meth water inject 50/50 questions

[802gt500]

Hello all,
I'm looking for pros and cons to doing a snow or comparable meth injections system on a cammed gen II lt headers id1000 12 Shelby. Current 740 rwhp 88 degree humid day.

Looks like some nice gains possible. Thinking about 2 nozzles post rotors. Looks like it makes your octane 100, helps prevent detonation, keeps valves carbon free and cooler intake charge.

Hows the oil look after 1000 miles, 3000?
Any negative issues spraying on intake intercooler? puddling ect?

Thanks in advance for any input.

 

[Islandcat]

I am hoping people with experience chime in with their results. Been really thinking about doing this to my car lately. I too would like to do it post rotor but there isn't much information about that setup. I have read some people have good results setting up in the elbow too.

 

[802gt500]

My thoughts are that the sc produces heat so spraying after the rotors would help with ait. The whipples have ports post rotor. Like you said would like people to chime in.

 

[Willie]

I've been around this site for about 12 years now. Before that, I was into Chevys. When I was racing my Camaros, I branched my knowledge by learning how the turbo Buick guys did things. Did I learn a lot. Unfortunately for Ford guys, they don't seem to want to learn how the "others" do things. The prime example I see, hear and read is right here. No one seems to know squat about how to run methanol on a screw-type supercharger (including the vendors who claim this and that, trying to sell their product, only for the consumer (us) to discover it did not work as advertised).

And if there are a handful that do know how to properly use methanol, they are not talking. Actually, I'm guilty........... The ONE argument I always hear is, what if the pump fails? The motor goes kaboom!!! Want to tell the 80 percent of Turbo Buick guys that use methanol this? hahaha.... IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THEY KNOW SOMETHING WE DON'T? For those who think this, you need to wake up and smell the roses... I'm not saying all this to incite a riot, but to conclude with one comment.... "KNOWLEDGE IS POWER". Open your minds and research like I have...... All the information is out there!

 

[serickson1]

It works.....I ran it for years on the stock Eaton and a TVS....I sprayed 100% meth straight into the blower casing with a dual nozzle set up.....2.2 upper and 15% lower on 92 pump gas....22 degrees of timing and 21+ PSI....the pump failing is no different then if your fuel pump or BAP fails...not very likely.... I tuned mine right to the raged edge and then added the meth to fatten the A/F up.....you can make great power with 100% meth in the 10.0 to 10.5 A/F range...most guys don't spray enough or try to spray a mixture....I believe I still have the ported Eaton MPH record from nine years ago with a 135+ pass....that was on 92 pump and meth in a 4000+lb '07...

 

[Islandcat]

It works.....I ran it for years on the stock Eaton and a TVS....I sprayed 100% meth straight into the blower casing with a dual nozzle set up.....2.2 upper and 15% lower on 92 pump gas....22 degrees of timing and 21+ PSI....the pump failing is no different then if your fuel pump or BAP fails...not very likely.... I tuned mine right to the raged edge and then added the meth to fatten the A/F up.....you can make great power with 100% meth in the 10.0 to 10.5 A/F range...most guys don't spray enough or try to spray a mixture....I believe I still have the ported Eaton MPH record from nine years ago with a 135+ pass....that was on 92 pump and meth in a 4000+lb '07...

You wouldn't happen to have any pictures of where exactly you had the nozzles set up on the blower? I would really like to see the position you used.

 

[serickson1]

No....I posted a bunch in here years ago....I started with the dual nozzle set up in a metal CL intake tube that I drilled and tapped...later moved the nozzles to the back of the Eaton case and did the same to a TVS case...I kept the set up real simple...no electronic controller...just a hobbs switch set at 5psi to activate the pump and an inline flow switch with a light on the dash to show me fluid was moving, NOT a light that shows the pump is running.

 

[802gt500]

Did the mixture 50/50 not work as good or was there issues with the water portion of it?
What kind of power gains were you seeing?

 

[Beercules]

Matt snow injects his pre- blower. Saw it at Bandimere. He also runs a 50 shot. (They both absorb heat wherever you inject and decrease iat)
Run more water if you want cooling, more meth if you want octane.
Control with this: http://www.snowperformance.net/product-p/60500.htm
It fits in your vent (with the roush vent thing), tells you true boost pressure, if you're running low, or if you're not spraying.
Get the safe injection to dump boost if it stops spraying for any reason.
I've heard of a mishap where an unknown brand blew a tip off and hydrolocked an engine. Only heard that from one reputable source though which made me pause for a couple years. Diesel guys, import guys, anyone I could find had never heard of that. Maybe isolated incident? Still worth the mention due to rebuild cost.
Rotor coating. My rotor coating was worn before install. Haven't noticed additional wearing after install (TVS).
Meth also helps to seal the tolerances in your blower to raise efficiency and boost.
I did cams also before I got it on a dyno, but the n-gauge shows it calling for more timing when I start spraying... after Lund dialled in more timing on the remote custom tune.
IAT2 also drops as it sprays. Fun to watch.
I'm running a single large nozzle pre blower, don't need more, but I'm also at 6500 ft elevation and get less cfm than most of you guys.

Oh, if you get really power hungry, snow sells nitromethane immulsion to add to your reservoir. 50% o2 vs 33% o2 from nitrous. Really need to think about a/f before you play with that.

 

[Beercules]

I didn't notice water in the oil

 

[sleek98]

I ran it for years on an old turbo import. pulled the head off and you could eat off the pistons and valves. I have not thought about running it on this car now that e85 is more of an option.

 

[rotor_powerd]

I spray post-turbos/pre-blower to drop IAT's. Using a Snow Performance kit. I don't have any issues with it. Last time I looked inside of the blower it looked brand new. Curious to see how clean it has kept the intercooler and chambers when I tear it down this winter.

 

[serickson1]

Did the mixture 50/50 not work as good or was there issues with the water portion of it?
What kind of power gains were you seeing?

Couldn't safely run a 2.2 upper and 15% lower on 92 pump without it....50-70 extra RWHP over a 2.4 and 10% combo which is the limit for 92 with any amount of timing thrown at it....only ran 100% meth...

 

[Willie]

I have done extensive air temperature testing over the years. I have installed gauges at several locations, including before and after the TB (where the methanol nozzle sprays), after the blower rotors but before the intercooler, and after the intercooler (i.e. IAT2). I have discovered first-hand some interesting results and designed my methanol system based on these results.

Just a few facts: 1) Spraying before the blower results in ZERO temperature reduction after the blower, and 2) Spraying after the intercooler yields the best (lowest) IAT2 temps.

My design uses five nozzles. And for the record, I use both a mix and pure methanol, depending on ambient temp.

Tuning is a completely different topic that no tuner I know of will be willing to spend the needed time to tune your car correctly. In fact, most tuners will not help at all. This is THE reason why I took it upon myself to learn how to tune. Now the sky is the limit on how to tune my cars. It's GREAT not having to rely on someone else....

Notice in my pic I call it "Alky", not methanol?

Willie

 

[RedVenom48]

Is there a concensus as to how much octane boost a 50/50 water meth mixture will give? Will it boost 91 octane to 100+ octane?

 

[Willie]

Is there a concensus as to how much octane boost a 50/50 water meth mixture will give? Will it boost 91 octane to 100+ octane?

There's a lot of internet chatter on this. I have read different answers to this question so I do not know the answer. I wish I knew the answer but I think it takes a chemical engineer to calculate this as I believe it is determined by volume -- the amount of methanol that is used.

Willie

 

[Phantomhalo]

I've looked into this as well and actually bought the AIS kit. However, I couldn't find anyone locally or by mail order/remotely that would help me tune for it. Before you buy I'd make sure you know of someone who knows what they're doing and is willing to help you out.