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<blockquote data-quote="SergntMac" data-source="post: 2846676" data-attributes="member: 36158"><p>Go get a fresh beer, this is a long read...</p><p></p><p> Good points, Billy, and I agree with you. Do your remarks to the "single digit" poster include the opening post? Does your decision to disregard one member's words for specific reasons apply to posts from other members who meets similar secifications? No flames meant here, I'm just asking because of what others have posted. BTW, this is my "1st" post too, but it's not going to read any different than my years of posting at the MM.Net.</p><p></p><p>Briefly, I have my doubts about who authored the opening post, and I am rather surprised that y'all have taken it so seriously and shown it so much creditability, considering it's shortcomings. Y'all seem pretty sure who wrote it, and that what has been posted is factual, truthful, and presented in an honest light. Y'all give up a lot of credit here, credit y'all would not give up at the MM.Net, I am sure. Please stand by, I'll come back to this in a moment. I need to set the tone of my intent first.</p><p></p><p>I snipped this from another thread, it's from an administrator of this board, and it's relative to this discussion.</p><p> Well, imagine that...This board has a policy identical to the policy at our MM.Net! A policy that does not allow any vendor bashing, or, trouble from trolls. Logan has said many times, "you got a problem with a vendor, or, his product, deal with it privately" and I fully agree.</p><p></p><p>Very often, it's the membership at large who pulls the trigger on a troll, alerting moderators to an unfavorable post/thread. Yeah, <u>we</u> call the cops at the MM.Net, remember that. However, while this strict policy seems protective of bad, or, "special" vendors, it serves to lead the complaining consumer back to resolving his disappointment by other means, rather than just pitch a bit*h about it. Means that later resolve the issue, and very often recover/restore their financial investment. It's a good policy to have when running a message board. Like turning your guns over to the sheriff at the city limits, it keeps things <u>peaceful</u> in Dodge. It's the best advice for a disappointed consumer too, because it leads to resolution, and/or financial recovery.</p><p></p><p>If "Ted from Tulsa" is selling a junk product, crying about that on the web serves as a warning to others, yes. But, only for newer members and future customers. It doesn't do squat for you, or, the victims before you. To disallow the bashing should force you to find another resolution, or, "quityerbitchn'".</p><p></p><p>Keep in mind that consumers are not ideal customers either. Vendors get ripped too, and taking the next legal/proper step in resolving your complaint against a vendor tends to separate the whiners and crybabies from the folks with real problems.</p><p></p><p>With other issues in other worlds, playing by the rules of engagement that <u>apply to us all in the real world</u>, has led to class action lawsuits, and court approved judgements with full restitution.</p><p></p><p>You won't get satisfaction if you don't seek it, and bashing product, or, vendors in forums like this, is simply masturbation. Logan doesn't like it, Sid doesn't like it, I don't like it, and neither should any of y'all.</p><p></p><p>If you don't like something you bought from a vendor, or, it didn't arrive as you expected/got promised, or, didn't work as you expected/got promised, there are other means at your disposal to fix this. Maybe too many means, too many options, too many decisions for you to make before deciding your next step?</p><p></p><p>But...Bashing the product, or, the vendor on the Internet is <u>not</u> one of those options, and I cannot imagine the circumstances that would make bashing permissible. Okay, give me a minute on this, there may be one "maybe", I'll come back to this too...</p><p></p><p>I'm pleased with this boards policy. It's clearly stated that this is not an open forum for bashing of any sort.</p><p></p><p>This thread, started by a member as his number 1 post, comes very close to violating this board's policy. However, absent specific details such as names, dates, locations, and so on, it's rather lames too. It's also dubious, crafted by someone who knows just enough to start the ball rolling, and not come back. IMHO, looks like a lot of lucky guesses based on popular rumors that may have leaked out from an untrustworthy moderator somewhere, but so what too. Sh*t happens, so do sh*t people.</p><p></p><p>For some reason, some of y'all are absolutely positive you know the author.</p><p></p><p>Is this because you know the facts behind this thinly veiled threat?, or, is it because there's enough real meat in this post to feed a handful of Internet vultures? Excuse me one minute...</p><p></p><p>Also lifted from that other thread...</p><p>Finding the truth in things has been my life's mission. For 29 years now, I've put people in jail by finding truth. I put two on Death Row. I've kept countless innocent people out of jail, and more off Death Row as well. I know what "knowing the truth" means, and what it means to me.</p><p></p><p>Though I did not always produce evidence others agreed with, I did produce evidence. Hard copy, things you can "see" for yourself, "touch", "feel", and "know" they exist. How you view it, well, it's your eyes. But, <u>you got something to look at</u>, something tangible. Not just a rumor.</p><p></p><p>The "truth" can be elusive at times, a matter of perspective. I've had two witnesses testify against each other with opposite stories, and both telling the truth. I try to be as certain and sure in my proof, and my truth, as anyone living in Florida who says "I smell Hurricane a comin' ".Thanks for the invite, here's my truth.</p><p></p><p>I bought my first MM in June of '02 and as an early buyer, I paid premium sticker, plus a state luxury tax for 35K plus automobiles. This was a 41K purchase.</p><p></p><p>I ghosted at the MM.Net from day one, and got a screen name after Nov. '02. When I hit 3000 miles, I got a promise of support from my dealer, and I started buying mods. By then, there was a "contractor" visiting the MM.Net on a regular basis. He came around offering "gears", "UD pulleys", "chip", "stat", "Denso plugs". I don't remember the order in which thngs spilled out, but I do remember that his main point, was that we <u>can</u> mod our Marauders, and <u>how</u>. That we had things <u>we could do</u> to improve performance. It wasn't just about him selling us stuff.</p><p></p><p>I called him dozens of times, never ordered anything, just asked stupid questions, and got straightforward answers. Yes...A few times he got short with me, cut me off. A few times we argued, hung up on each other.</p><p></p><p>I was conflicted. I owned a brand new car on the market, and it was expensive. It pleased me very much, but also disappointed me. I loved it, and hated it. My Marauder, what to do...</p><p></p><p>It was then that I tried his shoes for size, and realized he's running a business, not a school. I wasn't going to get a degree in Marauder by calling him. Twice, I had very serious questions about stuff, novice that I was at the time, and I sent him checks to pay for his time tutoring me on specifics. He took the first two checks, sent the other two back. His message attached said "trust me, do this".</p><p></p><p>I called him, told him I can't trust him, it's the Internet. Said I was a cop, people lie to me everyday, yet we made a deal.</p><p></p><p>I would buy (without discount) every mod he offers, install it, and do an honest report "from the field". "Beta testing". If dyno numbers are inolved, I would dyno before and after. If "seat-of-the-pants" stuff was involved, I would take it to a race track, or, do what I can do to verify results. Either way, I'll tell the truth. Whether right or wrong, I'll post my results. This "contractor" said "go for it, get busy". I did.</p><p></p><p>I started with 4:10 gears, stat, Densos and single stage chip. My order was at my door UPS in 24 hours, and in my car 24 hours after that. I did responsible <u>before and after dynos</u> on each mod, and proved this "contractor" right on all counts. <u>I</u>. <u>Me.</u> <u>SergntMac@aol.com</u> named this initial series of mods our <u>Stage 1</u>. I called back and asked, LOL..."what's in Stage II?" He said "what's stage II?"</p><p></p><p>By then, "UD pulleys." Yep they work. "PI Stallion torque converter". Yep again, and Holy sh*t! Next? "Driveshaft...Maybe tail shaft lube, call me" and this became Stage II. It went on from there, and through many many mods brought to us by this "contractor".</p><p></p><p>Not once has this "contractor" failed me. Not once has he duped me. Not one has his promise of performance, or, safety improvements not reached my Marauder. Not only my first MM, but my second MM, where his advice continues to help me build my Marauder despite it's origins in a competitor's garage. I dream how I want it to be, this contractor helps me get there. No problems with my VISA card either, charges in, charges out, never a scrap over the numbers. Never.</p><p></p><p>Yes, we still argue. Yes, we still call each other names, and still hang up on each other. Y'all need to deal with this, K? It's not proper, nor good business, but it happens. Nonetheless, it does not deserve any web bashing. If you can't work it out, call another vendor. The best lesson for any vendor, is no more business, right?</p><p></p><p>I said I would come back to two points. Okay, I will.</p><p></p><p>1) I don't believe the opening post here is genuine. I believe so because I spoke with your "victim" myself this past Thursday, October 20, 2005. It was early, before noon, he and his brother were sitting down to breakfast.</p><p></p><p>We spoke for about an hour, and discussed a lot of things about him, his Marauder, the "contractor" and his negotiations with him.</p><p></p><p>He clearly stated to me that all of his concerns were presented to the "contractor", and all had been <u>resolved</u>. He clearly stated to me that he had heard rumors of his complaints, and promised me that he would <u>not</u>, and <u>never intended to</u>, post anything about this on the Internet. He said it all of it so well, I am convinced he told med the truth.</p><p></p><p>2) Your "victim" has resolved his issues with your "contractor", and I mean all of them, and as early as 10/4/2005. Check the dates here, eh?</p><p></p><p>As you parse out what insults you, whether it be overall mileage, visits to the race track, a blown engine fixed without any expense to the owner, or other stuff like "I've met you, you're a great guy and I totally respect your opinion", it's possibly all bogus, just like complaints about running red lights...Ah Geeze...</p><p></p><p>Note...I have been told that <u>all issues have been resolved</u> byyour victim. And, he has told me of his 4000 dollar refund, 1050 dollars of which are in his pocket as I type this now.</p><p></p><p>Knowing this, I cannot resist challenging this opening post, or, it's author.</p><p></p><p>There's just too much sh*t in this game.</p><p></p><p>Sorry, y'all for the long post, but it just spills out of me when I see too much crap called honest, and too much BS called truth.</p><p></p><p>Y'all aren't really this stupid, are you?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="SergntMac, post: 2846676, member: 36158"] Go get a fresh beer, this is a long read... Good points, Billy, and I agree with you. Do your remarks to the "single digit" poster include the opening post? Does your decision to disregard one member's words for specific reasons apply to posts from other members who meets similar secifications? No flames meant here, I'm just asking because of what others have posted. BTW, this is my "1st" post too, but it's not going to read any different than my years of posting at the MM.Net. Briefly, I have my doubts about who authored the opening post, and I am rather surprised that y'all have taken it so seriously and shown it so much creditability, considering it's shortcomings. Y'all seem pretty sure who wrote it, and that what has been posted is factual, truthful, and presented in an honest light. Y'all give up a lot of credit here, credit y'all would not give up at the MM.Net, I am sure. Please stand by, I'll come back to this in a moment. I need to set the tone of my intent first. I snipped this from another thread, it's from an administrator of this board, and it's relative to this discussion. Well, imagine that...This board has a policy identical to the policy at our MM.Net! A policy that does not allow any vendor bashing, or, trouble from trolls. Logan has said many times, "you got a problem with a vendor, or, his product, deal with it privately" and I fully agree. Very often, it's the membership at large who pulls the trigger on a troll, alerting moderators to an unfavorable post/thread. Yeah, [U]we[/U] call the cops at the MM.Net, remember that. However, while this strict policy seems protective of bad, or, "special" vendors, it serves to lead the complaining consumer back to resolving his disappointment by other means, rather than just pitch a bit*h about it. Means that later resolve the issue, and very often recover/restore their financial investment. It's a good policy to have when running a message board. Like turning your guns over to the sheriff at the city limits, it keeps things [U]peaceful[/U] in Dodge. It's the best advice for a disappointed consumer too, because it leads to resolution, and/or financial recovery. If "Ted from Tulsa" is selling a junk product, crying about that on the web serves as a warning to others, yes. But, only for newer members and future customers. It doesn't do squat for you, or, the victims before you. To disallow the bashing should force you to find another resolution, or, "quityerbitchn'". Keep in mind that consumers are not ideal customers either. Vendors get ripped too, and taking the next legal/proper step in resolving your complaint against a vendor tends to separate the whiners and crybabies from the folks with real problems. With other issues in other worlds, playing by the rules of engagement that [U]apply to us all in the real world[/U], has led to class action lawsuits, and court approved judgements with full restitution. You won't get satisfaction if you don't seek it, and bashing product, or, vendors in forums like this, is simply masturbation. Logan doesn't like it, Sid doesn't like it, I don't like it, and neither should any of y'all. If you don't like something you bought from a vendor, or, it didn't arrive as you expected/got promised, or, didn't work as you expected/got promised, there are other means at your disposal to fix this. Maybe too many means, too many options, too many decisions for you to make before deciding your next step? But...Bashing the product, or, the vendor on the Internet is [U]not[/U] one of those options, and I cannot imagine the circumstances that would make bashing permissible. Okay, give me a minute on this, there may be one "maybe", I'll come back to this too... I'm pleased with this boards policy. It's clearly stated that this is not an open forum for bashing of any sort. This thread, started by a member as his number 1 post, comes very close to violating this board's policy. However, absent specific details such as names, dates, locations, and so on, it's rather lames too. It's also dubious, crafted by someone who knows just enough to start the ball rolling, and not come back. IMHO, looks like a lot of lucky guesses based on popular rumors that may have leaked out from an untrustworthy moderator somewhere, but so what too. Sh*t happens, so do sh*t people. For some reason, some of y'all are absolutely positive you know the author. Is this because you know the facts behind this thinly veiled threat?, or, is it because there's enough real meat in this post to feed a handful of Internet vultures? Excuse me one minute... Also lifted from that other thread... Finding the truth in things has been my life's mission. For 29 years now, I've put people in jail by finding truth. I put two on Death Row. I've kept countless innocent people out of jail, and more off Death Row as well. I know what "knowing the truth" means, and what it means to me. Though I did not always produce evidence others agreed with, I did produce evidence. Hard copy, things you can "see" for yourself, "touch", "feel", and "know" they exist. How you view it, well, it's your eyes. But, [U]you got something to look at[/U], something tangible. Not just a rumor. The "truth" can be elusive at times, a matter of perspective. I've had two witnesses testify against each other with opposite stories, and both telling the truth. I try to be as certain and sure in my proof, and my truth, as anyone living in Florida who says "I smell Hurricane a comin' ".Thanks for the invite, here's my truth. I bought my first MM in June of '02 and as an early buyer, I paid premium sticker, plus a state luxury tax for 35K plus automobiles. This was a 41K purchase. I ghosted at the MM.Net from day one, and got a screen name after Nov. '02. When I hit 3000 miles, I got a promise of support from my dealer, and I started buying mods. By then, there was a "contractor" visiting the MM.Net on a regular basis. He came around offering "gears", "UD pulleys", "chip", "stat", "Denso plugs". I don't remember the order in which thngs spilled out, but I do remember that his main point, was that we [U]can[/U] mod our Marauders, and [U]how[/U]. That we had things [U]we could do[/U] to improve performance. It wasn't just about him selling us stuff. I called him dozens of times, never ordered anything, just asked stupid questions, and got straightforward answers. Yes...A few times he got short with me, cut me off. A few times we argued, hung up on each other. I was conflicted. I owned a brand new car on the market, and it was expensive. It pleased me very much, but also disappointed me. I loved it, and hated it. My Marauder, what to do... It was then that I tried his shoes for size, and realized he's running a business, not a school. I wasn't going to get a degree in Marauder by calling him. Twice, I had very serious questions about stuff, novice that I was at the time, and I sent him checks to pay for his time tutoring me on specifics. He took the first two checks, sent the other two back. His message attached said "trust me, do this". I called him, told him I can't trust him, it's the Internet. Said I was a cop, people lie to me everyday, yet we made a deal. I would buy (without discount) every mod he offers, install it, and do an honest report "from the field". "Beta testing". If dyno numbers are inolved, I would dyno before and after. If "seat-of-the-pants" stuff was involved, I would take it to a race track, or, do what I can do to verify results. Either way, I'll tell the truth. Whether right or wrong, I'll post my results. This "contractor" said "go for it, get busy". I did. I started with 4:10 gears, stat, Densos and single stage chip. My order was at my door UPS in 24 hours, and in my car 24 hours after that. I did responsible [U]before and after dynos[/U] on each mod, and proved this "contractor" right on all counts. [U]I[/U]. [U]Me.[/U] [U]SergntMac@aol.com[/U] named this initial series of mods our [U]Stage 1[/U]. I called back and asked, LOL..."what's in Stage II?" He said "what's stage II?" By then, "UD pulleys." Yep they work. "PI Stallion torque converter". Yep again, and Holy sh*t! Next? "Driveshaft...Maybe tail shaft lube, call me" and this became Stage II. It went on from there, and through many many mods brought to us by this "contractor". Not once has this "contractor" failed me. Not once has he duped me. Not one has his promise of performance, or, safety improvements not reached my Marauder. Not only my first MM, but my second MM, where his advice continues to help me build my Marauder despite it's origins in a competitor's garage. I dream how I want it to be, this contractor helps me get there. No problems with my VISA card either, charges in, charges out, never a scrap over the numbers. Never. Yes, we still argue. Yes, we still call each other names, and still hang up on each other. Y'all need to deal with this, K? It's not proper, nor good business, but it happens. Nonetheless, it does not deserve any web bashing. If you can't work it out, call another vendor. The best lesson for any vendor, is no more business, right? I said I would come back to two points. Okay, I will. 1) I don't believe the opening post here is genuine. I believe so because I spoke with your "victim" myself this past Thursday, October 20, 2005. It was early, before noon, he and his brother were sitting down to breakfast. We spoke for about an hour, and discussed a lot of things about him, his Marauder, the "contractor" and his negotiations with him. He clearly stated to me that all of his concerns were presented to the "contractor", and all had been [U]resolved[/U]. He clearly stated to me that he had heard rumors of his complaints, and promised me that he would [U]not[/U], and [U]never intended to[/U], post anything about this on the Internet. He said it all of it so well, I am convinced he told med the truth. 2) Your "victim" has resolved his issues with your "contractor", and I mean all of them, and as early as 10/4/2005. Check the dates here, eh? As you parse out what insults you, whether it be overall mileage, visits to the race track, a blown engine fixed without any expense to the owner, or other stuff like "I've met you, you're a great guy and I totally respect your opinion", it's possibly all bogus, just like complaints about running red lights...Ah Geeze... Note...I have been told that [U]all issues have been resolved[/U] byyour victim. And, he has told me of his 4000 dollar refund, 1050 dollars of which are in his pocket as I type this now. Knowing this, I cannot resist challenging this opening post, or, it's author. There's just too much sh*t in this game. Sorry, y'all for the long post, but it just spills out of me when I see too much crap called honest, and too much BS called truth. Y'all aren't really this stupid, are you? [/QUOTE]
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