CTS-V Vs. GT500 w/PP Drag Race

[Yellow03snake]

The guy driving the GT500 dropped back a car each time he shifted LOL

 

[Captain Beyond]

The Caddy simply had better traction. Notice how the Shelby trapped 2.3 mph faster in the 1/4. I bet the GT500 wins with a better driver. :burnout: I wonder how both cars would do on a road course? :-D

 

[Shaker1]

The Caddy simply had better traction. Notice how the Shelby trapped 2.3 mph faster in the 1/4...

Clearly supports the contention that the GT500 is severely traction limited. And if you are going to pit a manual against an auto find someone who can power shift, or at least speed shift.

The latest MT has a 4033 lb Hurst Camaro with a supercharged 600 HP LS3 going 12.3 @ 116.7 in the 1320. There's a good benchmark right there!

 

[Robert M]

Clearly supports the contention that the GT500 is severely traction limited.

The latest MT has a 4033 lb Hurst Camaro with a supercharged 600 HP LS3 going 12.3 @ 116.7 in the 1320. There's a good benchmark right there!

What rear tire set up is on this 600hp Camaro?

R

 

[Yellow Horse]

C&D already ran better times like to 60 in 4.1 and the 1/4 in 12.4 in the 2011. I guess they fired the old quicker test driver and gave us this looser.

WOW Edmunds just ripped off a [email protected] with the manual coupe

Here's a youtube link. How can I make it play in this post?

YouTube- 2011 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe Track Test

For years MT, C&D and R&T bashed the Big 3 while hailing Toyota, Nissna, Honda on their quality and makiing cars Americans want.

Today, they praise GM and now all of a sudden we learn import makers have been building poor quality cars all along.

Has a lot to do wth Obama, Gubimint Motors and the UAW. Anyone see the fat slob AFL-CIO president with our Idiot in Chief yesterday? Their scam is about to hit he skids.

 

[evasive]

Katech does some nice work on the CTS-V

 

[PowerWheels]

The 1-2 shift issue raises it's head?

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...0-2010-2011-gt500-1-2-shift-problem-poll.html

 

[Formula51]

I wonder how both cars would do on a road course? :-D

Me too! You do know the CTS-V Sedan is VERY capable on track right? Like M3 beater capable.

 

[evasive]

M3 beater? You don't have a griggs car on ebay, do you? (see earlier thread)

 

[Formula51]

The specifics of this bias that I can remember started when the 2000 Cobra R was put against the 2001 Z06 back in 2001. It was the same way with the 1995 Cobra R against the Z/28 in that era. "It is unfair pitting a street legal race car against a full street car", that was the comment by the Camaro crowd (they did not mention the 1LE Camaro’s). The Z06 guys and magazine editors picked apart the 00R because it was "a Mustang". When the 03 Cobra came along to stand up to the Z06, same issues..........."it's a Mustang". I agree with the "it's a Mustang" because it is, BUT, give some credit to those Mustangs that were able to compete, and hold their own against cars with much more advanced/current technology, like the premier American Sports Car, and not the lesser Corvettes, but instead the top end performance offering.

Not sure I follow you here. Clearly a Cobra R and a 1LE optioned Camaro are two very different cars. You should know. Isn't the 2000 Cobra R the car you had to have a racing license to buy, had no radio, and was sold it very limited numbers? I can see a magazine making a caveat that the Cobra R is not a full street car if its competition is. I see no bias there.

Not sure where you were going with the 03 Cobra and 03 Z06 either. They were two very different cars, at different price points, and the Z06 handed the Cobra its ass in everything but a straightline.

Then came the Challenger SRT-8 in 2008, 425 horse, all automatics. For the most part, the only "pony car" that was tested on a regular basis against the Challenger SRT-8 was the 300 horse Mustang GT. The 500 horse GT500 would get a mention in the article, but no side-by-side tests, why you might ask???? Because the GT500 was old news and the Challenger was the "hype". They couldn't have the "old news” Mustang (GT500) running 1+ seconds faster than the new hype Challenger, so they chose the lesser model Mustang as Ford test comparison.

I fully agree the SRT8 Challenger should be compared to the GT500 and it was in atleast one test I can remember. The Challenger RT should be compared to a Mustang GT.

Then the current Camaro SS, again a 425 horse pony car, it was the hype. The Challenger was older news (and heavier) so the Camaro was the winner between these two, BUT again very few side-by-sides with the "then" 540 horse GT500. Instead, most tests again were done with the lower level Mustang GT. The question again.................why?? Well again, the GT500 was old news, the Camaro SS was the hype, and the 540 horse car would have made the 425 horse Camaro SS look like granny car. =

This comes down to price point and target market. Plain and simple, the Camaro SS should never have been compared to the SRT8 Challenger or GT500. The Camaro SS, Mustang GT, and Challenger RT are in the same price range with the same potential buyers. The fact that the Camaro SS could compete with and beat the much more epxensive SRT8 Challenger was impressive, but not the point of the car. As for the GT500, ask yourself this, why would a $32-35k car be compared to a $48-50k car? Especially when there is a $28-34k direct competitor in the Mustang GT to compare it to.

Now, finally GM is stepping up and offering something that is matching the GT500 power level more closely. More of the magazine tests are now finally going to include the GT500 on a regular basis without embarrassing the other car in the test, and the tests are getting exciting.

More importantly, it is matching the GT500 in COST and potential buyers more closely.

I would say to the Camaro guys, look back through the magazine tests from recent history and examine how many GT500 (500, 540 or 550 horse) Mustangs have been tested against their 425/426 Camaro SS’s, they will find that the number is almost non-existent. Their Camaro SS has been tested against the Mustang GT in about every test that was published.

EXACTLY as it should be. I would love to hear the argument for why a $32-35k Camaro SS should be compared to the $50k GT500 and not the $30-35k Mustang GT.....

So, in reality, the top dog offerings from Chevy and Dodge have, for the most part been tested by the magazines against the lesser offering in the Mustang stable, but as I previously mentioned, the “hype” is the big deal to the magazines, and if there is something out there that will make the hype look bad, it is relegated to a “mention” in the article.

R

:nonono:

 

[palasz]

Me too! You do know the CTS-V Sedan is VERY capable on track right? Like M3 beater capable.

People were running the Caddy's at Monticello couple weekends ago when I was there.. they were running in a different group than me so I did not have a chance to pass any.. )

M.

 

[Snagged]

I love how there are so many people jumping the gun on this one. Things will get interesting when the lighter GT500 gets better tires to accommodate its package. We already know which car has the much better potential.

 

[barstoolman]

The Coupe is really going to kick-ass and no TSB's to boot!!!!!! Imagine, being able to shift from 1st to 2nd......what a concept!!!!! Imagine, a smooth riding suspension.....another amazing concept!!!! Can't wait to get one of these CTS-V Coupes and get rid of the unenjoyable experience I've had with my '08 GT500.....sorry to say, a huge disappointment.

I'll be seeing you guys out on the highway and look forward to your excuses as to why all you saw were my tailights!!!!!!

 

[DavidHasselhoff]

More importantly, it is matching the GT500 in COST and potential buyers more closely.
EXACTLY as it should be. I would love to hear the argument for why a $32-35k Camaro SS should be compared to the $50k GT500 and not the $30-35k Mustang GT.....
:

So why do they compare the ZR1 to a GTR, 599 GTB, and Porshe GT2?

Just saying all those cars are in different price groups....aren't they? They compare the GTR to Porshce's alot. Z06's to ferraris...So cost isn't necessarily the only factor. It's one, but then where does your logic come into play when they do these comparisons?

 

[Formula51]

People were running the Caddy's at Monticello couple weekends ago when I was there.. they were running in a different group than me so I did not have a chance to pass any.. )

M.

Nice, wasn't it Bob Lutz himself that setup the M3/M5 vs. CTS-V race eent a while back after a claim he made about the CTS-V being faster? I am pretty sure he did not personally best all the M times, although I know he beat several, but the fastest time of the even was a CTS-V if I recall correctly.

Point being that the heavy pig that is the CTS-V is a very capable car on track. Tuning at the Ring will do that for you (I really wish Ford did this).

 

[Formula51]

So why do they compare the ZR1 to a GTR, 599 GTB, and Porshe GT2?

Just saying all those cars are in different price groups....aren't they? They compare the GTR to Porshce's alot. Z06's to ferraris...So cost isn't necessarily the only factor. It's one, but then where does your logic come into play when they do these comparisons?

Its a very good point and probably the best exception. When it comes to Supercars, it seems to be an area where content varies greatly, but all anyone cares about is performance. Plus, what else would you compare the ZR1 too? There is nothing in its price point and performance, so it ends up being compared to the bigger boys. The same is true for the GT500, there is nothing of its type at its price point and performace so it ends up being compares to Corvettes and I could even see an M3/CTS-V comparison since they are more luxury and mroe expensive, but similar in performance. This is the kind of stretch that had to be made when a car is in no-mans-land. Typically it is compared to a hire caliber/quantity car to show how great of a performance bargain it is.

It is an excellent point though and supercars are clearly the grey area, as a man with enough money to buy a $110k car may have enough to buy a $150 ro 200k car as well. A guy buying a $30k car may not have a prayer of buying a $50k car.

 

[Robert M]

Not sure I follow you here. Clearly a Cobra R and a 1LE optioned Camaro are two very different cars. You should know. Isn't the 2000 Cobra R the car you had to have a racing license to buy, had no radio, and was sold it very limited numbers? I can see a magazine making a caveat that the Cobra R is not a full street car if its competition is. I see no bias there.

Not sure where you were going with the 03 Cobra and 03 Z06 either. They were two very different cars, at different price points, and the Z06 handed the Cobra its ass in everything but a straightline.



I fully agree the SRT8 Challenger should be compared to the GT500 and it was in atleast one test I can remember. The Challenger RT should be compared to a Mustang GT.



This comes down to price point and target market. Plain and simple, the Camaro SS should never have been compared to the SRT8 Challenger or GT500. The Camaro SS, Mustang GT, and Challenger RT are in the same price range with the same potential buyers. The fact that the Camaro SS could compete with and beat the much more epxensive SRT8 Challenger was impressive, but not the point of the car. As for the GT500, ask yourself this, why would a $32-35k car be compared to a $48-50k car? Especially when there is a $28-34k direct competitor in the Mustang GT to compare it to.




More importantly, it is matching the GT500 in COST and potential buyers more closely.



EXACTLY as it should be. I would love to hear the argument for why a $32-35k Camaro SS should be compared to the $50k GT500 and not the $30-35k Mustang GT.....



:nonono:

Nope, no racing license for the 2000 Cobra R, anyone with $54,995+ could buy one. The 1995 Cobra R required a sanctioned racing license, but that was to "show intent" to race, it had a title and was fully street legal. The 1LE is very much like the Cobra R, stripped of options (radio, a/c, sound deadener, etc.) for a more competitive use. The main difference that I know of between a 1LE and a Cobra R (1995 or 2000) is the fiberglass hood and Fuel Safe cell in the R-Model, and I don't think they 1LE was offered in the 2000 time frame, but the fact that the Camaro guys cryed foul because the Cobra R was a lighter weight race car was misguided, IMHO. They should have been begging for the magazine editors to test the 1LE with the 1993 and 1995 Cobra R, not bash the Cobra R's, they had an "R model" of their own that was fully street legal 1LE optioned Camaro.

I can think of no time in history when the Mustang was real competition for the top performing Covette of a specific year. It was always a "pony car thing", Mustang, Camaro, etc. When the Camaro went away, Ford kicked it up a notch or two. For Ford to even think about picking a fight with the top of the line Corvette using a Mustang was a big deal, but the Mustang was not even given credit for this venture. I feel SVT should have been given some credit. Yes, I must admit I do not know the specs on the handling and braking of the 03 Cobra vs. the Z06. To many magazine readers, acceleration is the big deal, and if the car can handle even half way decent, that is all that is required for a street car purchase, and then of course some require a rear seat. So again, for a little 4.6DOHC Mustang to be blasting down the 1/4 mile along side a top of the line Corvette, that is a huge deal.

As for price and targeted market...................

Yes, the GT500 is well above the Camaro SS in $$$, and the SRT-8 is in that same higher $$$ range, but I thought that the magazines were test arenas for these cars, state the facts both performance and $$$ across the board, and let the buyer decide from that point what fits their desire, wants and especially wallet, not exclude certain cars from certain tests (or at least the information related to those cars) for price considerations. If the 425 horse Camaro is the best that GM has to offer from the assy. line, also mention the performance specs of the best that Ford has to offer in the Mustang and let the buyer decide, don't just bring in a much lower powered Mustang for test comparision and give a small "blurb" that there is also a GT500 Shelby available.

It seems that the SRT-8 Challenger and the Camaro SS were well behind in performance from the beginning. Unless things are very strange, a 500, 540 or 550hp. S/C'ed car and a 425hp car are not going to produce the same numbers if they are anywhere close in weight. The GT500 set the mark at 500hp, back in 2007, 425/426 won't cut it.

I feel that now, Finally Ford has also gotten the message that the mid priced Mustang needs more power to compete in the $35Kish range, and it is the 412 horse GT. Now the power and price levels are comparable. Next, the Camaro better step up with some h.p., but with that h.p. will come extra $$$, so here we go well up into the $40's. Factory Horse power/performance costs $$$. The Challenger, Fiat? who knows? :shrug:

The Cadillac in this discussion? it just popped in to play, and show what "possibly" may be on the horizon for the Camaro. I welcome all of this, it is exciting!!! I guess I am different from some on this forum, I like performance cars, all of them, and I appreciate what each manufacturer brings to the testing.

R

 

[rdsnk46]

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yIXfstvZkU"]YouTube- ‪CTS-V vs. TT ZR-1‬‎[/nomedia]

I got a grudge match against my buddy in his CTS-V, me on pump gas and 18 psi. 3.6LC.
I think his car is the fastest in the country....but not 100% on that claim.

 

[GTSpartan]

YouTube- ‪CTS-V vs. TT ZR-1‬‎

I got a grudge match against my buddy in his CTS-V, me on pump gas and 18 psi. 3.6LC.
I think his car is the fastest in the country....but not 100% on that claim.

Nope, Vette Dr's have a V that has gone botton/low 10's in the high 130's. I want to say 10.20's in the 137 range, but don't know for sure.

 

[Captain Beyond]

Me too! You do know the CTS-V Sedan is VERY capable on track right? Like M3 beater capable.

I'm sure it is. The new GT500 w/the PP is also very capable. :thumbsup: