eci said:
Why does anyone that posts information about something that they do not agree with or is diffrent get called a hater?
Stop believing the early numbers!
- Thread starter 85sTaNg
- Start date
Why does anyone that posts information about something that they do not agree with or is diffrent get called a hater?
It might be more appropriate to state that after a GT500 has been properly broken-in, had an oil change and the engine has "loosened" up a bit that the dyno numbers on that particular car may increase. This is pretty commonly accepted theory.eci said:
As far as the 412rwhp car, I think most of us feel that there is something out of whack with such a low number.
Time, and more dyno numbers (and track times!) will tell.
S.
There is alot of misinformation in this thread..
Fact:
-Yes, people were asserting contantly that with very light mods, (near stock) that this car would go 10's several months ago!! I know because I have watched these idiots for quite some time now on this site, and I was arguing with them back then, to be realistic.. Infact, 11's were a foregone conclusion for a stock car.. Now they are all scrambling to save face, and acting like noone ever said it.
Reality is starting to hit, and their numbers are starting to get more realistic lately.. Thank god for that! But I still think they are :loser:
Fact:Out of about 9 or so recent Gt500 magazine tests, only Muscle Mustangs, (A Ford publication, at a Ford press event, with Muscle Mustang's Evan Smith driving, and with a rumoured non stock tune ) turned low 12's. Every other magazine has gone high 12's and low 13's. :shrug: Low 12's will be unrealistic for 95% of drivers out there with this car.
Soon, with more tests, we will know for sure. the question to ask yourself....Are high 12's a bad thing?!?!?
Fact: 412rwhp on a hot day with the blower heatsoaked, is not such a bad number.. Expect atleast another 20-30 rwhp when the car is properly cooled down and in better air alone!!! C'mon people!:bash: use common sense. Since my first post, I have realized that this is why the car probably gained so much on the second pull. It wasnt because of the mufflers or the Gears.. It was because the car had time to cool off during the muffler install!:idea:
The GT500 will post Good dyno numbers.. My guess 420-440 range, stock. :rockon:
But it weighs (Fact) 3900 pounds!!!, So its still not going to be blazingly fast.:shrug: Simple physics.
Expect high 12's from normal drivers. (Around the same as an 03 cobra, maybe a click or two faster if lucky.)
FAct:
This car is not worth a dime above retail. If you pay a dealer markup, you are an idiot and deserve to lose your money.
Im not a hater of the GT500 (althought I do hate the dealers right now:nonono: ). This is just reality people.
Here I am, over a year ago, at Carlisle. I drove all the way to the Ford show just to see this car. I had been waiting for it to be released, 2 years prior anf followed it throuh its entire development.
God has it been that long.. 2-3 years I have been waiting for this car!
I just wish they left it the way you see it in that pic, and for the price they had originally promised.
Fact:
-Yes, people were asserting contantly that with very light mods, (near stock) that this car would go 10's several months ago!! I know because I have watched these idiots for quite some time now on this site, and I was arguing with them back then, to be realistic.. Infact, 11's were a foregone conclusion for a stock car.. Now they are all scrambling to save face, and acting like noone ever said it.
Reality is starting to hit, and their numbers are starting to get more realistic lately.. Thank god for that! But I still think they are :loser:
Fact:Out of about 9 or so recent Gt500 magazine tests, only Muscle Mustangs, (A Ford publication, at a Ford press event, with Muscle Mustang's Evan Smith driving, and with a rumoured non stock tune ) turned low 12's. Every other magazine has gone high 12's and low 13's. :shrug: Low 12's will be unrealistic for 95% of drivers out there with this car.
Soon, with more tests, we will know for sure. the question to ask yourself....Are high 12's a bad thing?!?!?
Fact: 412rwhp on a hot day with the blower heatsoaked, is not such a bad number.. Expect atleast another 20-30 rwhp when the car is properly cooled down and in better air alone!!! C'mon people!:bash: use common sense. Since my first post, I have realized that this is why the car probably gained so much on the second pull. It wasnt because of the mufflers or the Gears.. It was because the car had time to cool off during the muffler install!:idea:
The GT500 will post Good dyno numbers.. My guess 420-440 range, stock. :rockon:
But it weighs (Fact) 3900 pounds!!!, So its still not going to be blazingly fast.:shrug: Simple physics.
Expect high 12's from normal drivers. (Around the same as an 03 cobra, maybe a click or two faster if lucky.)
FAct:
This car is not worth a dime above retail. If you pay a dealer markup, you are an idiot and deserve to lose your money.
Im not a hater of the GT500 (althought I do hate the dealers right now:nonono: ). This is just reality people.
Here I am, over a year ago, at Carlisle. I drove all the way to the Ford show just to see this car. I had been waiting for it to be released, 2 years prior anf followed it throuh its entire development.
God has it been that long.. 2-3 years I have been waiting for this car!
I just wish they left it the way you see it in that pic, and for the price they had originally promised.
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I still stand by the fact that the car will run 11's stock w/ tires and a good driver (I intend to prove this one myself, if I can keep it stock long enough to get to a decent track). I also think with bolt on's it will run 10's.
The 412 dyno numbers are BS...the car was hot (no doubt pulling timing), the weather was hot and humid and the engine isn't even close to being broken in with 250 miles on it.
The 412 dyno numbers are BS...the car was hot (no doubt pulling timing), the weather was hot and humid and the engine isn't even close to being broken in with 250 miles on it.
Purvis said:There is alot of misinformation in this thread..
Fact:
-Yes, people were asserting contantly that with very light mods, (near stock) that this car would go 10's several months ago!! I know because I have watched these idiots for quite some time now on this site, and I was arguing with them back then, to be realistic.. Infact, 11's were a foregone conclusion for a stock car.. Now they are all scrambling to save face, and acting like noone ever said it.
Reality is starting to hit, and their numbers are starting to get more realistic lately.. Thank god for that! But I still think they are :loser:
Fact:Out of about 9 or so recent Gt500 magazine tests, only Muscle Mustangs, (A Ford publication, at a Ford press event, with Muscle Mustang's Evan Smith driving, and with a rumoured non stock tune ) turned low 12's. Every other magazine has gone high 12's and low 13's. :shrug: Low 12's will be unrealistic for 95% of drivers out there with this car.
Soon, with more tests, we will know for sure. the question to ask yourself....Are high 12's a bad thing?!?!?
Fact: 412rwhp on a hot day with the blower heatsoaked, is not such a bad number.. Expect atleast another 20-30 rwhp when the car is properly cooled down and in better air alone!!! C'mon people!:bash: use common sense. Since my first post, I have realized that this is why the car probably gained so much on the second pull. It wasnt because of the mufflers or the Gears.. It was because the car had time to cool off during the muffler install!:idea:
The GT500 will post Good dyno numbers.. My guess 420-440 range, stock. :rockon:
But it weighs (Fact) 3900 pounds!!!, So its still not going to be blazingly fast.:shrug: Simple physics.
Expect high 12's from normal drivers. (Around the same as an 03 cobra, maybe a click or two faster if lucky.)
FAct:
This car is not worth a dime above retail. If you pay a dealer markup, you are an idiot and deserve to lose your money.
Im not a hater of the GT500 (althought I do hate the dealers right now:nonono: ). This is just reality people.
Here I am, over a year ago, at Carlisle. I drove all the way to the Ford show just to see this car. I had been waiting for it to be released, 2 years prior anf followed it throuh its entire development.
God has it been that long.. 3-4 years I have been waiting for this car!
I just wish they left it the way you see it in that pic, and for the price they had originally promised.
That exact car there was perfect! IMO
It was my dream car and if I had 300k I would have spent it for that
It had the perfect looks IMO twin screw blower, and those gorgeous 19 wheels with a killer stance.
Imagine what could have been
Instead we have a car priced higher than the concept was meant to be and performs the same as an 03/04
Now back to reality
Its a great car but worth nothing more than msrp
Its that simple
chuckstang said:
chuckstang,
-Buy a 2007 Shelby at the end of the year for retail.
-Order it with stripe delete..
-Buy a custom hood that matches the concept, and have it painted to match
-Take it right to the body shop and have Lemans stripes put on the way they should have been from the factory. With paint!
-Have them put the Shelby lettering across the back of the car correctly and have the trunk lid/brake light switched around like the concept.
-Buy lowering springs and lower the car, like the concept.
-Buy lighter racing seats.Together, with a lighter hood, you might be able to get the weight down to around 3800 pounds, and not have to give up your back seat..
Oh and I dont think they used that "red" on the final car, which is unfortunate, because I really liked it.
You can do all that for alot less than $300,000.;-)
If and when I get one, Its going right to the body shop for some real stripes and lowering springs...
Hmmm? Strange lookin' Hood on that one??!
I actually prefer the Production Version now. Powerdome.
85sTaNg said:
For every GT500 hater, there is a fanboy.
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http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302373 :nonono:Gloveperson said:
dgussin1 said:
stock with a tire is an oxymoron. Sticky tires are not stock, hence the car is modified. period.
You sure the car was hot. That doesn't seem to be the case. posted by FordGeek:
2.) The best of the inital dyno runs (412) came after a lengthy cool down. The swap took around 2 hours so some additional cooling may have impacted the numbers for the post-swap set.
Seems he let the car cool down for a while. Not to mention, isn't the car gonna be hot when you drive it? hence his numbers were more accurate than a car that is dead nuts cold, ice on the intake, etc.
250 miles isn't broken in? you tell me, what is breaking in on that motor for 250 miles? Seems to me that the rings were seated by the time his ass hit the seat.
the car is nice and obviously you are defending it cause you bought one, but you might end up being disappointed.
i personally care hahaha.DRK281 said:
thank god they dont make live axles that fit 03/04 cobras
quadcammer said:
If the car was NOT heat soaked on the first run AND they picked up 30hp with a gear and muffler change SOMEBODY is lying to us about SOMETHING?:idea:
That's all I'm going to say! :thumbsup: :coolman: :beer:
I don't think anyone was lying. FordGeek is a stand-up guy, long time Mustanger and knows his way around Ford modulars and the track.
All he did was be the first to post the ACTUAL numbers that came of the first runs of his brand-new GT500 on a the dyno-jet as they occurred. And the place he went to he's used plenty of times before on other cars.
Some comments:
-The car had only a couple hours worth of miles on it at best!
Blown motors gain power big-time as the rings seat-in. This motor was not broken-in in any meaningful way.
-the dyno-jet isn't an environmentally controlled dyno.
Though they're supposed to adjust for RH + Temp, they don't often do it very well -- we should consider these numbers anecdotal of that place/time/conditions.
-the air that day was 87%RH and 104F!
That's gotta suck a good 40HP out from optimum conditions and the first pull was on a Houston-driven heat-soaked engine. The second pull likely benefited from the ring break-in of the first pull AND the 2-hour cool down while the 4.10s went in.
Personally, I've heard (from Ford GT500 rep) that Ford dyno'd this motor at 525HPcrank under ideal conditions and expects rwHP under similar conditions in the 465-475 range properly tuned. He also told me they also baselined it with CAI intake, headers and overdriven blower and found near 650crankHP with little trouble. He said that 650HP was the design point for the bottom end of the motor and the drive-train and that Ford was leaving those mods to the aftermarket (and FRPP, I presume). Can't wait to see what the aftermarket shows for it at SEMA this October!!!
So, I'm kinda liking +/-450HP at 104F on it's second pull! Am I missing something?
Admittedly, I'd much rather see it eval'd on a Superflow 901 where all inputs are environmentally controlled and therefore results are absolutely comparable from pull-to-pull AND day-to-day. I'm hoping someone in the Dallas-Ft.Worth area brings one over to RayMac Racing or R&E in Lancaster CA or 3V Racing up in Saco, Maine -- anywhere we can see some Superflow pulls -- then we'll know more -- cause these dyno-jets and Mustang dynos, while usefull, are toys compared to the industrial, contolled, calibrated and fully repeatable units like the Supeflow 901 that serious race shops rely on. Still, I do want to see what FordGeek gets with the mods he's planning, but anything on a mustang or dynojet will be anecdotal at best IMHO.
All he did was be the first to post the ACTUAL numbers that came of the first runs of his brand-new GT500 on a the dyno-jet as they occurred. And the place he went to he's used plenty of times before on other cars.
Some comments:
-The car had only a couple hours worth of miles on it at best!
Blown motors gain power big-time as the rings seat-in. This motor was not broken-in in any meaningful way.
-the dyno-jet isn't an environmentally controlled dyno.
Though they're supposed to adjust for RH + Temp, they don't often do it very well -- we should consider these numbers anecdotal of that place/time/conditions.
-the air that day was 87%RH and 104F!
That's gotta suck a good 40HP out from optimum conditions and the first pull was on a Houston-driven heat-soaked engine. The second pull likely benefited from the ring break-in of the first pull AND the 2-hour cool down while the 4.10s went in.
Personally, I've heard (from Ford GT500 rep) that Ford dyno'd this motor at 525HPcrank under ideal conditions and expects rwHP under similar conditions in the 465-475 range properly tuned. He also told me they also baselined it with CAI intake, headers and overdriven blower and found near 650crankHP with little trouble. He said that 650HP was the design point for the bottom end of the motor and the drive-train and that Ford was leaving those mods to the aftermarket (and FRPP, I presume). Can't wait to see what the aftermarket shows for it at SEMA this October!!!
So, I'm kinda liking +/-450HP at 104F on it's second pull! Am I missing something?
Admittedly, I'd much rather see it eval'd on a Superflow 901 where all inputs are environmentally controlled and therefore results are absolutely comparable from pull-to-pull AND day-to-day. I'm hoping someone in the Dallas-Ft.Worth area brings one over to RayMac Racing or R&E in Lancaster CA or 3V Racing up in Saco, Maine -- anywhere we can see some Superflow pulls -- then we'll know more -- cause these dyno-jets and Mustang dynos, while usefull, are toys compared to the industrial, contolled, calibrated and fully repeatable units like the Supeflow 901 that serious race shops rely on. Still, I do want to see what FordGeek gets with the mods he's planning, but anything on a mustang or dynojet will be anecdotal at best IMHO.
ac427cobra said:
i don't think anybody is lying. however, heat soaked is different than barely at operating temp, which is different than 160 degrees ect.
the car was given time to cool down, and the run was probably made at about 195 degrees of coolant temp, which is operating temp.
If the after dyno was done at 165 degrees, im sure it did make more power.
250 miles is a few more than than a few hours of run time.
not to mention, that I think there are some very different ideas about breakin.
from everything i understand, the modern plasma moly rings seat in the first 30 miles of run time.
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
not to mention, that I think there are some very different ideas about breakin.
from everything i understand, the modern plasma moly rings seat in the first 30 miles of run time.
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
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why don't we wait for some others to dyno before me consider this the gospel.quadcammer said:
From a scientific stand point, we would need at least 30 samples before having any substantial data to back up a theory. With that being said, how about 5 more people from different parts of the country...
Silver2003Cobra said:
Thats exactly what I thought. I thought part the idea behind the design of the S197 was to have a chassis that was actually compatiable with an IRS setup. Seems a bit topsy turvey to me. Not that it matters since I dont have any interest in the new cars anyway.
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