API SM/SN certified engine oils, and why NOT to use them.

[UnleashedBeast]

Hey guys,

I decided to begin a new topic on this here because we really haven't focused on it. An email was sent to me by a friend who was concerned about another friend of his used oil analysis. He asked me to decipher what it means, and needless to say, I wasn't pleased with the results. Here is a picture of the UOA, and the quote below is the reply to his email.

Jody,

After reviewing the UOA report you sent me, I'm not surprised the results were abnormal. During this 1,500 mile oil use, he chose to use Mobil 1 10W-30 API SM. I have been preaching for months how I would never pour any API SM lubricant into any of my engines. Due too lower amounts of ZDDP in this formulation, his engine is showing significant amounts of wear at 10,500 miles of total use (Iron 41 ppm). His best choice to prevent future wear is an upgrade to a formulation that has much higher amounts of ZDDP. Any top tier 10W-30 100% synthetic like AMSOIL, Royal Purple, or Red Line (not a group III hydrocracked "fake" lubricant) oil manufactured under the API SL (or earlier SJ) standard would be an instant improvement. Time and time again we have UOA reports showing excessive wear metals from newer Mobil 1 formulations, but people still want to believe it's the great product it was 20 years ago. Sorry, sad to say, but this isn't true anymore. You honestly need to have him read the thread I'm going to post below about top tier lubricants versus mid grade off the shelf Mobil 1 "fake" synthetic.

Mustang 3V cam wear

The higher amounts of silicon (31 ppm) are probably due to an improperly oiled K&N filter. Normal readings here, with proper filtration, should be 15 ppm or less. It takes experience to get the oil amount right, and if not, will allow excessive particles to enter the engine, but that's still not a definite guaranteed improvement. His best bet would be to upgrade to a filter that does not require oil, but yet still flow enough CFM to handle an engine like the Terminator has. I would suggest AMSOIL's EaO air filters. The nano fiber technology will filter the air at lower micron levels, yet maintain high CFM flow.

If you, or the person who has the car from this UOA have any questions, drop me an email.

Troy

Don't know how much louder I have to yell this, but people just don't listen. I asked my friend if the Terminator owner upgraded to a better lubricant to stop the excessive wear on his engine. His reply...

"No, he is still convinced that the current formulations of Mobil 1 are the best offered anywhere, by any company."

Yeah, again needless to say, I'm want to do this to a terminator owner.....

oke: "Think with your dip stick Jimmy!"

 

[rdsnk46]

I run the Ford Synth. ???

 

[UnleashedBeast]

I run the Ford Synth. ???

You do....and it's an API SM certified formulation (low ZDDP).

Yet another reason, beyond the shearing, to run away from it.

 

[rdsnk46]

Now I know.......why would Ford recommend it?

 

[GTSpartan]

As a statisitics fan, I don't see how one oil test can possibly determine which oils are good and which are bad. Way too many variables at play that we cannot control with a single test.

Ford does all of their durability testing with their oils, which is more than 99.9999% of owners will ever need. The mighty Ford GT mil, which went through rediculous amounts of durability testing even uses Ford's oil.

Why is that not acceptable?

 

[Ray Lucca]

Great info Troy.. Now can you please explain what all the SL,SM etc. mean to a layman like myself. BTW, I dropped a cylinder in my Terminator engine # 1 after my Tech convinced me to switch to Mobil 1 5W/20...HMMM. Of course New Ford Motor # 2 broke a piston after 1400 miles, and 4 oil changes, on regular non synthetic 5W/20. New Ford Motor # 3 came with the 5W/20 Ford Semi-Syn. in it and I changed it with the same Oil at 550 miles and 1300 miles and sold it at 1500 miles running strong...Go figure....

 

[UnleashedBeast]

As a statisitics fan, I don't see how one oil test can possibly determine which oils are good and which are bad. Way too many variables at play that we cannot control with a single test.

Ford does all of their durability testing with their oils, which is more than 99.9999% of owners will ever need. The mighty Ford GT mil, which went through rediculous amounts of durability testing even uses Ford's oil.

Why is that not acceptable?

This is one of hundreds of UOA showing the added wear of Mobil 1 API SM formulations.

Don't forget, Ford is in the business of selling cars, not insuring that your new car lasts a lifetime, and you never have to buy another car. They want it to wear out so you have to buy new all over again. They thrive on it.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Great info Troy.. Now can you please explain what all the SL,SM etc. mean to a layman like myself. BTW, I dropped a cylinder in my Terminator engine # 1 after my Tech convinced me to switch to Mobil 1 5W/20...HMMM. Of course New Ford Motor # 2 broke a piston after 1400 miles, and 4 oil changes, on regular non synthetic 5W/20. New Ford Motor # 3 came with the 5W/20 Ford Semi-Syn. in it and I changed it with the same Oil at 550 miles and 1300 miles and sold it at 1500 miles running strong...Go figure....

the API codes, SM...SL...SJ...

is the current standard they are currently honoring as accepted. Different codes have different standards that must be met in order to qualify. SM has ZDDP capped at 800 PPM. Older SL...SJ formulations were in the 1300's IIRC.

Less ZDDP in most formulations led to more wear.

5W-20 in a supercharged engine, yeah right! You would want a "heavy" 30 weight oil as a minimum, almost a 40 weight.

 

[PistolWhip]

As a statisitics fan, I don't see how one oil test can possibly determine which oils are good and which are bad. Way too many variables at play that we cannot control with a single test.

Ford does all of their durability testing with their oils, which is more than 99.9999% of owners will ever need. The mighty Ford GT mil, which went through rediculous amounts of durability testing even uses Ford's oil.

Why is that not acceptable?

In Ford GT engine testing, as I'm pretty familiar with the standard procedures, the oil was probably changed more often than you change your underwear. Engine tests are not done in order to prove lubricity or anti wear characteristics of oil. You also don't know what was added to that oil that was used in the GT engine testing. Someone that's so interested in statistics should have an open mind to that.
The reasons Ford recommends their oil is #1 because they label it and therefore make money off of it. #2 they are forced by Federal Regulation to warranty your emissions equipment long after your engine warranty expires. Do some research on the FoMoCo oil and you'll see that there are hundreds of OA's proving its sub standard capabilities in terms of anti-wear and lubrication.

 

[Ray Lucca]

Thanx for the info. Troy, are the SL and SJ formulations still available?
Are these what the Amsoil R. Purple and Redline are, and meet?? Oil viscosity in the Term. world was a real Hornet's nest. Most agreed and SVT stated we needed to use a 5W/20 because of the very tight Piston clearances on the Term. 4.6. Many of us ran 5W/30. I, of course, had no motor luck. It's gotta be better with the new 5.4, and I don't think we have the same clearance issues with this motor.

 

[GTSpartan]

In Ford GT engine testing, as I'm pretty familiar with the standard procedures, the oil was probably changed more often than you change your underwear. Engine tests are not done in order to prove lubricity or anti wear characteristics of oil. You also don't know what was added to that oil that was used in the GT engine testing. Someone that's so interested in statistics should have an open mind to that.
The reasons Ford recommends their oil is #1 because they label it and therefore make money off of it. #2 they are forced by Federal Regulation to warranty your emissions equipment long after your engine warranty expires. Do some research on the FoMoCo oil and you'll see that there are hundreds of OA's proving its sub standard capabilities in terms of anti-wear and lubrication.

You make some good points. I was just conveying what an actual Ford GT program team member said. They did more testing than anyone could possibly fathom, and the recommended factory fill met all of their requirements. Hell, one test is a 300hr, non stop run. If it can pass that, it's good enough for me.

No doubt there are good and bad oils out there, but I woldn't be too scared of using the factory reco'd oil.

 

[Ray Lucca]

Weren't the original tests on the Ford GT 5.4 and GT500 5.4 done on the older "A" Spec Motorcraft Oil that had the Black [I think] cap???? I think it had a different formulation. A bunch of the Ford GT guys at C/C told me they had hoarded several cases of "the old" oil.

 

[PistolWhip]

Yeah, that's a whole nother point that I didn't even think of. The original FoMoCo oil was actually pretty descent stuff. It had copious amounts of anti-wear additives (ZDDP) and was probably leaps and bounds better than what's available now from FoMoCo.

It's not that Ford wants our engines to fail, I'm not saying that its a big conspiracy that Ford is running here, I just try to think of it from a business prospective. If you have to warranty the emissions system for 100k miles, but the engine only for 50k, you'd be dumb to use an oil that would almost guarantee a large percentage of cat failure. Honestly, these engines are made so well, that even with the crap oil and lack of anti-wear properties, they'll still last practically a lifetime if kept at stock performance levels and taken care of properly.
I don't think anyone is saying that the FoMoCo oil is going to cause your engine to fail at 51k miles, it's just not the best available oil you can run and certainly won't lend to the longest possible life of your engine. I mean, why spend $3 for a bottle of tap water when you can spend $3 for a bottle of natural spring water.

 

[UnleashedBeast]

Thanx for the info. Troy, are the SL and SJ formulations still available?
Are these what the Amsoil R. Purple and Redline are, and meet?? Oil viscosity in the Term. world was a real Hornet's nest. Most agreed and SVT stated we needed to use a 5W/20 because of the very tight Piston clearances on the Term. 4.6. Many of us ran 5W/30. I, of course, had no motor luck. It's gotta be better with the new 5.4, and I don't think we have the same clearance issues with this motor.

Yes, AMSOIL top tier and Royal Purple are both still in API SL & SJ territory, except AMSOIL's XL and OE oils are API SM/SN.

Ford ONLY recommended 5W-20 due to CAFE laws. They needed to save money from the penalties of producing cars that fell under 28 mpg average. Let's put it like this....would you willingly increase your engine wear for a maximum of 1 mpg improvement? I wouldn't!

I still don't believe Ford had intentions of using a 50 weight oil in the Shelby, they just knew their Conoco oil would easily shear from a 50 to a 40 weight.

 

[GTSpartan]

Great info. Thanks for sharing.

I guess it's RP in the future for me.

Is a Motorcraft filter considered good, or should I be looking at something else?

 

[mobeydick]

I've used Mobil 1 for the last 25 years in all my vehicles except the GT500 because I can't get Mobil 1 5W-50 to put in it. I would trust Mobil 1 before ANY other oil made. I put Mobil 1 oil in my 01 7.3 at 14,000 miles and I didn't change it until 100,000 miles. I run it in my both my 6.0s. Every UOA I've ever done came back with remarks like this is as near a perfect UOA we have ever seen. A buddy of mine has a 99 F250 V10; he didn't change the oil for nearly 200,000 miles just changed the filter and topped it off. He has nearly 300,000 on it now. He pulls a Case 980E around with that thing. Ask me what brand and kind of oil he uses, Please!

If I could get Mobil 1 5W-50 to run in my GT500 you would have to pay me big money to use something different.
I’m sure there a several Oil Analyst companies out there, I’ve never heard of that one!

 

[6-Speed]

I still don't believe Ford had intentions of using a 50 weight oil in the Shelby, they just knew their Conoco oil would easily shear from a 50 to a 40 weight.

Why not just specify a 40 grade oil in the first place then ... rather than messing around with an oil with low shear stability?

 

[UnleashedBeast]

I've used Mobil 1 for the last 25 years in all my vehicles except the GT500 because I can't get Mobil 1 5W-50 to put in it.

Exxon Mobil didn't cheap out on the base stock until after Hurricane Katrina. So the oil you grew up to love over the past 25 years took a sharp decline towards mediocrity in about 2005/2006. I say again, Mobil 1 is riding a reputation built up from 30 years. A lot of their current formulations do not reflect the quality you know and expect from the past.

I would trust Mobil 1 before ANY other oil made.

You, and everyone else who believes it's the same as it was years ago, but I assure you, it's not.

I put Mobil 1 oil in my 01 7.3 at 14,000 miles and I didn't change it until 100,000 miles. I run it in my both my 6.0s. Every UOA I've ever done came back with remarks like this is as near a perfect UOA we have ever seen. A buddy of mine has a 99 F250 V10; he didn't change the oil for nearly 200,000 miles just changed the filter and topped it off. He has nearly 300,000 on it now. He pulls a Case 980E around with that thing. Ask me what brand and kind of oil he uses, Please!

How many of the vehicles listed above you remote bypass filter setups? AMSOIL ran a large 600 HP diesel truck for 409,000 miles with nothing more than filter changes and topping off the lost oil. What some people don't consider, the filter change every 15-20K miles accounted for a good amount of oil. The "top off oil" added back in a lot of additives that had previously been used. This isn't a miracle....it's called "top off oil/filter changes". It's not uncommon for those dual filters to hold 3 quarts or more of oil.

Trust me when I say this....do this with the new formulations of 5W-20, 5W-30, and 10W-30 passenger car oils (NOT diesel oils) and you are in for a surprise. Diesel oils, even Mobil 1, have a lot more additives and ZDDP than their passenger car formulations.

We are NOT discussing diesel oil here.....only gas passenger car oil.

 

[shadyninja]

I’m sure there a several Oil Analyst companies out there, I’ve never heard of that one!

cause its Polaris labs, which sells private lab testing to companies , lets see if anybody you have heard of is trusting their services...

Brand Your Own Fluid Analysis Program
Private Label Programs are designed to help original equipment manufacturers (OEM's), distributors, oil companies, and marketers increase profits and build goodwill with customers. From small businesses to Fortune 500 corporations, POLARIS Laboratories™ has been entrusted with providing value-added fluid analysis services branded under their own product lines.

 

[mobeydick]

Exxon Mobil didn't cheap out on the base stock until after Hurricane Katrina. So the oil you grew up to love over the past 25 years took a sharp decline towards mediocrity in about 2005/2006. I say again, Mobil 1 is riding a reputation built up from 30 years. A lot of their current formulations do not reflect the quality you know and expect from the past.



You, and everyone else who believes it's the same as it was years ago, but I assure you, it's not.




How many of the vehicles listed above you remote bypass filter setups? AMSOIL ran a large 600 HP diesel truck for 409,000 miles with nothing more than filter changes and topping off the lost oil. What some people don't consider, the filter change every 15-20K miles accounted for a good amount of oil. The "top off oil" added back in a lot of additives that had previously been used. This isn't a miracle....it's called "top off oil/filter changes". It's not uncommon for those dual filters to hold 3 quarts or more of oil.

Trust me when I say this....do this with the new formulations of 5W-20, 5W-30, and 10W-30 passenger car oils (NOT diesel oils) and you are in for a surprise. Diesel oils, even Mobil 1, have a lot more additives and ZDDP than their passenger car formulations.

We are NOT discussing diesel oil here.....only gas passenger car oil.

None of them have Bypass filter setups.

You sound like a salesmans, I would like full disclosure of all oil related companys you work for or are paid by in any way shape or form.