12mm vs. 14mm vs. 9/16"

GodStang

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I have gotten a lot of questions on this so I decided to get some info together and will keep adding as I get more. Most if not all 99-04 Cobras with IRS come with a 12mm 10.9 (grade 8 equivalent) in the front of their irs were it connects to the frame. A common upgrade is to get 14mm bolts and replace the 12mm. I was getting ready to upgrade to MM subframe bushings. We were in the store with the front bushing sleeve seeing how well the 14mm fit. It fit a whole lot better than the 12mm. Well as we started to leave my dad grabbed a 9/16" (14.2875mm) bolt and slid it in and it fit perfect. No slop. Well some people asked what is the difference besides less movement of the irs to help get rid of the clunk. So I ran some calculations. Hope this helps.

tension_shear.gif


Tensile Strength of a Grade 8 bolt (10.9 Metric) is 150,000 lbs per square inch.

12mm: 0.1753007in^2 X 150,000 lbs/in^2 = 26295.105lbs

14mm: 0.2386044in^2 X 150,000 lbs/in^2 = 35790.66lbs

9/16in: 0.2485042in^2 X 150,000 lbs/in^2 = 37275.63lbs

So for tensile strength 14mm has 9495.555lbs more than the 12mm and the 9/16" has 1484.97lbs more than the 14mm and 10980.525lbs more than the stock 12mm.

In our application we are more interested in Shear strength then in Tensile strength. Shear strength of a Grade 8 bolt (10.9 Metric) is around 60% of the tensile strength. We are going to use 91,000 lbs per square inch since that is what a lot of people were using.

12mm: 0.1753007in^2 X 91,000 lbs/in^2 = 15952.3637lbs

14mm: 0.2386044in^2 X 91,000 lbs/in^2 = 21713.0004lbs

9/16in: 0.2485042in^2 X 91,000 lbs/in^2 = 22613.8822lbs


So for Shear strength 14mm has 5760.6367lbs more than the 12mm and the 9/16" has 900.8818lbs more than the 14mm and 6661.5185lbs more than the stock 12mm.

I know some people have mentioned NAS bolts. I have looked every where for these bolts and the best I can find is $250 a piece online so I will not be using these on my car. I feel that the 9/16" grade 8 is more than adequate in strength and in size to minimize clunk and help improve the IRS.

Now I am also doing research for a better bolt to go in the top of the IRS so that I will not have to file down head to fit 10.5 rims. Alot of people are complaining about the MM low profile head not being able to be torqued well. Right now the best I can find is $159 for 1 bolt.

Please feel free to ask questions and add info.

Here some pics of the bolts and bushings:

These are the MM bushings with the sleeves notice how two sleeves are narrower then the other two. The narrow two go up top and are 12mm.
Subframebushings.jpg


Here is the stock 12mm neck to the new 9/16"
Stock9-16.jpg


Here is the 9/16" and nut
9-16.jpg


Proof of grade 8
Grade-8.jpg
 
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mblgjr

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Glad you decided to address this in a proper manner.

Keep us updated on the uppers. I'd love to have a low profile head back there that can be torqued better than the MM pieces.
 

1Quik46

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Does this mod really help the wheel hop situation? I guess Im asking if its worth the trouble? Thanks for the great info!
 

Kevin the Clean 1

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GodStang,

Do you think I need the lower profile bolts...? :shrug:

I'm going to be putting 18"x10 BBS RK wheels on the back with a Michellin Pilot Sports 2 tires in a 295 width! :shrug:

Thanks! :beer:
 

Kevin the Clean 1

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GodStang,

One more thing bud. I think me should call MM & let them know that we could possiibly make there good bolts even better. You should send them a link to this thread... Just my .02 cents! :beer:
 

rtusnake

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Glad you showed how long the bolt is. Didn't feel like taking one out and heading to the hardware store. Tried ace today and they was out of the 4". Going to lowes tomorrow
 

JPIStang

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Looks like a plan. IMO any slack that can be removed from the IRS will make an improvment. Personally I think the IRS subframe should be welded to the car instead of using bushings. LOL

I'll have to head to marshalls when I can to find the 9/16ths.

My advice for the MM bolts. Use a new bolt every time and buy extras. They are cheap. I think their bolts would be a LOT better if they were torx instead of hex. It has taken me about three sets before I was actually able to torque them down (not all at once).
 

69gt4speed

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Most any regular s.s bolt is only rated 102k and 65k psi. If you are worried about rusting put some neverseize on it. Most grade 8 have a better plating anyways to keep from rusting. Regular s.s. bolts/nuts gawl and are weak, less than a grade 5 or 8.8. I twist those a2-70 s.s. off a lot and have to use foodgrade neverseize on them anyway. They are for motorcycle covers, light load or food products.
 

AssPikle

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I found that the 12mm bolt takes an 18mm socket and the 14mm bolt takes a 21mm socket. Is this right? Just trying to make sure I have the smaller 12mm's before I order them. Thanks.
 

ac427cobra

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Kevin the Clean 1 said:
GodStang,

Do you think I need the lower profile bolts...? :shrug:

I'm going to be putting 18"x10 BBS RK wheels on the back with a Michellin Pilot Sports 2 tires in a 295 width! :shrug:

Thanks! :beer:

You're talking about the rear subframe bolt. This is the front subframe bolt!




rdksek844 said:
How likely is that bolt going to rust? Would a stainless bolt be better? Do they make a 9/16 12 Cap screw in stainless?

Stainless will not have the sheer strength of a Grade 8! :idea:
 

Kevin the Clean 1

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ac427cobra,

I really think we should send a link to this page over to MM (Maximum Motorsports). It would be cool if we helped them improve an already worthy upgrade to our IRS subframe... :beer:
 

AssPikle

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rdksek844 said:
I found that the 12mm bolt takes an 18mm socket and the 14mm bolt takes a 21mm socket. Is this right? Just trying to make sure I have the smaller 12mm's before I order them. Thanks.

Anyone??
 

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