NO WOT or top speed runs in 5th/6th gear? WHY?

[venom1997]

notice when you start your 03-04 on a cold start up you probably have no piston slap but damn i have some cp pistons in mine and on a cold start up you can hear it that shows how tight the stockers are in your motors

 

[stone4779]

I still can't believe how many people buy these cars without doing their homework
I don't buy ANYTHING without researching it first

Yea before I buy a car I ask about the relationship between heat expansion of the pistons and the piston to wall clearance of that particular motor. Its not that big of a deal really...

 

[TRBO VNM]

Yea before I buy a car I ask about the relationship between heat expansion of the pistons and the piston to wall clearance of that particular motor. Its not that big of a deal really...

So You didn't get on any sites and do research about a car you were buying? Some basic searches and reading forums could have given you all the info you needed for modding, common issues and things to look for on used terminators. I spent over a year reading multiple forums and searching mods to see how these cars handled everything.

And 175mph runs? Wow, almost speechless.

 

[metaman]

What can be done about it short of changing out the pistons is simple. A very large trunk mounted intercooler reservoir filled with ice before the run. Or even better a killer chiller with the large reservoir so you do not have to mess with the ice. Then on top of that a good scan gauge mounted right in your face that you can watch closely to know when to shut it down.

I just avoid doing stupid things in a car with very little down force at high speeds. I value my life and the life of others over my desire to get an adrenaline rush or an ego boost from going super fast illegally. It would suck to spend the rest of your life in a wheel chair or living with the knowledge that you killed someone getting your rocks off.

 

[stone4779]

175 plus should be reserved for the Texas Mile in Goliad, Tx

When forged pistons are installed at close to cast piston wall clearance they can and often do grow out and contact the walls, sometimes ripping ring lands right out.

Carlos(racebroncoII) did his right, he switched to a lighter Teksid aluminum block and adjusted his piston to wall to run Manley slugs.

He runs in Cali and instructs at open track events, he is a classic example of using these cars to their full potential.

I'm pretty sure he's not doing 150+ pulls on the street.

Some Terminated Terminator pistons, some documented as top end pull victims. It would seem that ring end gap may be a tad tight as well since some of these seem to have the rings pulled out of position.

Ouch. Man sucks for those guys...I definately dont want mine to end up like that lol....thats why I asked on here, I figured a few would chime in with some good info. thanks!

Oh and I live about 3 hours from Goliad. ;-) Starting to make sense now? I am going to be getting back into racing etc etc, and I want to make sure that I can beat on it in pretty much any way and any time and it can take it without too much stuff breaking...

BTW yeah all my LSx cars have had piston slap except for the LS1 GTO I had, seems it didnt really do it... :shrug:

Would the stock block and pistons setup for a PTW clearance of .0030-.0035 do? I dont really need an aluminum block for all that do I? Becuase it expands with the pistons or something?

Thanks again! :rockon:

 

[stone4779]

So You didn't get on any sites and do research about a car you were buying? Some basic searches and reading forums could have given you all the info you needed for modding, common issues and things to look for on used terminators. I spent over a year reading multiple forums and searching mods to see how these cars handled everything.

And 175mph runs? Wow, almost speechless.

Yes I researched the car...but its not like when I was shopping for it I bought it cuz it would be "Teh Mostest Awesomest Top SPeed Car EVAH!".

I bought it because for the price it is a good starting point for pretty much anything I want to do with it. And it looks bad ass. and its got a T56, which Im very familiar with..Plus I have always been a chevy guy, but I falways did like the 03/04 Termis, so I figured I would give Ford a shot for once..

And yes, 175 MPH.

 

[lodhammerdin]

its a couple things. your eaton is a heat sink, first through fourth will heat it up something crazy anyways, a long pull through 5th and 6th gears adds tons of heat to the air. this increases detonation. the second, load on the engine and the input shaft of the transmission. that is hard on an engine, forged or not. it takes alot more effort to pull through the top two gears than 1-4.

First off SEARCH!!!!!!! but to answer you question its the tight piston to wall clearences these motors have+the heat from the eaton=expanding pistons and then boom

These are easily the best explanations here. Listen to these guys and remember the pic's. Dont ruin a perfectly good Cobra.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Ouch. Man sucks for those guys...I definately dont want mine to end up like that lol....thats why I asked on here, I figured a few would chime in with some good info. thanks!

Oh and I live about 3 hours from Goliad. ;-) Starting to make sense now? I am going to be getting back into racing etc etc, and I want to make sure that I can beat on it in pretty much any way and any time and it can take it without too much stuff breaking...

BTW yeah all my LSx cars have had piston slap except for the LS1 GTO I had, seems it didnt really do it... :shrug:

Would the stock block and pistons setup for a PTW clearance of .0030-.0035 do? I dont really need an aluminum block for all that do I? Becuase it expands with the pistons or something?

Thanks again! :rockon:

The aluminum block was just a weight saving measure while you are in there, it's totally optional.

Leaving everything as is with the exception of a minor block hone or skim cut over bore would produce a slightly louder cold engine but it would take more heat before scrubbing shirt inserts off or ripping lands out.

Some of those pistons shown were obvious detonation victims, all the tiny pock marks and melting. A rebuild won't help that.

Top end pulls can be done with a stock long block Blaine from PSI(Webster, Tx) has gone 203 at the Texas mile on a stock long block.
They are also one of the best tuners in the country, the tune is critical as is the fuel delivery, cooling, and air management mods.

 

[stone4779]

What can be done about it short of changing out the pistons is simple. A very large trunk mounted intercooler reservoir filled with ice before the run. Or even better a killer chiller with the large reservoir so you do not have to mess with the ice. Then on top of that a good scan gauge mounted right in your face that you can watch closely to know when to shut it down.

I just avoid doing stupid things in a car with very little down force at high speeds. I value my life and the life of others over my desire to get an adrenaline rush or an ego boost from going super fast illegally. It would suck to spend the rest of your life in a wheel chair or living with the knowledge that you killed someone getting your rocks off.

Naw I dont do it on public roads. Trust me Im not that stupid. maybe 120 or so once in a while when its safe, but no top speed runs on public roads lol. Im gettin a little older, and realizing that its not cool to do that stuff for many reasons. But I have done it, yes. Not any more though. Im in South Texas and there are lots of places where you can safely do your thing here...without hurting anyone..

And yea I was reading about icing the intercooler earlier today...I actually have another tab open readin a thread about it right now...and I have heard of the killer chiller....sounds interesting as well..I have an SCT Livewire which should be here Friday so I will be using that to monitor everything...right now the car is parked until I get it tuned..I am still weighing my options at this point...I wont be attending the Texas Mile this year, but maybe next year. right now I am more focused on the drag strip but I would like to venture into other things later..just reading at this point.

Im glad that you guys offered your input...its been a long time since I really hit up the forums because I havent beem in the game for a few years but now I find myself readin on here more and more.The damn bug bit me again and it wont let go lol :cuss: But I love it. Nice to know theres places where us gearheads can put our heads together.

 

[stone4779]

The aluminum block was just a weight saving measure while you are in there, it's totally optional.

Leaving everything as is with the exception of a minor block hone or skim cut over bore would produce a slightly louder cold engine but it would take more heat before scrubbing shirt inserts off or ripping lands out.

Some of those pistons shown were obvious detonation victims, all the tiny pock marks and melting. A rebuild won't help that.

Top end pulls can be done with a stock long block Blaine from PSI(Webster, Tx) has gone 203 at the Texas mile on a stock long block.
They are also one of the best tuners in the country, the tune is critical as is the fuel delivery, cooling, and air management mods.

Oh OK, well thats good because that wouldnt be cheap.

And like I said above Im used to piston slap it dont bother me..The cars so dang loud you wouldnt be able to hear it anyways lol..

All in all it doesnt really sound like that big of a deal then...you just cant do it on a stock Termi. Take steps to prevent it from happening(damaging a piston), and proceed cautiously. Great! I plan on tinkering with the SCT Pro Package sometime soon. I have experience tuning GM vehicles with HPTuners and it was sooo easy to get great results with that, I am hoping I will be able to master tuning Fords as well. I am going to have to do a lot more reading. I could read about car stuff all day lol...op:

 

[stone4779]

These are easily the best explanations here. Listen to these guys and remember the pic's. Dont ruin a perfectly good Cobra.

Thanks! I will keep that in mind!

 

[racebronco2]

The heat from the blower I pretty much figured that...but I didnt know the PTW clearance was a factor.. Thank you for that new tidbit...

Soooo apart from swapping to a twin screw or turbo you're pretty much restricted 1-4 WOT runs huh? Well that kindof sucks but I guess not a real issue as its my daily driver...but when I had my Z28 I used to take it out for a 175+ run quite often and it was great...wish it wasnt such a big deal but I guess eventually the eaton is coming off anyways so my next question is this:

If you remove the eaton, and go twin screw, or turbo(big fat intercooler of course) IS this still a problem? Would the pistons heat and expand enough to do damage with a more efficient power adder? Side note: Would a 50 shot of nitrous keep it cool enough lol? I have had the NOS plate kit for like 4 months just havent put it on yet...

The blower is a heat sink because it is absorbing the heat from the engine not creating it. Twin screw or turbo you must be able to cool the engine and without a real heat extractor hood no ones been able to do it. Just because one power adder is more efficient then another doesn't mean it will run cooler, intake temps but not engine temps.

What can be done about it short of changing out the pistons is simple. A very large trunk mounted intercooler reservoir filled with ice before the run. Or even better a killer chiller with the large reservoir so you do not have to mess with the ice. Then on top of that a good scan gauge mounted right in your face that you can watch closely to know when to shut it down.

I just avoid doing stupid things in a car with very little down force at high speeds. I value my life and the life of others over my desire to get an adrenaline rush or an ego boost from going super fast illegally. It would suck to spend the rest of your life in a wheel chair or living with the knowledge that you killed someone getting your rocks off.

Thanks! I will keep that in mind!

Cooling the intake charge is not going to help the car run cooler.

 

[Jroc]

Stock boost with a conservitve tune would probably be fine for high speed runs. As already said running WOT in you OD gears puts a much bigger load on the motor than running WOT in your 1-4 gears. This creates a lot more heat. And then the cycle begins.

Another thing that engine builders who are experience with building motors for these cars do besides just giving the pistons more clearance is they use pistons that lower the piston rings down farther than on they are on the stock pistons. I believe this helps create less heat, and it lets you get more liberal with your tune.

IMO a good rebuild is one of the only worthwhile/effective cooling mods for these cars when used as a street car.

BTW that rebuild should include some January 05 heads. It would be stupid to rebuild the motor to get cooler temps, and better reliabily for high speed runs, and then still use heads with cooling issues(all pre-05 4v heads) that bake the #7, and #8 cylinders in particular. Don't buy into the HCM hype.

 

[stone4779]

Cooling the intake charge is not going to help the car run cooler.

:bash: woops I have been so focused on IATs that I forgot about good old regular cooling mods...I have a lower temp thermostat layin around somewhere...thats a good start...and no it has a 2.76 upper only so its not stock boost level..its still waiting for the tune so I wont know how much boost until then...racebronco: Youve got a very similar setup to what I am doing..I havent ported the blower yet but I have spoken to Brian a few times already and I will be porting it soon. I want to try it with just the pulley for a while..at least until I get bored with it again lol..hopefully it puts out good numbers and times and there are no dumb issues that I need to work out because I have a laundry list off stuff I want to do and that would just prolong my wait..heck its been so long since Ive been to the track Im sure Im going to need to get used to it all again...staging, burnouts, getting good 60's etc.. Heck I dont even have a cage yet :shrug: Got weight reduction to do as well...lots of odds n ends OMG it never ends once it starts lol...

 

[stone4779]

Stock boost with a conservitve tune would probably be fine for high speed runs. As already said running WOT in you OD gears puts a much bigger load on the motor than running WOT in your 1-4 gears. This creates a lot more heat. And then the cycle begins.

Another thing that engine builders who are experience with building motors for these cars do besides just giving the pistons more clearance is they use pistons that lower the piston rings down farther than on they are on the stock pistons. I believe this helps create less heat, and it lets you get more liberal with your tune.

IMO a good rebuild is one of the only worthwhile/effective cooling mods for these cars when used as a street car.

BTW that rebuild should include some January 05 heads. It would be stupid to rebuild the motor to get cooler temps, and better reliabily for high speed runs, and then still use heads with cooling issues(all pre-05 4v heads) that bake the #7, and #8 cylinders in particular. Don't buy into the HCM hype.

I am going to go read up on this right now...now that I recall I remember reading an article somewhere on this...

 

[Nolimit]

So to be able to produce 5th gear pulls in the Texas mile races.....

Bore over .002 or .003 to be safe
High quality forged pistons (2618 or 4126)
Look for pistons with lowered rings
Killer chiller
Some sort of head cooling mod
Revised heads if you can get them
160 thermostat
Bigger radiator and heat exchanger
TVS,whipple,kenne bell, turbo
Good solid tune of course

This pretty much sum it up? I left e85 out due to lack of availability for some.