that sounds sick svtdice. i want to do the same build one day but idk if i will. i cant wait to see how that thing performs. what fuel will it be running. glad to see some one doesnt care when people say it wont work. thats how progress is made.
Why isn't compound boost more popular?
- Thread starter GRFox
- Start date
Yeah, Its going to be sick indeed! :rockon: But he is planning on going with E85 for weekends and upping to E98 for the track. Now the full details for the full fuel system we are still working on. Right now we are talking about what we are all going to need for the fully built block, Etc.
The idea is nice, The HP/TQ Curve is insane. Its going to take alot of work but its his money and I think its going to honestly be a badass project. I totally agree with you about the progress statement. Nothing ventured nothing gained right?
There are some very highly detailed compound threads on this site with tons of good info. Not BS guesses and 3rd hand info from people with 500hp that have basic mods trying to comment against people with 1000hp cars with tens of thousands of dollars in mods.
Compound boost is very viable and a fun setup. The problem is 99% of people want to get the most power they possibly can as cheap as possible and that rules out compound boost. Those same people are usually ignorant of the full cost of their power goal regardless of the means they use to get there.
Over the years I've gotten tons of messages about compound boost from people who want to get into a 750-1000hp car for 5-7k. That just doesn't work. They think they can cut corners and not get a insane fuel system or new rear end or new/cracked out tranny or a new motor or any of the other big investments that they will either need to purchase in the beginning or be forced to purchase when they're car is dead in the water shortly after the power starts to take its toll.
In following that thought process people think they can make a compound setup work at 500-600hp and then bash the extra money needed to get minimal gains over other setups. That's like trying to kill a ant with a tank. It's silly, yet the ignorant still comment. Compound boost is only really viable for 800hp or more, ideally 1000-1400.
If you want a compound setup that will be fully usable for its intended purpose which would be to have a massive hp car without needing to give up street driving fun with massive turbos then the ideal setup is to run two big turbos through a ported eaton and make +1200hp on E85 at 25-35 psi. You do that with the following mods:
Full ported eaton setup, stock pulley
Complete turbo kit with Two 60-something turbos.
Built motor stroked out or "Stock" 5.4+
Built T56 or auto
Built rear
Full front suspension to support turbo build piping
Complete E85 fuel system for 1200hp
Total cost of above parts probably close to 20k if done properly. In reality if you want that power, whether you decided to go compound or not those costs would be there regardless. The part that makes a big twin kit "compound" is really just the $1500 eaton assembly. Otherwise you'd just remove the eaton and stick on a regular lower+upper+tb and route your piping into that. There is no "reliability" issues with a proper compound setup or "gremlins." 95% of people that go compound had gremlins because they didn't realize you can't really do a viable low budget compound setup at 700hp. Not because the setup is flawed or idea is bad.
Compound boost is very viable and a fun setup. The problem is 99% of people want to get the most power they possibly can as cheap as possible and that rules out compound boost. Those same people are usually ignorant of the full cost of their power goal regardless of the means they use to get there.
Over the years I've gotten tons of messages about compound boost from people who want to get into a 750-1000hp car for 5-7k. That just doesn't work. They think they can cut corners and not get a insane fuel system or new rear end or new/cracked out tranny or a new motor or any of the other big investments that they will either need to purchase in the beginning or be forced to purchase when they're car is dead in the water shortly after the power starts to take its toll.
In following that thought process people think they can make a compound setup work at 500-600hp and then bash the extra money needed to get minimal gains over other setups. That's like trying to kill a ant with a tank. It's silly, yet the ignorant still comment. Compound boost is only really viable for 800hp or more, ideally 1000-1400.
If you want a compound setup that will be fully usable for its intended purpose which would be to have a massive hp car without needing to give up street driving fun with massive turbos then the ideal setup is to run two big turbos through a ported eaton and make +1200hp on E85 at 25-35 psi. You do that with the following mods:
Full ported eaton setup, stock pulley
Complete turbo kit with Two 60-something turbos.
Built motor stroked out or "Stock" 5.4+
Built T56 or auto
Built rear
Full front suspension to support turbo build piping
Complete E85 fuel system for 1200hp
Total cost of above parts probably close to 20k if done properly. In reality if you want that power, whether you decided to go compound or not those costs would be there regardless. The part that makes a big twin kit "compound" is really just the $1500 eaton assembly. Otherwise you'd just remove the eaton and stick on a regular lower+upper+tb and route your piping into that. There is no "reliability" issues with a proper compound setup or "gremlins." 95% of people that go compound had gremlins because they didn't realize you can't really do a viable low budget compound setup at 700hp. Not because the setup is flawed or idea is bad.
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I've been toying around with doing a big single compound remotely mounted under the rear seat area(replacing the mufflers. I would cut and raise the rear seat buckets to make more room. If you have ever removed your mufflers yourself, you would see there is plenty of room if you cut and raise the rear seat buckets. The only things I would have to worry about are oil delivery to the turbo and piping. I already have an overkill fuel system for a ported eaton.
I made a post a while back mentioning my idea. The rear mounted turbo is not optimal I know, but I already have long tubes and I wouldn't want a large turbo at the front of an already nose heavy car. Plus, unless you have forward facing exhaust manifolds for a front mounted turbo, the exhaust tubing will be almost as long as it would be with LT's and a turbo under the rear seat. Still, are you going to notice that little heat loss in a compound setup? I would think its worth the small sacrifice for the easier install.
I made a post a while back mentioning my idea. The rear mounted turbo is not optimal I know, but I already have long tubes and I wouldn't want a large turbo at the front of an already nose heavy car. Plus, unless you have forward facing exhaust manifolds for a front mounted turbo, the exhaust tubing will be almost as long as it would be with LT's and a turbo under the rear seat. Still, are you going to notice that little heat loss in a compound setup? I would think its worth the small sacrifice for the easier install.
Not sure if this person is on this site but this car is sick looking no idea how much power. This picture was at the Sturgis Mustang Rally
Compounding isn't as popular for the exact reasons that many have listed. It's expensive to do correctly and the majority of those willing to try it are not willing to spend the money. There a a good number of guys compounding diesel trucks by adding a s/cer to their already turboed diesels. It isn't easy, it isn't cheap, but it DOES work. It is also true that too many people tune for MAX topend power, getting the most HP of anyone and forget that it'll be a turd if they wanna drive it b/c it doesn't make any power before 5000 rpm. Remember all of the millions of videos of 1000+hp Supra dyno-queens? Yeah....they were getting trounced at the track by 500-600 hp cars that were tuned to actually be driven.
Scrap the blower and run a small shot of nitrous to get the low end torque you wanted. Much cheaper, much simpler, just as cool.
Ya then on the street you have to worry about your bottle always being full and warm and purged. Hp sells cars on Monday but tq wins races on Sunday.
Horsepower is torque. With leverage. :shrug:
You new here? These things take 850hp+ on stock internals all day :shrug: Some even 1000+
Not for any reliable amount of time on a repeatable basis. Tops 700 if you wanted to see long safe life.
Exactly, Hot rod magazine made 1200fwhp on a stock 4.8 ls truck motor on an engine dyno. You put that in a car and youd be lucky to make a pass with it.
Hate to say it but I agree.. 700 is even pushing it. Depends on if you actually drive the car at that power level. That's my experience at least.
most wont upgrade from the stock eaton (percent wise of all owners), and of those that do very few want to spend that much or have that hassle so .... those that do simply go a different route.
I think it is a cool concept just never crossed my mind when going turbo and heres why it didnt work for me
-Cobras are already to heavy in the front and your adding extra weight with multiple power added
-The stock intercooler isn't very efficient
-Supercharger Drive Belt Loss
-Extra Stress on the crank
-And of Course price -- When I went turbo I shopped around and pretty much broken even when upgrading my eaton setup to single 76
-Cobras are already to heavy in the front and your adding extra weight with multiple power added
-The stock intercooler isn't very efficient
-Supercharger Drive Belt Loss
-Extra Stress on the crank
-And of Course price -- When I went turbo I shopped around and pretty much broken even when upgrading my eaton setup to single 76
Not at all. Easy to drive on and no fabrication using the Hellion Hellraiser kit. You don't use 2 heat exhangers. Just upgrade to a dual pass Afco and be done with it. You also will not see anything under the hood with the Hellion system.
Theirs a bunch out there running the Hellion kit. We just did a 04 Mystic recently. You would have no idea theirs tubros on it. Works fine.
Not true. Takes some time but nothing crazy. Your buying 2 turbos remember that. But you can make more power just with Twins but you wont have the trq down low.
Your adding 2 turbos but your also swapping to a full tubular k member set up so your loosing a lot more than gaining.
Theirs no extra stress on the crank .YOu run a stock pulley system. No need to touch the factory set up
The blower will hold you back no matter what but what it will do is give you the stock 7-9psi off the line so you can get the turbo's to spool faster than taking over and giving you their 10lbs or so.
Here are some pics of the Compoun boosted 04 we just recently did.
Mods are:
STOCK MOTOR & Blower
Stock T56
ID1000 Injectors
Hellion TT set up
BBR Return Style Fuel system w/ A1000
Spec Clutch
SCT BA5000 MAF
Car made 689rwhp.
Car is daily driven for 2 months now. Its pretty badass and safe.
Pic of just the kit
Car is daily driven for 2 months now. Its pretty badass and safe.
Pic of just the kit
Rough price range for the entire setup listed including install out the door?
Here are some pics of the Compoun boosted 04 we just recently did.
Mods are:
STOCK MOTOR & Blower
Stock T56
ID1000 Injectors
Hellion TT set up
BBR Return Style Fuel system w/ A1000
Spec Clutch
SCT BA5000 MAF
Car made 689rwhp.
Car is daily driven for 2 months now. Its pretty badass and safe.
Pic of just the kit
How much total boost was the 689rwhp made on?
Any chance you have a dyno graph of that run?
For the record I am a huge compound boost fan and plan to do it myself.
Not true. Takes some time but nothing crazy. Your buying 2 turbos remember that. But you can make more power just with Twins but you wont have the trq down low.
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What about that statement isn't true.
Relative to a single power adder setup a compound setups is more complex, unreliable, difficult to tune, and hugely more expensive. Not saying it can't be done. Just answering op's original post. "why isn't compound setups more popular." And I guess unreliable may not be the best way to say it, but there's just more to go wrong.
With that being said I think it would be very cool to run a compound setup. It's just not that practical for your average gear head.
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What about that statement isn't true.
Relative to a single power adder setup a compound setups is more complex, unreliable, difficult to tune, and hugely more expensive. Not saying it can't be done. Just answering op's original post. "why isn't compound setups more popular." And I guess unreliable may not be the best way to say it, but there's just more to go wrong.
With that being said I think it would be very cool to run a compound setup. It's just not that practical for your average gear head.
Please call for pricing
It was a combination of 18lbs. 8 from the stock blower and the other 10 were from the turbo's.
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