A few questions about tracking my car @ the open course

[Venomous01]

What are the 2 most important gauges for track duty? I know water tep is important but can you guys give me some others?

I am getting my car ready for some track duty with a set of gauges to help me monitor the car as well as a set of 6 piston Wilwood brakes with 14" slotted and cross drilled rotors and a set of Wilwood rear brakes and brake cooling ducts. I will be getting some DSS level 5's but thats mainly just a pre-cautionary measure for the drag or under hard launches. I don't drag the car, but I have dragged my old 01 Cobra and blew the rear end. I'm not looking to do it again under a hard launch.

Also how do whipple cobras fair in terms of the cars diagnostics during an open course run? I am pretty sure I addressed the cooling and I am only looking to run my street tune at the open course I just want to make sure I cover all ends of the spectrum here.

 

[ac427cobra]

What are the 2 most important gauges for track duty? I know water tep is important but can you guys give me some others?

I'm assuming this is NOT your '01 you're talking about?

I would say coolant and engine oil are your two biggest concerns right now? If you're driving the car hard on track and your sessions are longer than 15-20 minutes you should have a diff cooler also. Be prepared to overheat the motor if you're going to be driving hard unless you have upgraded cooling mods?

IMHO the upgraded halfshafts are a waste of money for your application! :idea:

You will certianly have enough brakes, just don't over use them?!?! :read:

Good Luck!

:thumbsup: :coolman: :beer:

 

[99COBRA2881]

First line of business is to ditch the **bling**tastic cross drilled and slotted rotors. Once you learn how to drive the car hard they will crack on you, get some stock Brembo rotors for $59 each from tirerack.com. Rotors are a disposable item and the less money you spend on them the more is left for good brake pads. I'd take a stock rotor with say Carbotech XP10s over the more expensive cross drilled/slotted rotor with lesser brake pads every time.
SS brake lines are also a must have, especially on a KB'd heavy 04. That's alot of HP pushing alot of weight, slowing down fast is much more important than going fast.

As for guages, I run Autometer oil temp and pressure guages, along with a water temp guage. Having real guages on track is a great comfort over the pray nothings really wrong stock guages.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Water temp and oil pressure...

Or just show up and learn all you can learn...
The more seat time you get the more things you will find to spend money on and the better equipped you will be to make those decisions.

Open track cars are always going to be some kind of compromise. Some people run full blown race cars and trailer them in... many others drive to the track maybe only doing a pad change(everyone changes the brake fluid)...

And there are those in between... That is one of the really cool things about our hobby(addiction)... you get to decide how street able of a set up you want to use.

You will soon see that there are some incredibly fast Terminators(and others) with just a cat back, cold air and some cooling mods...

It is hard for some of us car guys to just show up and drive...(trust me I am one of them)
We tend to obsess about being as prepared as we possibly can be.

Yet it will be far better if you get your first runs in with a fairly stock car(a little late for that I know)... It will be a more powerfull training tool... and the driver mod will kick in sooner.

My first two events all I had was a K&N drop in, SFCs, brake cooling ducts... and of course the required fresh fluid and pads.

Bring a positive attitude, come to learn, don't worry about who is faster or slower than you, let your instructor help you along.

If he says "that's enough brake" trust him/her... I got a lot of that at my first event... It was pretty scary at first turning the car while still going that fast...

Having your head in the right place will go a long way to insuring you have a VERY FUN TIME!!!

You may find you like it so much that you have to budget for several sets of tires and brakepads a year.

And then there is pit gear...lol:rollseyes

 

[Cobra-R]

I have a slightly different opinion. I say Oil pressure and oil temperature. Oil temperature is actually a better indicator of what is happening inside your engine. I have both on my race car and when my oil temp is high, the water temp isn't necessarily high.

Besides, on your car, the computer is going to monitor coolant temp and put you into limp mode if it gets too high.

I agree with 99COBRA2881, those brakes are way more than you need at this point. Throw some good pads in there and bleed them and you are good to go.

Brian

 

[BlackStripes]

First line of business is to ditch the **bling**tastic cross drilled and slotted rotors.

Agreed!!! I am surprised that nobody at Wilwood told you that. Those rotors are for street use.

I always have an extra set of pads, rotors (and hats) and brake fluid handy.

Remember, in order to have fun, you most likely want to drive your car home. I only have a GT, but is still a heavy car, brakes get killed easy!! When i didnt have my brake cooling, i toasted a set of rotors in 2 days..:bash: ... and believe me, those rotors are not cheap!!

About your question, i'd say @ least coolant and oil temp gauges. I blew my first engine, so i am stupid about it. I have 6 gauges

Good luck, i am sure you will get hooked!!

BTW. What tires do you have?

 

[Venomous01]

Agreed!!! I am surprised that nobody at Wilwood told you that. Those rotors are for street use.

I always have an extra set of pads, rotors (and hats) and brake fluid handy.

Remember, in order to have fun, you most likely want to drive your car home. I only have a GT, but is still a heavy car, brakes get killed easy!! When i didnt have my brake cooling, i toasted a set of rotors in 2 days..:bash: ... and believe me, those rotors are not cheap!!

About your question, i'd say @ least coolant and oil temp gauges. I blew my first engine, so i am stupid about it. I have 6 gauges

Good luck, i am sure you will get hooked!!

BTW. What tires do you have?

Thanks for the input all. I actually wish this was towards the 01 cobra it would be a better track car then my 04 IMO. I have Nitto555DRs out back and KDW's in the front.

I like the opinions on the gauges and brakes and I will definitely consider them.:beer:

 

[nightstalker865]

Like everyone else is saying stay away from the drilled rotors. Slotted are fine.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Thanks for the input all. I actually wish this was towards the 01 cobra it would be a better track car then my 04 IMO. I have Nitto555DRs out back and KDW's in the front.

I like the opinions on the gauges and brakes and I will definitely consider them.:beer:

If you have a real water temp gauge.. you can make adjustments to your driving(like shifting up early and milking a few straights to cool down) that will prevent the crippling onset of the DREADED LIMP MODE!!!

The car is going push like a biotch with that tire combo.. Which is not a terrible thing for new drivers(that is not an insult... track is so different from street driving that you will find yourself referring to yourself as new no matter how long you have been driving cars on the street)... But IMHO the factory understeer(push) is more than enough from a safety stand point. I think you will learn the cars balance and learn car control quicker with a matched set of street tires.
A couple friends in the club(SCMC) started out running that set up(only with a less sticky front tire)... and they both eventually agreed it was too much under steer.

Dissimilar front and rear tires can complicate the learning curve... It does not make it impossible but... it's almost like having training wheels when having sticker rears on... The "tuned for the lowest common denominator" factory balance is made even safer when the rear tires have that much more grip than the fronts.

IMHO unless the car is just too damned scary.... I would run the same rubber on all 4 corners... You have to learn how to drive to the tire's grip level anyway.... whether you have 300, 400 or 600 RWHP they are only going to take just so much.

It will force you to learn excellent throttle control techniques earlier that way.

Which is critically important with a car sporting that much low end torque!
You will learn that the semi gentle "roll on throttle" method is the only way to fly when tracking ... even when throttle oversteer is needed.

 

[Venomous01]

What are you track guys running as a thermostat? 180 or 160? I currently run a 160, but I am seriously thinking of moving back to the stock 180 again.

 

[ac427cobra]

Some/most groups putting on track events won't even let you on the track with drag radials! :idea: :read:

I'd look for a complete set of identical tires you can rotate to all four corners of your car! :-D Keeping them rotated after every other session at the least!

 

[Cobra-R]

What are you track guys running as a thermostat? 180 or 160? I currently run a 160, but I am seriously thinking of moving back to the stock 180 again.

Makes no difference whats so ever. You will be above either thermostats threshold on the track.

Like I said, oil temp is much more represenitive of what is happening inside the engine than coolant temp.

Brian

 

[Venomous01]

Makes no difference whats so ever. You will be above either thermostats threshold on the track.

Like I said, oil temp is much more represenitive of what is happening inside the engine than coolant temp.

Brian

I was wondering b/c I was datalogging while driving for a little over 30 minutes straight with about 4-5 bursts and the entire time my coolant temps were in the 170-174 range, most consistently 172. I will be ordering an oil temp gauge and a water temp gauge ASAP and installing them in the saleen gauge pod. I am VERY cautious with everything and I like to be able to monitor the important vitals of the car (Boost, Fuel Pressure, Wideband A/F, Water Temp, Oil Temp).

As far as brakes go I was thinking of going with Wilwood slotted rotors then. They have replacement outer pieces that are fairly cheap and I really want the 6 piston. More stopping power is always a good thing and I definitely need to upgrade my brakes, b/c my stock setup just isn't cutting it.

The level 5 halfshafts have nothing to do with open track racing my car, it's mainly for when and if I want to drag the car a few times, which is still TBD, but I want them. I have blown the IRS up before and would rather not do it again and I don't want to go solid b/c well I like the handling of the IRS and it definitely takes turns better IMO.

You guys are definitely putting me in my place and I can definitely respect that. Thanks for the great feedback thus far.

 

[BlackStripes]

I am VERY cautious with everything and I like to be able to monitor the important vitals of the car (Boost, Fuel Pressure, Wideband A/F, Water Temp, Oil Temp).

My Car :dw:

As far as brakes go I was thinking of going with Wilwood slotted rotors then. They have replacement outer pieces that are fairly cheap and I really want the 6 piston. More stopping power is always a good thing and I definitely need to upgrade my brakes, b/c my stock setup just isn't cutting it.

I bought my kit and my extra set of rotors from http://www.tceperformanceproducts.com/contact.html . Top notch customer service !!

 

[BlackBolt9]

My Car :dw:

Holy gauges Batman :lol1:

 

[Venomous01]

My Car :dw:

That's what my car will look like soon! minus the 3 gauges on the pillar. I only have 2 on the pillar and 1 on the steering mount. 2 more to go!!!

 

[ac427cobra]

My Car :dw:

Monitoring ALL of that would be a distraction IMHO. :read:

 

[CPViolation]

Water temp and oil pressure...

Or just show up and learn all you can learn...
The more seat time you get the more things you will find to spend money on and the better equipped you will be to make those decisions.

Open track cars are always going to be some kind of compromise. Some people run full blown race cars and trailer them in... many others drive to the track maybe only doing a pad change(everyone changes the brake fluid)...

And there are those in between... That is one of the really cool things about our hobby(addiction)... you get to decide how street able of a set up you want to use.

You will soon see that there are some incredibly fast Terminators(and others) with just a cat back, cold air and some cooling mods...

It is hard for some of us car guys to just show up and drive...(trust me I am one of them)
We tend to obsess about being as prepared as we possibly can be.

Yet it will be far better if you get your first runs in with a fairly stock car(a little late for that I know)... It will be a more powerfull training tool... and the driver mod will kick in sooner.

My first two events all I had was a K&N drop in, SFCs, brake cooling ducts... and of course the required fresh fluid and pads.

Bring a positive attitude, come to learn, don't worry about who is faster or slower than you, let your instructor help you along.

If he says "that's enough brake" trust him/her... I got a lot of that at my first event... It was pretty scary at first turning the car while still going that fast...

Having your head in the right place will go a long way to insuring you have a VERY FUN TIME!!!

You may find you like it so much that you have to budget for several sets of tires and brakepads a year.

And then there is pit gear...lol:rollseyes

Jimmy,
AC427, Shelby Guy, PacoTaco (we know who you are) you and a few others helped me out before my first OT event.
Thanks
I think driving your car stock is a great way to start.
Now, I've gone too far. At least I still have insulation, stereo and air.. ;-)

Buttonwillow 11/06

\

 

[Venomous01]

I am investigating and researching temps on my car. I know there is a window and anything less or more can substantially increase the wear on the engine. So I was cruising around last night and today datalogging the IATs and Engine Coolant Temp.

Here is what I saw:
Last night (cool night)
Engine Coolant Temp was 170-176
IATs were ~ 60 degrees cruising and ~90 degrees @ WOT

Today (moderately warm w cool breeze)
Engine Coolant Temp was 172-174 @ idle and 176-186 cruising and w/ a couple WOT blasts
IATs were about 80-90 cruising and 120-130 @ WOT

My question is are these coolant temps too low? I am running a 160 stat and I am thinking of going to a 180 to raise the temps. I always let the car warm up before I get into boost of drive it hard. My setup has proven to be incredibly efficient when it comes to cooling and the temps drop drastically after a WOT blast.

With a being the lowest possible safe temp and z being the highest possible safe temp:

What is the ideal range a-z for oil temp?
What is the ideal range a-z for engine coolant temp?
What is the ideal range a-z for iat temp?

Thoughts? I have a feeling you guys can help me out with this one.

 

[ac427cobra]

I am investigating and researching temps on my car. I know there is a window and anything less or more can substantially increase the wear on the engine. So I was cruising around last night and today datalogging the IATs and Engine Coolant Temp.

Here is what I saw:
Last night (cool night)
Engine Coolant Temp was 170-176
IATs were ~ 60 degrees cruising and ~90 degrees @ WOT

Today (moderately warm w cool breeze)
Engine Coolant Temp was 172-174 @ idle and 176-186 cruising and w/ a couple WOT blasts
IATs were about 80-90 cruising and 120-130 @ WOT

My question is are these coolant temps too low? I am running a 160 stat and I am thinking of going to a 180 to raise the temps. I always let the car warm up before I get into boost of drive it hard. My setup has proven to be incredibly efficient when it comes to cooling and the temps drop drastically after a WOT blast.

With a being the lowest possible safe temp and z being the highest possible safe temp:

What is the ideal range a-z for oil temp?
What is the ideal range a-z for engine coolant temp?
What is the ideal range a-z for iat temp?

Thoughts? I have a feeling you guys can help me out with this one.

Your temp test on the road doesn't hold much water. :read: When you're on the track your car is not necessarily traveling that fast. Meaning the cooling efficiency won't be what you're seeing in your test? Plus you will be driving in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears (posibly 5th) depending on the track? :idea: Remember you are at WOT about 80-90% of the time you're on track! :-D

Now to your temp questions. Your oil will typically run hotter than your coolant. A low of 200 and a high of 260. I don't like seeing oil go over 260. Mind you I've driven mine at 285 plus with Mobil 1 and it gives me the creeps!

Your coolant can run anywhere from 180 to 230. I'm pretty sure your car will start pulling timing somewhere around 220?

Can't help you on the IAT. My track car is N/A. And my Shelby was on the track in very cool weather and I don't/can't monitor IAT.

Hope that helps? YMMV


:thumbsup: :coolman: :beer: