monsTer touQue !

ive noticed that some people have monster tq numbers over hp.

for-instance ive seen
-385hp/415tq stock terminator
-460hp/505tq (lightning)
-460hp/600tq (samsLX stroker)
-550hp/590 kb cobra

basically what im trying to say is, how do people get these numbers???
h pipe? cats? ingraded clutch?

like the man Carroll Shelby said himself, "Horsepower sells cars, but torque wins races."

and i want to win races! :rockon:

i've wondered about this, too. but in 100% stock form, I made 379/363 sae....so hp was exceeding tq by 16.

added the 2.76, exhaust, tune and it flip flopped: 461/493 sae. tq now exceeding hp by 32!! peak pushed way down the curve, lots of tq right off idle now. it's awesome. my tuner did say a 2.76 would lay down more of a tq jolt than a 2.93, but I was amazed with the result after actually driving it

my hp/tq the same pretty much...my numbers are corrected

It really doesn't matter if you can't get it to the ground, my old car would turn my BFG's into black butter....

The question is, at what point is too much torque, well too much...?

Factory freaks and lower pulleys!

c6zhombre said:

i've wondered about this, too. but in 100% stock form, I made 379/363 sae....so hp was exceeding tq by 16.

added the 2.76, exhaust, tune and it flip flopped: 461/493 sae. tq now exceeding hp by 32!! peak pushed way down the curve, lots of tq right off idle now. it's awesome. my tuner did say a 2.76 would lay down more of a tq jolt than a 2.93, but I was amazed with the result after actually driving it

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you put down those numbers with a 2.7, exhaust and tune?
just a catback or with a midpipe? also what pullies did you decide to go with?

yellowgt02 said:

Factory freaks and lower pulleys!

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yea lower pullies would make sence.
heavy rotation makes more tq

Generally speaking, torque passes horse power when there is an inlet restriction or an inability for forced induction to keep up at the higher RPMs. Saw this often with stroker pushrods and stock/small heads. Likewise, Eaton cars with super small pulleys work great for the low and mid range, but when it gets to the upper range, they can't keep up. That's why you also see boost drop off.

yellowgt02 said:

Factory freaks and lower pulleys!

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And/or a wet shot. Nitrous makes tons of torque.

mr.jockstrap said:

you put down those numbers with a 2.7, exhaust and tune?
just a catback or with a midpipe? also what pullies did you decide to go with?

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yes, upper only Billetflow 2.76 with tensioner, magnaflow catback, magnaflow catted xpipe. manifolds are factory. blower factory unported. numbers are sae corrected. the shop that tuned it was a little surprised, not sure if it's the most they've ever seen out of a 2.76 upper only on their own dyno rollers, but they did say it was a wednesday motor, whatever that means. they told me up front before the dyno tune to expect about 430-440rwhp/460-470rwtq.

-385hp/415tq stock terminator
This is not normal, the HP is, but the torque is not. It could be clutch slip or tire slip. Also 415 Tq does not sound stock to me.:dw::shrug:

The boost drop off and the parasitic losses are what make higher torque common on a pullied Eaton car.

-550hp/590 kb cobra
This car however, being a twin screw, has some kind of problem, belt slip, clutch slip, tire slip, or something hurting top end, fuel delivery, :shrug: something is preventing the twin screw top end charge from making what they usually do at that level.

-460hp/505tq (lightning)
A pullied Lightning is a 5.4 torque monster anyway, so that one is fairly normal, it will be also affected by the same boost drop off we see on our 4.6 Eaton cars too.

Here is my dyno sheet:

2.3 Whipple twin screw @ 13 pounds(3.50 upper pulley/stk lower) very conservative endurance style 93 octane tune. Stock manifolds, cats and H pipe. FR500 quiet exhaust(now discontinued)



Torque does move things, therefore it is a VERY DESIRABLE characteristic for a heavy car, but if you can retain the torque and also have higher HP you are able to do the same work in a shorter period of time.

Traction limitations are something all of us have to deal with.
Some run stickies all the time, some just roll into the throttle, and only give it what the street tires will put down.

I fall into the later category, I can't even imagine what all the 15 and 17 pound twin screw guys do to get rolling, probably a combo of stickies and pedaling.

Hey Jimmy I went out for my first autocross experience today and it was awesome. I was definitely doing a lot of peddling out there in second gear. This is a tough car to toss through the cones. After 5 runs through the cones I managed to drop my time down 4 seconds. I am running my whipple at about 15 to 16lbs of boost and it was definitely a handful.

You got enough tourqe, when you can spin the tires at a 100 mph.

Silverboost said:

Hey Jimmy I went out for my first autocross experience today and it was awesome. I was definitely doing a lot of peddling out there in second gear. This is a tough car to toss through the cones. After 5 runs through the cones I managed to drop my time down 4 seconds. I am running my whipple at about 15 to 16lbs of boost and it was definitely a handful.

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Autocross is a great outlet, and a really fun time. These cars are so heavy though, that we get whooped by lighter cars, some even with a weaker power to weight ration.

Don't let it get to you, the car is a little out of it's element on a very tight course.
On the streets and highway, or better yet a road course with at least one or two sweepers and at least one generous straight, it's a totally different game!
Even bone stock, these cars KICK ASS! Once the driver has learned how to get out of it, what the stock car is capable of giving.
In the beginning the car means next to nothing and it is nearly all a matter of how quickly the driver learns.

Pretty much all the sanctioning bodies all require roll over protection for verts now, so I do don't push vert owners as hard as I used to, to give "tracking" a try. For some folks a roll bar is a "not now, not ever" type of deal breaker, and I understand that.

A bolt in bar, if you decide to give open tracking a go, could be removed, and it would be advisable to do so if there are back seat occupants on a regular basis.

And now back to our regularly scheduled program, already in progress!:-D:beer:

Remember that hp is just torque X rpm, so higher torque than hp is indicating higher amounts of power lower in the bands. This is not necessarily a good thing... it is an indicator that efficiency or the flow of the overall system is dropping off at higher rpms, which is frequently the case on an overspun Eaton.

Torque surpasses the Hp when the supercharger is going past its level of efficiency

Am I the only one that laughs when I read "...pass the efficiency of the blower.." but yet its still putting down tons of TQ? The definition of efficient is "Exhibiting a high ratio of output to input." So with that how is it passing its efficiency?

I made 580hp and 630tq with a KN&N FIPK, JLT RAI, Accufab port matched plenum and throttle body, ported blower, bassani headers, no cats, magnaflow exhaust, 2.8 upper, 3lb lower, and a 100shot. I wouldn't say there is a lick of restriction both intake or exhaust.

With out the spray the car makes 500/500. So I would say the spray makes the TQ.



I also seen that people with catalytic converters seem to run higher TQ than HP.

When you start factoring spray into the equation you are talking about a whole different animal. I don't believe in your situation the with the torque being much higher than horsepower with the spray is showing an inefficiency. Most people on here are referring to single power adders like a blower or turbo. The only reason twin screws most of the time make more horsepower than torque is due to the fact as rpm's climb they continue to make power where the eaton falls off.

thats very interesting looking at jimmy's 13psi whipple dyno...I'm actually making more low end and peak tq with a 13psi unported eaton....but he makes way more top end hp. I guess thats the efficiency factor past say 4500 rpms.

The saying"Wednesday Motor" or "Wednesday Car" is a good thing and a reference to the motor being strong and possibly being built on a Wednesday as opposed to early in the week or late. Theory is that the builder does a better job in the middle of the week as opposed to being hung over on a Monday morning or concentrating more on getting home on a Friday. Congrats on your Wedneday motor!

boosted2000si said:

... So with that how is it passing its efficiency? ...

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The eaton will begin to over spin and produce TONS of heat and the dyno graph will start to dive quickly the more heat it makes.