New dyno #s and a 4# vrs 6# pully compairison

[Sweet35th]

Well this past weekend of racing, I had what ended up being a plugged fuel filter that caused #6 spark plug to burn off. I repaired it at the track, and continued to back up my new best et of 12.79 @ 105.27mph Which was fallowed by a 12.80, and numerous 12.84s.

Still worried that I may have possibly hurt something, I took it to the dyno.

I went with Buzzlightyear (John). At the dyno we compaired Air charge temps between the 4# pully and the 6# pully, as well as timing and a/f tables.

What we found out was quite suprizing (although both of us did predict it).

Johns mods are as fallows (that I know).
6# Pully
14in open air fillter
Electric fan
Cobra R water pump
Custom chip.
Borla cat-back

My mods
4# pully
Dyno tuned chip by Fordchip
bassani exaust highflow cats/cat-back

The only differance in the tune was that my tune was a little more agressive because it was for cold weather/race fuel. However you will find out in the #s I show about air charge temps, that such an agressive program would most likely cause damage to running a 6# pully.

here is my dyno run.

 

[Sweet35th]

As you can see with only a 4# pully and exaust I hit the 401/502 mark.

Johns dyno #s with his 6# pully where 405rwhp/509rwtq. The 2 psi only gained him 4rwhp and 7lbs of torque. Much of which could have been attributed to the electric fan and water pump combo.

But here is where the numbers get interesting. At the start of each dyno run both vehicles were at 168degree cylinder head temp. John was running his fan, and his intercooler pump before running, so his air charge temps started off very close to ambient. IAT was 70degrees, while his air charge temp was 81degrees.

At the end of Johns dyno pull his air charge temp had reached 134degrees.

On my dyno pull, my air charge temps started at just under 100degree because I have no electric fan, or was not running the exchanger pump. At the end of my pull, my air charge temps had risen to only 114degrees!!!! 20degrees less than the 6# pullly, and with less cool down.

The 6# pully created 53degrees of heat, vrs just over 14degrees for the 4# pully. Thats HUGE. And imagine the differance if both charge temps had started closer to 130degrees, as they probably would hot right off the street, or at the track on a race day.

What this differance in air charge temps ment, is that with the 4# pully I was able to run a more agressive tune, because of the lower cylinder pressure, and air charge temps. Despite being a tune for race fuel/cold weather tune, and equal the power of the 6# pully.

I ran on average 3degrees more than Johns truck. What this also ment is the the 4# pully carried power further, and at 5000rpm the 4# pully passed teh 6#er and make more hp and torque..

My a/f is a little lean to comfortably run pump gas with this tune, even in cold weather. However richening it up with only drop power a couple horse or so, if it even drops power. And the power would easily be made back up by the electric fan and water pump.

John also tried out a custome super cooler, that made AWSOME number gains. Ill let him post about that.

Ill start this off as a discussion, I have more info and numbers to add.

 

[H46D]

Those are great numbers. I am running a 6#Pulley and had good TQ at 513 in July w/ crappy air. IMO his non agressive tune may have been a cause for lower TQ, and HP. Heat by the higher pulley is definately a hinderance after multiple runs on a Dyno or passes on a track...

 

[John M.]

The intake temps did suprise me a bit, however with my cooler that problem was solved. After I put ice in the cooler, we never saw intake temps above 100 degrees. I also agree that the more agressive timing is why the numbers took over vs mine, the dyno operator even told us this. While there is prolly no way I could get away with that much timing on the street, I could do it with my water cooler. Not to nit pick but I dont want to take anything away from my friend and tuner, I have a refalshed computer from TFHS racing. Its also important to note that Casey's truck was at least 1 full point leaner than my truck across the entire pull. While I have dyno'd the electric fan to be worth 7RWHP on my truck, We must also wonder what the high flow cats are worth on Caseys truck. In no way could I ever run a program more agressive than I have, Im very pleased. 90% of the time at the track my truck traps 106-107 in the 1/4. The program I currently have is very same for the 2600 mile roundtrips that I make 3-4 times a yr. In this trips, I travel in the middle of the night and enjoy pushing the truck to 140 for extended periods of time. At this point, Im planning on adding some sort of traction device, slicks and calling it a year. Maybe after I get a job or hit the Powerball, I will push it a little further. Until then 12.8's will have to do

 

[VENOM98]

Very informative post.......Your results are like mine in a lot of ways and has resulted in my choosing the 4# over the 6#. For mee the 5hp/10tq was not worth the extra heat and stress on the motor........Very good analysis.

 

[jakhammer]

so 400/500 is possible on a 4# pulley. Thats nice to hear, although I doubt I will see it when I am done. I dont plan on cats and probably wont do a pump of fans (well, maybe efans late next year). I also plan on a very conservative tune.

Very good info on 4 vs. 6 though. glad to see it.

Chris

 

[Sweet35th]

I dont know how much the high flow cats are worth. I dont think they are worth alot of HP, I dont think they picked up torque, and actualy moved the torque peak down a little bit.

Here are my numbers before the high flow cats and the cat-back. And with a mail order tune.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=38539

Now those are STD numbers, and are on a different dyno. My numbers SAE with the cats and cat-back, and with the same mail order tune were 481.1rwtq and 386rwhp.

You can then see with the custome dyno tune I picked up about 20rwhp and amost 20rwtq. However with a more agressive tune. Which I will have back down a little bit, however I dont think it will cost much if any HP by adding alittle bit of fuel. And if I do the super cooler that John has, I may not even back it off at all.

 

[John M.]

Casey I hate to nit pick because I do know you but I also hate when people dont post 100% of the story. You are only telling a bias side of the story, To say you would gain numbers like I have with my cooler isnt exactly fair. In this post you are comparing your numbers to my numbers when I didnt use the cooler. My numbers when I used my cooler were 421.4RWHP 535RWTQ, again on only 17 degrees total timing Vs your 21 and my truck at least 1 full point fatter across the entire RPM range. Your truck on its street tune which had timing and a/f ratios very close to mine you made 388RWHP 492RWTQ vs my 405RWHP 513RWTQ. I also went on the dyno 1st, meaning your truck had 75 minutes extra cooldown(According to times on both our dyno runs) For chits and giggles, Im willing to say the High Flow cats and Electric fan are a trade off. However if I added the extra timing and leaned her out 1/2 a point( Only 1/2 a point because I think a full point is too lean) Im sure it is safe to say your numbers would still be quite less than mine, but that would be expected because Im running more boost. I just feel that the lines this post is going is trying to take away from my truck. My truck isnt set to run all out 1/4 mile, I have to sacrafice somewhere because I take 2600 mile trips and want to do 140mph without risking the Rod/block mod. My tune is so safe, Im still running stock platinium plugs, my dyno runs were on 100% 92 octane mixture Vs your 100 octane mixture. I hate to post in a Coulda, woulda, shoulda, if I had this or that manner but like I said, I feel this post is trying to make 1 truck look good compared to another when they are very different. We both have trucks tuned for our purposes and the readers must understand everything before trying to make a informed opinion.

BTW- My tune is a mail order reflash not a dyno tune, You have a Dynotune from Jerry@Fordchip, I have a reflash using Jerry's software. Im extremely happy with the tune, I am unhappy I didnt see more tq with the cooler but that has nothing to do with my tune.

 

[H46D]

Originally posted by John M.
Casey I hate to nit pick because I do know you but I also hate when people dont post 100% of the story. You are only telling a bias side of the story, To say you would gain numbers like I have with my cooler isnt exactly fair. In this post you are comparing your numbers to my numbers when I didnt use the cooler. My numbers when I used my cooler were 421.4RWHP 535RWTQ, again on only 17 degrees total timing Vs your 21 and my truck at least 1 full point fatter across the entire RPM range. Your truck on its street tune which had timing and a/f ratios very close to mine you made 388RWHP 492RWTQ vs my 405RWHP 513RWTQ. I also went on the dyno 1st, meaning your truck had 75 minutes extra cooldown(According to times on both our dyno runs) For chits and giggles, Im willing to say the High Flow cats and Electric fan are a trade off. However if I added the extra timing and leaned her out 1/2 a point( Only 1/2 a point because I think a full point is too lean) Im sure it is safe to say your numbers would still be quite less than mine, but that would be expected because Im running more boost. I just feel that the lines this post is going is trying to take away from my truck. My truck isnt set to run all out 1/4 mile, I have to sacrafice somewhere because I take 2600 mile trips and want to do 140mph without risking the Rod/block mod. My tune is so safe, Im still running stock platinium plugs, my dyno runs were on 100% 92 octane mixture Vs your 100 octane mixture. I hate to post in a Coulda, woulda, shoulda, if I had this or that manner but like I said, I feel this post is trying to make 1 truck look good compared to another when they are very different. We both have trucks tuned for our purposes and the readers must understand everything before trying to make a informed opinion.

BTW- My tune is a mail order reflash not a dyno tune, You have a Dynotune from Jerry@Fordchip, I have a reflash using Jerry's software. Im extremely happy with the tune, I am unhappy I didnt see more tq with the cooler but that has nothing to do with my tune.

Well said. Power to the #6 Pulley. He is not Journalist is he!:lol1:

 

[Sweet35th]

Sorry John. I didnt tell the whole story cause I was waiting for your imput.

And what I meant was with the supper cooler, I feel my gains would be similar to yours, not final peak numbers...

Sorry for any confusion.

I wasnt trying to take away from your truck at all. Like I said my race gas/cold weather tune is obviously too agressive to run on street gas.

I tried to keep all the facts correct, such as both vehicles had the same operating temps when on the dyno, despite the longer cool down of mine, due to you being able to cool yours with the electric fan.

My street tune was also made only 4 minuits after my race gas pull, and the truck was not running during that time, "heat soaking" So my street gas numbers would have been slightly higher. But certainly your 6# made more low end torque, and top end power than my 4# on the street tune.

My whole point was that with a slightly more agressive tune, a 4# pully can make nearly the power of a 6# pully with less stress on the blower and possibly engine, due to lower heat created from the blower. I think your truck is making pretty damn awsome numbers for what is done to it. And would certainly see more power with a more agressive tune that would easily be usable when your running your super cooler.

 

[John M.]

:beer:


Casey, thanks and I guess its possible I read things the wrong way. This is a big problem when communicating over the net, you really can read things in different ways. :read: As I stated above, we each have our reasons and intents with our trucks, Im happy and I know you are happy with yours. The gains in heat between 4lb ring Vs 6lb ring are suprising. I want to see the numbers Jason puts out, Track or Dyno will work

 

[Sweet35th]

We already know Jasons truck is slow!

Anywho, Next race day is Oct 4rth. I am trying to get jason to come. Traction will be far better than Muffler days and fun days. Plus it should be nice and cool. You should come.

 

[kdanner]

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[retics4me]

Originally posted by Sweet35th
We already know Jasons truck is slow!

Anywho, Next race day is Oct 4rth. I am trying to get jason to come. Traction will be far better than Muffler days and fun days. Plus it should be nice and cool. You should come.

Im still faster than John by a few hundreths !! once i find traction its all over except the crying . All of us are within a few hundreths LOL. If the boss allows it i will come on the 4th . She was kind tickled that i brought a trophy home today !! Maybe she will give me some tonight