Bits and pieces of KR (and more!)...

[mblgjr]

Right now you can no longer get the KR springs...

Get the Roush rears only... ROUSH Performance: Ford Mustang Rear Coil Springs

You'll want to get an adj. panhard bar and brace for convenience sake. Do not need relocation brackets. If he retains the stock driveshaft there will be no need for any pinion angle concern.

 

[Hec332]

Looks great..

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

so, what made you go with the KR parts over coilovers? ride quality? either way, the car looks great, the stance, even with just the rear dropped, looks awesome!

 

[smrtasp]

Anyone know the difference between the KR shocks and struts compared to stock? Is it just the overall size being a little shorter as the pics above show? $179 for a complete set is a pretty good price.

 

[09Troublemaker]

great look!

 

[Tob]

My order from Maximum Motorsports came in - H&R sway bars, both front and rear. I also got some new strut to spindle hardware from them as well.

I made the switch out back first, as I already had the factory bar out from when I did the spring/shock swap.

The H&R rear bar measured 26.10 mm (1.027 inch).
The stock GT500 bar measured 23.83 mm (.938 inch).

The weight of each was similar. The billet aluminum links are works of art, as are the bushings. As H&R puts it "...[our] bars come with our exclusive Purim/Teflon composite bushings. These bushings eliminate the need for lubrication and prevent squeaks. No mess, no maintenance, and perfect fit."

Stock left, H&R right...

The stock steel bushing shells are reused. A dab of anti seize in each allowed the bushings to slip perfectly into place upon tightening. Note - you can slip the rear bar into place with the wheels on with a minimum of finesse. Otherwise, if you tighten the links first with the bar hanging, you won't be able to swing the bar into place unless you remove the wheels.

The rear bar fit perfectly.

I then moved up front for the spring/strut and sway bar install. I placed the car up on some plank I screwed together at each wheel. Up front I used a layer of black Delrin to allow the tires to slip easily when turned to aid in setting caster. The four "chunks" have the same elevation from grade.

A few moments with a jack, a ratchet and a few sockets, and I was here...

The strut slips out easy enough if you leave the assembly together. The OE combination looked very similar to the KR parts, save for some of the stickers.

I used new hardware, as supplied from Maximum Motorsports. It seems the strut to spindle nuts and bolts were changed by Ford some time in 2009. Ford went to a finer thread to allow a higher torque figure. My 2009 had the older bolts.

New Ford bolts on left, my originals on right

Putting it back together was pretty simple. I did verify that the OE camber numbers differed from side to side. I'll do my best when I finish up tomorrow (I only did the driver's side today) to equalize the alignment settings.

Before I finished for the day I swapped front sway bars.

The H&R front bar measured 36.05 mm (1.419 inch).
The stock GT500 bar measured 34.10 mm (1.342 inch).

The H&R bar was solid and weighed in at 26.2lbs!!
The stock GT500 bar was tubular and weighed in at 14.6 lbs.

Yeah. It is the fattest ass bar I've ever seen or held in my hands. Just what this fat ass of a fat ass car needed.:dw:

I used the "softer" hole in the H&R bar (rear most) as the OE bar did.

I'll hopefully finish up the passenger side tomorrow and align it without issue. My fingers are crossed.

More later.

Tob

 

[evasive]

I love my H&R sways - glad you posted pics. It would have been a heck of a lot easier for me if I'd made ramps like you have. Doing the swap on my back without raising the car except on low profile ramps and alone sucked.

 

[mblgjr]

Cool...

I'm going to have to weigh my Steeda front bar now. I know it's tubular and not that heavy oke:

BTW did HR weld the bushing stop-ring into place or is just the setscrew holding it in place?

 

[evasive]

Aren't tubular bars less "stiff" since they are hollow as compared to a bar of the same diameter and thus less effective in reducing body roll?

 

[mblgjr]

Aren't tubular bars less "stiff" since they are hollow as compared to a bar of the same diameter and thus less effective in reducing body roll?

Correct.

If you take a given material of a given diameter (say a 2" chromoly steel bar; 1-solid and 1-tubular); the solid will be stiffer.

However, going to a slightly larger diameter, tubular bar saves some weight. How much weight will vary depending on overall size and wall thickness.

 

[mblgjr]

If someone *ahem* would take a few measurements we can compare the HR, Steeda and factory :beer:

Edit: Except I just realized I don't know the wall thickness of the Steeda bar. Suppose it can be calculated backwards from the factory bar; it's supposed to be 10% stiffer with the end link in it's shortest position (has 3 pickup points).

Sway Bar Rate Calculator | Build A Faster Car

Handy little calculator that actually seems to work :beer:

 

[Tob]

Evasive - I don't possibly see how you could have slid under the car without raising it, unless you are anorexic to the point of being paper thin. Do you have rubber arms about 4' in length?

Matt, being me, I was itching to see if H&R drilled the bar where the set screws ended up in that collar. But I decided not to mess with it because I simply don't want any "unintended consequences" as a result of backing them out. However, I trust that this German designed and manufactured bar(s) was done right.

That's a pretty nifty calculator you found. I have no problem getting all the dimensions. Calculating the OE "hollow" bar rate should be possible as well as determining wall thickness should be easy enough.

 

[evasive]

Ha, I had low-profile ramps so a few inches more of room. My back and shoulders were sore for a few days. Your ramps would have made it significantly easier.

 

[Tob]

I knew it you had to use something. It was still a pain even as high as I have mine now.

As to the blocking I'm using - I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea. They aren't ramped. Were I to move the car too far back or forward things would get ugly in a hurry (CRUNCH!!). I was in a hurry to get the car up so I didn't finish the front with an actual sloped portion to allow it to roll back and down if I so desire. I simply wanted it level on all fours, along with the Delrin surface up front to reduce any tire friction/bind when I check the caster.

I'll have all my mods done before I ever get a lift in place.

Tob

 

[Tob]

I completed the strut/spring swap in short order and spent a bit of time trying to align it. I used Longacre's gauge with magnetic adapter, that fit nicely inside my 2010 wheels and attached itself directly to the rotor face. I've used it in the past on a couple of fox bodies that were equipped with MM's caster/camber plates with excellent results. I wish I had picked up a set of plates for this car too, now...:shrug:

Checking caster is pretty simple. On a level surface, affix the gauge to a surface parallel to the spindle/hub face (again, I used the rotor) with the wheels pointing straight ahead. Since I'm checking the passenger side, I then turn the wheels 20* to the right (see the directions/pdf in the link I provided). Re-level the gauge and zero out the center vial.

Make sure the gauge was level when zero'd out (note small vial at the end of the gauge)...

Then turn the wheels back 20* to center plus an additional 20* (for a total of 40*).

Level the gauge, and you have your caster number for the passenger side.

I was able to get +7* caster on the driver's side and *7-1/4* caster on the passenger side.

Camber is even easier to check, simply by noting the reading on the camber vial when the gauge is attached, leveled, and the wheels pointing straight ahead. I originally (stock) had -7/8* camber on the driver's side and -3/4* camber on the passenger side. I was able to match the original setting on the driver's side after the struts/springs were installed. The passenger side was a different story.

Here is a shot of the passenger side strut tower, taken from the front of the car. You can see that the strut mount studs are hitting the sheetmetal and therefore can't go to the left any further.

Best I could do was negative -1.25* of camber. I could not tip the strut head to the left to reduce camber anymore. I've seen mention of KR alignment specifications as using ~ -1.50* camber, so I'll probably go back and adjust the other side in an attempt to close the gap between the two. Pretty lousy that Ford didn't slot the stut towers a bit more for adjustment. They just know there are legions of enthusiasts that'll be dropping the ride height...

Anyway, my vote is for anyone considering any type of drop to strongly consider MM's plates. I'm not a fan of "cam" bolts for the strut/spindle connection. As evidenced by Ford's change to a higher torque bolt at that union, I'd rather keep the factory bolts and make any adjustments at the top of the strut. That said, I don't see how anybody gets by without them when doing an even greater drop than mine, such as the FRPP springs or other aftermarket units.

As much as I rolled the car back and forth between alignment checks while still up on blocking, I got the same numbers after moving the car further, along with "bouncing" the suspension. The Delrin really made things smooth.

I did a quick check of ride height:

- left front 27-5/8"
-right front 27-3/4"

*NOTE - Original front ride height was 28-3/8". We'll see how much further it goes down...

- left rear 28-1/2"
- right rear 28-1/2"

*NOTE - the KR rear drop now comes in at 1 inch total!

I'll probably let the front get settled in and recheck the camber settings. At that point I'll verify toe settings.

And Matt, I measured up the sway bars.

A: 14"
B: 30.25"
C: 15"
D: 1.42" (H&R bar)
ID: OE GT500 bar has a wall thickness of .227" and an OD of 1.34". Thus 1.34 - .454 = .886 as the inner diameter.

So, what rates do you come up for the two front bars?

Tob

1239.4 lb/in for the H&R bar...
795.02 lb/in for the stocker...

Right? Zoinks!!

 

[6-Speed]

Camber spec is 0 degrees to -1.5 degrees, so you are within spec at -1.25 degrees.

 

[mblgjr]

I'm away from the shop but I'll try and measure up the Steeda bar tonight.

Which hole did you use to calculate your stiffness measurements? The rear pickup hole; as-installed?

Would like to know the "hard" rate for the stock and HR bar too; and then all 3-pickup point rates on the Steeda (I'll get to this).

How did you arrive at the wall thickness of the stocker? By taking 1/2 the thickness of the pickup blade? (where it's pinched/crushed flat?).

 

[Tob]

Camber spec is 0 degrees to -1.5 degrees, so you are within spec at -1.25 degrees.

Yup, I saw the numbers you posted in one of your many excellent tech threads. Funny, I never looked at any of the suspension ones until this afternoon. Crazy, that I experienced much of the same and had come to the same conclusions. You must be a very smart guy.:-D

I'm away from the shop but I'll try and measure up the Steeda bar tonight.

Which hole did you use to calculate your stiffness measurements? The rear pickup hole; as-installed?

Would like to know the "hard" rate for the stock and HR bar too; and then all 3-pickup point rates on the Steeda (I'll get to this).

How did you arrive at the wall thickness of the stocker? By taking 1/2 the thickness of the pickup blade? (where it's pinched/crushed flat?).

Matt, imagine laying the two bars atop of one another. The factory hole (softest of the two) just about lines up with the rearmost H&R hole, so I used the same location for both.

I'm not sure what you mean about "hard" rate...?
The answer to your last question is yes.

Tob

 

[mblgjr]

I was saying compare the other attachment points; substitute the "optional" lengths for the factory and HR bars and see how that compares.

I suppose it's the "A" length.

 

[RedlineHP]

Tob, excellent write-up, again. I always enjoy the detail you provide.
Now I've got a few more mods to do, could you walk me thru those too :beer: