Convertible top lifts unevenly... Any suggestions?

[SLPRCTM]

While we are on the subject. Does anyone have a "how to" on bleeding the hydraulic lines for the convertible top? I have a line with some stress marks in it that I want to change out but are not sure how to bleed the system.

 

[SLOWBRA]

Here is a video of the problem I am experiencing:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQs4M-iLps4"]YouTube - TopProblem[/ame]

Three things you will notice. 1. The top going up unevenly, 2. The small hiccup at 9sec when going down, and 3. how the passenger side bottoms out hard and before the drivers side.

We have discussed the top uneven issue, but the hiccup occurs every time at the same location when the top is going down.

I have ordered two new hydraulic lifts and they will be here next week. I will keep everyone updated and document the steps I took for future reference (including how to bleed it).

BTW. Powerfshift03.. Take a look at this link and tell me if this situation is possible with the 04's. Mustang Convertible Top Lift Cylinders

 

[steve5575]

That motor sounds loud. Have you checked the fluid level? Mine did the same thing, topped it off with some new ATF, motor quieted down (because it was now submerged) and fixed the uneveness (for the most part). Easy thing to check and fill. Just a thought.

 

[SLOWBRA]

Well, the car didn't have any rear seats or panels in... It is not that loud with the interior in place.

I'll check the fluid tonight. What ATF do you recommend?

 

[Powershift03]

Yep, that's a bad top cylinder. After watching your vid I would say you did the right thing ordering 2 new top cylinders too. The driver's side may be OK, but if one side went bad... the other may not be far behind. Mercon ATF is what we used at Ford.

And yes, with the rear seat out, and the side panels removed, the pump noise is much more obvious. When you replace the two cylinders, and top off the pump reservoir, actuate the top up and down a few times to help burp air out of the system. Keep checking / adding to the pump reservoir. The pump will growl like a pissed off cat until the air is out.

 

[SLOWBRA]

Sounds good man.. I'll update everyone when the project begins. According to Tousley Ford, I should have them on Friday.

 

[SLOWBRA]

To be honest... I don't think judging the resistance of trying to manually lift the top up is a good indicator of what is going on inside the top cylinders.

Yep, that's a bad top cylinder. After watching your vid I would say you did the right thing ordering 2 new top cylinders too. The driver's side may be OK, but if one side went bad... the other may not be far behind.

Ok.. I have both cylinders unhooked from the top. When testing them unhooked they both go up evenly and smoothly. This is without any resistance of course. I tested this many times and it's perfect. How can I confirm one of these are bad without replacing them?

When the cylinders were hooked to the top, you can tell how the passenger side starts, slows, and then goes again to catch up to the drivers side. It's like the passenger side is harder to lift. I've verified this manually as listed in the original post.

Now that the cylinders are unhooked from the top, I decided to lift the top up from the center manually, the drivers side comes up quicker then the passenger side. It's repeatable and noticeable each and every time. It's as if the passenger side is tighter (in a bind, or something).

Powershift03.. Can you, or anyone else, review the following link (make sure you make it to the last post, #9) and tell me if this could be my problem in the 04? Mustang Convertible Top Lift Cylinders

As you will read, the link mentions another part of the ford design that helps with the top. Is it possible this is my issue? Is this on the 04's?

I really don't want to waste the time and expense of installing the lift cylinders if I have some other problem. I have the new cylinders here and only want to install them once I know for sure this is it.

Thanks for the help thus far guys.

 

[SLOWBRA]

Another update..

If you put resistance against either one of the cylinders while engaging them to go up it effects their extension. i.e. if I put pressure on the top of the drivers side cylinder it slows down in relation to the other. (the extension length of it was shorter then the other initially. SO.. if the passenger side is "harder" to lift up manually it could be the culprit couldn't it?

I realize this isn't scientific, but I'm trying everything I can think of. Should I be able to slow down the extension of these cylinders by putting resistance against them?

I also found this post on Mod fords: http://www.modularfords.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59286&highlight=convertible+uneven Not really sure what they did in his case.

 

[Powershift03]

Of all the hydraulic issue repairs on verts I did at Ford... I never came across any problems other than bad / weak cylinders, broken lines, or a bad pump. Testing the cylinders while they are disconnected isn't really a good test of their hydraulic power capability either. They need some solid form of resistance to judge their operation and power.

The fix the guy did on the link you posted was the first I have heard of that kind. I think your issue is a fairly simple / standard one. One top cylinder is slower lifting than the other. If you have no signs of leakage, and the pump sounds OK, I would still recommend replacing both top cylinders. Lubricating any hinge points in the top mechanism is also good routine maintenance... so do that while you are there too.

 

[SLOWBRA]

Sounds good man... All of this is very new to me so it's learn as you go.

As always, I appreciate your input and will start with the basics.

 

[Powershift03]

No problem, hope it helps. Good luck. My fingers are crossed you don't have some unique problem. Murphy tends to bite ya in the ass when ya post advice on a public forum. :lol1:

 

[SLOWBRA]

Well.. I decided I would give it one more attempt before swapping the new cylinders in... I decided to swap the original cylinders from side to side. Unfortunately, it made no difference. The passenger side still lags behind when going up.

I didn't "bleed" the system thoroughly yet. Is it worth it to go through this exercise given the situation hasn't changed? Is it worth the risk to try the new cylinders given that the problem didn't change sides?

I guess I am back to having no idea what is causing the problem.

 

[Powershift03]

It's up to you.. but I would still swap in the new units. Swapping an old cyl, for another old cyl, may not be much of an upgrade. Wish I could see the car in person.

 

[SLOWBRA]

Yea.. It's a tough call.. IMHO the problem should have went to the drivers side if it was a cylinder problem. I'm not an expert by any means, but it doesn't make sense that it stayed on the same side despite the switch.

I'd rather not dump 200 bucks down the drain for no reason if you know what I mean. I too wish you were local.. I can't seem to track down anyone local and don't really know anyone at ford that I would trust with the car.

I can't seem to find anything binding like that email described on my car either.

Back to square one I guess

 

[mitrls10]

I dont have a pump in front of me looking at it but if the pump pressurizes the same area and each line branches off of the pressure chamber I would say there is probably a restriction in the line. Take both lines off the cylinders and try to blow through each of them and see if one is harder than the other to blow through.

 

[SLOWBRA]

After I bled the system I no longer have that hiccup as the video depicted. It appears it's just struggling to pick up the passenger side.. Something is causing it to be more difficult to lift then the drivers side. Just not sure what to look for that is causing the bind.

 

[SLOWBRA]

My friend stopped by today and we did some more tinkering. The below will only make sense to those who have seen the lift cylinders themselves in action.

The top goes even if my friend grabs the passenger lift cylinder (pulling on the cylinder as if he were lifting it up) while the top is going up. We can make the drivers side go up slower if we push down on the drivers cylinder.

These cylinders are allowed to pivot from the factory. The swivel upwards and downwards depending on the top. I'm not sure if something is wrong with the pivot point, but it was an interesting observation.

Powershift03. Can you help me understand what the cam adjustment mechanism controls? It's about the only thing I can find in my ford manual that has to do with the top.

My friend also thought it was odd that the passenger side comes down harder then the drivers side (hits the stop much harder then the drivers side). What controls this?

 

[THunterW]

Man, I know this thread is like 7 years old, but I'm currently experiencing this same headache as you. My passenger side lift cylinder lags behind my driver side cylinder and doesn't start lifting the top until the top is cocked at an angle about a foot higher on the driver's side. I've already replaced both cylinders and even put a new clear hose kit in and bled it with new fluid and although it sounds quieter and smoother the passenger side still won't lift no where near even with the driver's side. Did you ever find a fix to your problem?

 

[SLOWBRA]

Never did find a solution. 7 years later and it hasn't gotten any worse or better. Still the same thing. Doesn't bother me anymore. Would certainly be interested in fixing it if I knew exactly what I can do to fix it.

 

[THunterW]

I played around with the passenger cylinder some more last night. If I left the nut that attaches the mount pin plate loose, the top would raise a lot smoother but was still not even with the driver's side. Obviously I can't leave that nut loose so it didn't really help anything. Also when I installed the new cylinder on the passenger side, the actuator rod did not line up very well with the frame of the top where you attach it with the T40 bolt. I had to force it some towards the outboard side of the car, so not sure if there is an alignment issue with that. I had bought two different kind of lift cylinders from LMR; the one I used on the passenger side is the cheaper one that is a two-piece design (same one is on American Muscle's site). The new one I installed on the driver's side is a single piece design and a lot better quality. Watching the passenger side cylinder as I raise the top, I notice the cylinder starts to flex at the joint where it is pieced together at the "cap" of the cylinder. Going to order another one of the solid more expensive cylinders from LMR as well as 3 more pump plugs since I ripped my new one in half installing it. I also took both cylinders, with the lines still attached, routed them back behind the frame and layed them down in the floor pan of the car and actuated them multiple times to get as much air out as possible since the cylinders were lower than the motor itself in this location. I did notice that the passenger cylinder, even with nothing attached to it, began moving about 3 seconds slower than the driver's side cylinder when I would press the switch to "raise" the top. When I would "lower" the top (still with both cylinder not attached to anything) the passenger side cylinder would be the last one to fully retract its actuator arm. I think I either have a weak/faulty cylinder, which I'm going to replace with the better unit anyways, or my lift motor is going bad as well. At this point I'm pretty much throwing money and parts at it and will have a completely new system, minus a new top and frame if I have to get a pump.