Competition has shown up...

[Captain Beyond]

I'm sorry, that's not a good looking car. It's exterior ugliness is only exceeded by it's hideous interior. Maybe if I had a mullet it would look better to me!!?!?!? ;-)oke:

At least we won't be constantly reminded of their nicer looking interiors - like every GTO owner does. :lol1:

 

[ON D BIT]

I heard it was close to if not over 4,000#. Or was that the Challenger? :shrug:

i believe that was the weight of the blown z28. i have read 2 numbers: 3747 and 3860. i am guessing one is the v6 and one is the ls3 ss.

 

[Captain Beyond]

i believe that was the weight of the blown z28. i have read 2 numbers: 3747 and 3860. i am guessing one is the v6 and one is the ls3 ss.

OK, I remember now that you threw out the 3747 #. I think you're right on those weights.

 

[Shaker1]

i believe that was the weight of the blown z28. i have read 2 numbers: 3747 and 3860. i am guessing one is the v6 and one is the ls3 ss.

Yep, this is what I read:

The curb weight for the V6 Camaro is around 3,700lbs.

The curb weight for the SS is 3,900lbs.


Makes our forged supercharged GT500 seem less weighty all of a sudden.:lol1:

 

[Shaker1]

how do you get $1500 for...

longtube headers, performance cam, ported intake, K&N aircharger, under-drive pulley and a custom tune

especially when you consider it has a corvette logo somewhere on there.

???? :??:

Uhuh, maybe $1500 for the headers.

 

[Shaker1]

That dash is clearly supposed to look like the 69 Camaro. Too bad it was ugly to begin with. And those console mounted gauges were useless back then and still are.

http://www.hotrodscustomstuff.com/Cars/copo-camaro/copo-camaro-01-06.jpg

 

[CobraRed01]

I'm sorry, that's not a good looking car. It's exterior ugliness is only exceeded by it's hideous interior. Maybe if I had a mullet it would look better to me!!?!?!? ;-)oke:

Oh that's a good one!!! ROFL :lol:

 

[drkchk03svt]

Competitors can't match it!!!!

I actually like it except for the dash, ugh, that would probably keep me from considering one. Where the hell did they get the design for that damn dash? It's hard to believe the same company designed the dash in the vette.

I hate to say it guys but the GT500 dash is not the best looking either and I own one. That was my number one complaint!

 

[Formula51]

Yep, this is what I read:

The curb weight for the V6 Camaro is around 3,700lbs.

The curb weight for the SS is 3,900lbs.


Makes our forged supercharged GT500 seem less weighty all of a sudden.:lol1:

Not when you consider the fact that that Camaro SS is slightly larger than the GT500 and rides on a fully independent suspension with 20" wheels and massive brake rotors, etc.

3,860 is just about what I was expecting for the SS. Lighter than the G8 and heavier than the GTO. With a 3.45 rear gear ratio and 275's out back, the car is going to be darn fast!

I am most impressed by the 300hp V6 LT with the optional RS package which gives you the 20" wheels. Have you guys seen how aggressive the gearing is on the 6-speed manual for the V6 model?!?!

Look around here: http://www.chevy.com/camaro

The V6 with the RS package and a 6-speed manual is going to be an affordable, good looking, quick little car getting in the mid to upper 20's mpg on 87 octane with cheap insurance as icing on the cake!

Not to mention, it looks like there might be some nice goodies like HUD!

Price is everything at this point. And it will certainly cost more than the Mustang. Be honest with yourself, it should.

I personally think it is a great looking car (you guys need to see one in person) and I would be happy to drive one.

Oh, and Fourcam, you owe me a steak dinner and a beer buddy! Not going to be 4,000 pounds or 600 pounds heavier than the new Mustang GT!!! If you are every in the Greenville, SC area then give me a shout. :beer:

 

[Snagged]

I didn't realize the new Camaro was going to have independent suspension. That's something.

 

[fak3r]

I think its gorgeous

 

[tomsgarage]

Yum, yum! More open track bait!

 

[Shaker1]

Not when you consider the fact that that Camaro SS is slightly larger than the GT500 and rides on a fully independent suspension with 20" wheels and massive brake rotors, etc.

To be clear, I am not a hater of the Camaro. But, when the GT500 (4 seat muscle car) was being compared to the Corvette (2 seat sports car) to many it seemed ponderously heavy.

Now when comparing apples to apples , it is looking pretty good considering the extra weight associated with the supercharger and forged iron block.

As far as I know, the brakes are basically comparable to the GT500. And the IRS, if designed into the car from the start, would not be the quite the weight problem it was when retrofitting it to the 03/04 Cobra. "Slightly larger" is not an advantage to my way of thinking. The unsprung weight of those 20s isn't going to help acceleration any either.

And yes it will be fast. But, by my figures the power to weight ratio of my (3820 lbs/590 crank HP) slightly modified (JLT,tune) GT500 is appx 6.48, whereas a 3860 lb. Camaro with 416 crank horsepower has a power to weight ratio of 9.27

Gonna take some serious modding on a Camaro to make up that difference.

 

[Angel]

To be clear, I am not a hater of the Camaro. But, when the GT500 (4 seat muscle car) was being compared to the Corvette (2 seat sports car) to many it seemed ponderously heavy.

Now when comparing apples to apples , it is looking pretty good considering the extra weight associated with the supercharger and forged iron block.

As far as I know, the brakes are basically comparable to the GT500. And the IRS, if designed into the car from the start, would not be the quite the weight problem it was when retrofitting it to the 03/04 Cobra. "Slightly larger" is not an advantage to my way of thinking. The unsprung weight of those 20s isn't going to help acceleration any either.

And yes it will be fast. But, by my figures the power to weight ratio of my (3820 lbs/590 crank HP) slightly modified (JLT,tune) GT500 is appx 6.48, whereas a 3860 lb. Camaro with 416 crank horsepower has a power to weight ratio of 9.27

Gonna take some serious modding on a Camaro to make up that difference.

Weight is not always a disadvantage on the open road track. It is how well the car is balanced with respect to power to weight ratio; weight distribution, how the chassis sets upon handling the car and producing g's, and the aerodynamics of the car. Suspension is only part of the equation and excess of power, as most already know, can be a liability on the road track. Knowing the characteristics, strengths and weaknesses of a given performance suspension setup and subsequently, employing them within the race arena produces successful results.

 

[Formula51]

To be clear, I am not a hater of the Camaro. But, when the GT500 (4 seat muscle car) was being compared to the Corvette (2 seat sports car) to many it seemed ponderously heavy.

Now when comparing apples to apples , it is looking pretty good considering the extra weight associated with the supercharger and forged iron block.

As far as I know, the brakes are basically comparable to the GT500. And the IRS, if designed into the car from the start, would not be the quite the weight problem it was when retrofitting it to the 03/04 Cobra. "Slightly larger" is not an advantage to my way of thinking. The unsprung weight of those 20s isn't going to help acceleration any either.

I think you didnt get what I was saying. The Camaro is larger than the GT500, with bigger and heavier wheels, a heavier global sedan chassis designed to meet safety regulations all over the world, and an independent rear suspension, yet it weighs the same as the GT500.

And yes it will be fast. But, by my figures the power to weight ratio of my (3820 lbs/590 crank HP) slightly modified (JLT,tune) GT500 is appx 6.48, whereas a 3860 lb. Camaro with 416 crank horsepower has a power to weight ratio of 9.27

Gonna take some serious modding on a Camaro to make up that difference.

Stock GT500 without Shaker 1000 is 3850/500 and gives you 7.7 power to weight ratio.

Stock Camaro SS is 3860/422 and gives you 9.1 power to weight ratio.

Anyway you slice it, the GT500 is the faster car, but for more than $10k less, the Camaro SS presents a very good buy. Let us also not forget that it is much more balanced than the GT500 and will offer features and amenities that the more expensive GT500 does not. All while likely offering greater ride comfort and handling due to the SLA and IRS suspension.

 

[03 DSG Snake]

guys for 1500 bones the LS3 can push 500+ RWHP

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/07/23/dyno-might-dragtimes-gets-the-numbers-on-the-ls3-corvette/

I love saying this, THE MUSCLE WARS ARE BACK :rockon:

And what would a GT500 do with $1,500? :read:





:sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:

 

[Shaker1]

Stock GT500 without Shaker 1000 is 3850/500 and gives you 7.7 power to weight ratio.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6875282&postcount=23

As long as we're splitting hairs, this one is right at 3800 (No Shaker1000, like mine). And yes (on the 6.48 number) I am comparing to a car with tune/cai. What will $800 in mods get you on a Camaro SS with LS3? Not 75 rwhp, I suspect. But, even stock there is a BIG power to weight difference.

Still, my original point was that when the GT500 first appeared, everyone was comparing them to Vettes in the weight and performance catagories. Now that we can do an "apples to apples" comparison with the Challenger and Camaro, the GT500 (with iron block and supercharger hardware) ain't looking so bad.

Anyway you slice it, the GT500 is the faster car, but for more than $10k less, the Camaro SS presents a very good buy. Let us also not forget that it is much more balanced than the GT500 and will offer features and amenities that the more expensive GT500 does not. All while likely offering greater ride comfort and handling due to the SLA and IRS suspension.

Since no production models exist and MSRP is not actually set, the other points remain to be seen. Remember base MSRP on a Shelby is actually $42,330, Will we be be seeing a $32,330 Camaro SS base MSRP?

But, I agree it will be a nice car, with fine amenities and adequate power. I expect it to perform roughly the same as an 04 GTO. Same weight, power & IRS. I really don't dislike the car, but I am pleased that it will not be the Big Dog. Just a little one nipping at the GT500's heels!:rolling:

 

[ON D BIT]

Oh, and Fourcam, you owe me a steak dinner and a beer buddy! Not going to be 4,000 pounds or 600 pounds heavier than the new Mustang GT!!! If you are every in the Greenville, SC area then give me a shout. :beer:

the numbers that were being qouted was from the z28. i have no clue as to what your small bet was, though i am sure you will not argue that the blower intercooler and all supporting hardware on the blown z28 will weigh at least 140lbs more than the ss.

 

[Formula51]

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6875282&postcount=23

As long as we're splitting hairs, this one is right at 3800 (No Shaker1000, like mine). And yes (on the 6.48 number) I am comparing to a car with tune/cai. What will $800 in mods get you on a Camaro SS with LS3? Not 75 rwhp, I suspect. But, even stock there is a BIG power to weight difference.

Still, my original point was that when the GT500 first appeared, everyone was comparing them to Vettes in the weight and performance catagories. Now that we can do an "apples to apples" comparison with the Challenger and Camaro, the GT500 (with iron block and supercharger hardware) ain't looking so bad.

I agree with you, but you have to remember that the GT500 is a smaller car with a solid rear axle, and is not based on a four door sedan. Now, take away the weight of the supercharger/related plumbing and the iron block and you could add an IRS and weight would probably be similar. But then it wouldnt be the straightline monster that it is.

Since no production models exist and MSRP is not actually set, the other points remain to be seen. Remember base MSRP on a Shelby is actually $42,330, Will we be be seeing a $32,330 Camaro SS base MSRP?

I think we will be seeing a base MSRP right around that and with less gas guzzler tax, which must be factored into the price of the cars.

But, I agree it will be a nice car, with fine amenities and adequate power. I expect it to perform roughly the same as an 04 GTO. Same weight, power & IRS. I really don't dislike the car, but I am pleased that it will not be the Big Dog. Just a little one nipping at the GT500's heels!:rolling:

I think you meant 05-06 GTO? Even then, I think it will perform better. The Camaro SS was never intended to be the big dog in relation to the GT500. If GM builds a Z28, that will be the goal. I do wonder who is going to be nipping at who's heels on the track. The Camaro looks to have some nice brakes, no supercharger heat soak, and very good balance. Add on top of that, GM spent a lot of time tunning the handling of the car. Could be interesting. I would still take mine over either when it comes to the track, 500 pounds is a lot of weight!

The Camaro SS looks to be the big dog of its competition, the Mustang GT and Challenger RT, for now. We will have to see what Ford brings in 2011 and if Chevy and Dodge up their power then. That is the beauty of competition.

Currently, I would take a Challenger RT for a budget cruiser/commuter and a GT500 if I am willing to dish out more money. I dont see the need for the new Camaro unless the V6 is super impressive. But I'm not buying until 2010 or 2011. Who knows, could be a Mustang GT if the rumors are true.

 

[Formula51]

the numbers that were being qouted was from the z28. i have no clue as to what your small bet was, though i am sure you will not argue that the blower intercooler and all supporting hardware on the blown z28 will weigh at least 140lbs more than the ss.

We were talking Camaro SS vs. 2011 Mustang GT with a 5.0L and 6-speed.

I will be very interested to see how much the Z28 gains in weight. Personally, I am about sick and tired of all these heavy cars for anything but straightline speed and cruising. And there is nothing wrong with cruising!