I've been curious of the Driven as well. But no brand will perform better than changing oil on schedule.
You're a "fool" for thinking HT/HS doesn't decrease when the formulation shears. Do you NOT understand how Viscosity Improving Polymers work? They expand when heated to maintain a higher viscosity at engine operating temperatures. When they wear out (shear), the formulation returns to the characteristics of the native base oil without polymers. Therefore HT/HS also decreases. It's a known proven fact Motorcraft 5W-50 shears rapidly to a light SAE 40 grade, within the first 1,500 miles. However, you continue to play devil's advocate for proven science.
I don't have to do anything. Amsoil 10W-40 does not shear like Motorcraft 5W-50, maintaining its virgin specification throughout the oil change interval within 10% or less. People track the Boss 302 and Track Pack GT all the time with Motorcraft 5W-50 when it has sheared past 1,500 miles. Therefore, they are tracking the car with a light SAE 40 grade lubricant, NOT a 50 grade.
You say the results would be insignificant between two identical factory Boss 302 cars. Oh geez, you talk about how Ford engineers know best, but at the same time downplay their quality control. Yet I am the one "talking out both side of my mouth". You would argue with the wall.
Fairly accurate, but could be expanded to his 'estimates' of the change in HT/HS value.I've been using the Motorcraft 5W-50 exclusively in my Boss (with Ford Racing filters) and will most likely continue to do so for as long as my powertrain warranty remains in effect
From what I can tell the main reasons UB doesn't like the Motorcraft 5W-50 is that it's not a "true" full synthetic and that it supposedly shears quickly to about a 40 weight oil
Admittedly, I only skipped over most of this and the other UOA threads, but is that a fairly accurate summary?
Any of the other cracked formulations too, just without the irrational hate.Does this generalization apply to all 5W-50 oils on the market or just the Motorcraft?
He says it's too viscous and blames it for the demise of some GT500 engines. I think the words were 'chewed up'.What about something like the Redline 5W-50 I linked above (which I would think based on its ester formula should meet UB's definition of a true full synthetic)?
Why is shearing down to a 40 weight an issue for UB if he himself is recommending a 10W-40 from Amsoil?
A couple of months ago, Swiss Boss proved that 10W-40 did not hold up to track use in ~85* humid weather.
We have two boss owners here who took this foolish advise to the track and almost overheated their motors.
I've been using the Motorcraft 5W-50 exclusively in my Boss (with Ford Racing filters) and will most likely continue to do so for as long as my powertrain warranty remains in effect
From what I can tell the main reasons UB doesn't like the Motorcraft 5W-50 is that it's not a "true" full synthetic and that it supposedly shears quickly to about a 40 weight oil
Admittedly, I only skipped over most of this and the other UOA threads, but is that a fairly accurate summary?
Does this generalization apply to all 5W-50 oils on the market or just the Motorcraft?
What about something like the Redline 5W-50 I linked above (which I would think based on its ester formula should meet UB's definition of a true full synthetic)?
Why is shearing down to a 40 weight an issue for UB if he himself is recommending a 10W-40 from Amsoil?
Based on what I've heard from Ford engineers, they seem pretty convinced that a 5W-50 oil is ideal for proper VVT
Not trying to stir the pot any further, just trying to learn more
Elevated iron between sample 1 and 2 don't concern me, since it's double the miles. Iron is somewhat a linear ppm level when compared to mileage. However, the 3 sample is concerning. It's increasing.
If this engine is under warranty, you may have a Ford technician disassemble both valve covers and the front timing cover to inspect for damage. If not, and you are a mechanic yourself, I'd do it the same.
Flash point and viscosity is low on your third sample, however, no detected fuel dilution. A mystery this is (Yoda).
You said it sounds normal, more mystery. Tell me about your driving habits with this car. I also copied your samples to add to the list. If you could update me with what was diagnosed, it would make for a good update for anyone in the future with similar wear patterns.
On my driving habits: This is my daily driver, but my habits probably aren't the norm. I drive fairly hard most of the time, but rarely wind it up within a 1000rpm of redline. I keep loads moderate and rpm under 3500 until everything is up to temp. 99.9% of the miles are on the street, but I do instruct HPDEs and occasionally take her out for a few laps. I only recently changed out the OEM brake pads, so they helped limit things, and we have race cars for going 10/10's. Our road course is short and twisty, and I never put down more than a handful of harder laps back to back.
Thanks!
I've requested this data multiple times, no response. Others have had no problem attending HPDE with sheared 5W-50 (SAE 40 grade) and 10W-40 Amsoil. UOAs showed normal wear on both, yet you continue to make statements like this with no empirical evidence to support the claim.
Thanks Grant for finding a lab that will test HT/HS but it's a little expensive for my blood.
Plus it seems they've got good explanation how they test it. Didn't have time to read though.
As for the 10w40 on the track, I'll probably switch to the 20w50 as last Saturday my car overheat for the first time (250+CHT) and saw oil pressure as low as 60PSI @WOT. Still 25PSI @ idle when coming off track. Weather was like 85F and 80-90% humidity (Indiana)
No head scratcher here, IMO. You're in TX, and drive the car hard on the road course. I believe this is why Ford recommends the 5W-50 for the track pack GTs. Since you use AmsOil, why not try their 10W-40 or new 5W-50
Since Amsoil now provides 5w50 why aren't you recommending everyone use it that tracks their car? I understand the fact that some may not need it, however those who may will always have the right oil weight.If Swiss Boss is getting coolant/head temps that high, then he is driving the car to the cooling limits of the design. In his case, and others who drive like him, the car in fact needs more viscosity than 10W-40.
CCS86, you are using your car in a HPDE event with a lubricant that is not viscous enough. This would explain increase wear. Minimum, I would recommend Amsoil's new AZF 0W-40 when attending HPDE. If you are really putting the pedal down, like Swiss Boss, you would require 5W-50.
Since Amsoil now provides 5w50 why aren't you recommending everyone use it that tracks their car? I understand the fact that some may not need it, however those who may will always have the right oil weight.
So after the event with the 10W-40 I switched to 20W-50 and gained 10-15PSI @WOT and switched the front grille to a Saleen. It did help a lot with cooling.
Also I did find more info from the Boss302S race car manual. Page 5
http://www.fordracingparts.com/Download/BOSS302SPDFs/Boss 302S owners manual version AV4.pdf
"The Oil pressure should not drop below 30 PSI during normal operating conditions (except hot idle). Oil Temperature should not exceed 300 degrees Fahrenheit."
Oil recommended 5W-50 Motorcraft full synthetic or equivalent
Where do you guys draw the line for iron content?
Was this at idle and WOT, or just WOT during competition heats? What was hot idle after a session with 10W-40?
Boss 302S, #racecar
Would never use less than 5W-50 in it. That thing was designed to destroy.
And on the track it doesn't matter if you are a professional driver or just a newbie, the engine will see the same load