2 step and timing chain tensioners???

[OWTerminator]

I have read in a few places that if you use a 2 step without modifying the timing chain tensioners it can cause the timing chains to over tighten and cause problems. Is this really an issue? Or is this just another "so and so said to do this because of this" with no real evidence or data to back it up? Anyone ever had timing chain issues because you used a 2 step?

 

[badcobra]

A 2 step is hard on all the timing parts. You're not going to have issues with your tensioners or chains if you use a 2-step. However, if the engine is apart, modify the tensioners by grinding the teeth. The biggest issue really is the stock primary chain arms breaking. It's a good idea to upgrade to billet if the engine is out.

 

[OWTerminator]

I've only tried it once to make sure it worked and was considering trying it at the track to see if I could use it to get my 60' times down a little more. I might just hold off on it this year and do some timing upgrades next winter.

 

[jrgoffin]

I have read in a few places that if you use a 2 step without modifying the timing chain tensioners it can cause the timing chains to over tighten and cause problems. Is this really an issue? Or is this just another "so and so said to do this because of this" with no real evidence or data to back it up? Anyone ever had timing chain issues because you used a 2 step?

It's something that Sean Hyland advocates, so not really a "so and so said..." thing like most of what is on forums. His solution is to just remove the ratchet and replace it with a machined spacer. This also takes tension off the front cam journal. I don't race, but removed the ratchets anyways.

There is a big discussion on it, showing the spacers installed, in this build thread (initially with modified ratchets then a change to just the spacers):

http://www.modularfords.com/threads/236857-Aluminator-Gibtec-Build

 

[SVTdreamin04]

Wow, I never even thought of this! Glad I stumbled on this thread. It makes sense once you think about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Nightmare302]

It's something that Sean Hyland advocates, so not really a "so and so said..." thing like most of what is on forums. His solution is to just remove the ratchet and replace it with a machined spacer. This also takes tension off the front cam journal. I don't race, but removed the ratchets anyways.

There is a big discussion on it, showing the spacers installed, in this build thread (initially with modified ratchets then a change to just the spacers):

http://www.modularfords.com/threads/236857-Aluminator-Gibtec-Build

View attachment 1480369

The advantage of the spacer is that during no oil pressure it will still keep the piston extended and "some" pressure on the guide/chain. The grinding is to prevent the piston from "locking out" in an extended position. The spacer kind of helps the lock out but grinding is free and easy and has no adverse issues.

 

[jrgoffin]

The advantage of the spacer is that during no oil pressure it will still keep the piston extended and "some" pressure on the guide/chain. The grinding is to prevent the piston from "locking out" in an extended position. The spacer kind of helps the lock out but grinding is free and easy and has no adverse issues.

Yes, all covered in my build thread. The amount ground off the ratchet should roughly equal the thickness of the spacer, which is still more precise. I simply swapped to the these since SHM was willing to produce them again, and the advertisement helped. Both would have functioned fine, but I liked the idea of knowing the tensioner was nice and "clean" even though I don't plan to look at it again in the foreseeable future.

 

[SVT_Troy]

When building my engine a few years ago I didn't use a spacer but i grounded the last few teeth of the ratchet to relieve the tension on the chain. Would this spacer be an alternative to grinding the last 2-3 teeth?

If memory serve me correctly Sean Hyland covered these two mods in his book?

 

[jrgoffin]

See Post #4.

 

[Nightmare302]

When building my engine a few years ago I didn't use a spacer but i grounded the last few teeth of the ratchet to relieve the tension on the chain. Would this spacer be an alternative to grinding the last 2-3 teeth?

If memory serve me correctly Sean Hyland covered these two mods in his book?

They work together. The spacer prevents collapse in a no oil pressure situation, the grinding of the teeth prevents the tensioner from locking out. While the spacer if thick enough could also "prevent" the "tighter" teeth from catching.

 

[jrgoffin]

They work together.

Not.

The purpose of grinding the teeth off the ratchet is so it won't "hyper-extend" and put excess pressure on the chain, which is turn puts excess pressure on the #1 cam journal(s), which will then cause premature wear. This is what SHM (and John Mihovetz) discovered was happening with the two-step during high RPM launches for the drag-racers. The ratchet works one way: once it extends, the teeth keep it from retracting. After you grind the teeth off, it only extends with oil pressure but then "collapses" at essentially the same length as the spacer would take up behind the piston.

Adding the spacer and leaving in a modified ratchet is useless. The ratchet will just sit there and do nothing since it cannot extend due to the teeth missing (other than moving due to oil pressure behind the piston), and the piston will not collapse since the spacer is behind it. Anyone trying to sell tensioners with a modified ratchet and a spacer is just unnecessarily draining wallets.

 

[Nightmare302]

The spacer if the correct thickness can address both as stated however the one I used was not. My tensioners are both ground and I use a spacer. In the event of a tensioner failure (which has and does happen) the spacer AND the modified ratchet is a good setup with some redundant safety.

It's FREE to grind the teeth so no one is draining anyone's wallet and it takes about 5 mins. I could have modified 4 sets of tensioners in the time it's taken for you to make that post.

I appreciate that you made a build thread and you've dedicated a ton of time making information available. But, for the love of god stop linking people to a 1203493109 page build thread to get your views up and start answering questions like everyone else.

For what it's worth, I'd argue that almost EVERY high horsepower mod motor uses both. And before SHM started selling their spacers again (or Keith making his) the ratchet mod was done very very often.

 

[jrgoffin]

The spacer if the correct thickness can address both as stated however the one I used was not. My tensioners are both ground and I use a spacer. In the event of a tensioner failure (which has and does happen) the spacer AND the modified ratchet is a good setup with some redundant safety.

It's FREE to grind the teeth so no one is draining anyone's wallet and it takes about 5 mins. I could have modified 4 sets of tensioners in the time it's taken for you to make that post.

If a tensioner "fails", chances are the guts will go flying (especially if its corresponding arm is broken), so the ratchet will do nothing but head out - just like a spacer would, thanks to the spring. If the spring collapses, the spacer is there to keep the plunger on the tensioner. And yes, I know how easy it is to grind the teeth, but your prowess is noted.

I appreciate that you made a build thread and you've dedicated a ton of time making information available. But, for the love of god stop linking people to a 1203493109 page build thread to get your views up and start answering questions like everyone else.

Well, gee - I'll just have Ed shut down the Aluminator thread despite it having helped a whole lot of guys with their builds. And what exactly do I get with the increase in views? The answer to that is nothing. It is there since I spent a $hit ton of time writing to benefit everyone. If guys can't search, or are too lazy, that is their loss.

Same goes with my websites (well, other than the thermostats I sell, but that is peanuts): I get nothing from it. There is no advertising, and I've turned down many offers for compensation or to have it linked to forums. If it has helped a lot of people, that is fine by me. If and when you get your car running, you should put together a build thread as well, but I'll take note that it's detrimental to skip out on answering questions. Imagine what some of us had to do many years ago before forums or Facebook groups...

For what it's worth, I'd argue that almost EVERY high horsepower mod motor uses both. And before SHM started selling their spacers again (or Keith making his) the ratchet mod was done very very often.

Good for them - I'll alert SHM. The spacers are (or were $20), and of course modifying the ratchet is $0 - not hard to figure that out. It was comical to see sets of tensioners sell for something like $200ish with a spacer and modified ratchet. Having iron tensioners already (which are ridiculously simple) makes it even easier. Otherwise, they are less than $100 brand new for the pair from Melling.

 

[Nightmare302]

Go ahead and have Ed shut it down. It's got some information but forums are designed to share knowledge not lead people to another forum and then be forced to search for the answer. Not only that but by constantly linking to a webpage were your entire build was based on the recommendations from the admin (Ed) no one can offer opposing opinions.

I get tired of offering my personal opinion and for someone to claim their way is superior simply because it's the way they did it. (Not "all" you but a string of events from those that "follow" certain builders not limited to Ed/Todd).

Your humble brags and name drops don't change my opinion that your constant linking of another forum on here is incredibly annoying and when someone offers opposing opinions your constant name drops and view counts being thrown around.

 

[jrgoffin]

Ed recommended the pistons and the timing, the rest was on me with parts I had already collected. I do enough writing, which is why I don’t follow the Facebook groups any longer, nor do I spend much time here any more. Also, I really couldn’t care less about view counts or hits. If the information is on other forums, people are free to read, otherwise they are welcome to be spoon-fed by those who are willing.