Science experiment - can the IRS from the S550 be transplanted into a 13/14 GT500?

[dom418]

What are you talking about, "price tag of the newer mustang speaks to that" ...

2014 Mustang GT MSRP starting 31,200
2015 Mustang GT MSRP starting 32,100

That is a modest price increase and still a fairly cheap new car.

There are tons of refined cars you speak of out there from Jaguar to BMW to Audi to name just a few for 60-70k.

I bought the Shelby for exactly what you say it shouldnt be, and anyone who is truly buying a Shelby did as well.

Fact is, someone who "wants it all" doesnt buy a 13-14 Shelby, just doesnt.

This new GT may be nice for many but it or any future rendition of a Mustang will never be what the 13-14 GT500 is, iconic in automotive history because of its rawness. You fail to understand that because you fault it for what is best about it.

Finally, it completed the Nürburgring in under 7:40, what do you say about that?

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

Numbers speak volumes and this Beast shows it can hang on a turn, incredible the refined "want it all" cars that were owned.

Listen sweetheart, don't go getting that gritty feeling on me now. A loaded Gt is $44k, nobody is buying a base car, but I was speaking to the price tag on GT500. Look back at what you posted, you said you bought "this car" because it was supposed to be American muscle, you referenced to the Shelby not the GT. This thread has turned into people defending what suspension their car has. There is no right answer, everyone is not a little Michael Schumacher like yourself.

Fact is seeing as many are dumping the 13/14s already, they bought for the status and not because they were true enthusiasts. People like yourself come off as having an elitist attitude. You say people who don't want it all don't buy a Shelby? That's BS. Most are fully loaded cars with all the gadgets.

Raw you say? How do you call your car raw with adjustable suspension, recaros, Nav, drive by wire, track apps and all the other doo dads? Oh wait. because it had a SRA. Raw is relative. An AC Cobra is raw.

And lastly take it easy with calling the 13 iconic. It's been out for 2 years. Becoming an icon takes time and if the 13 over time becomes an icon it will not be because of its "rawness" as you claim, it will be for the 662hp.

I get it , you are hanging on the Shelby's nuts, congrats. But take off your blinders bud.

 

[mavisky]

BTW I'd throw an IRS in my Shelby in a heartbeat if it was a bolt-in affair and didn't cost me the same as 4 years of out of state college tuition.

 

[2112]

BTW I'd throw an IRS in my Shelby in a heartbeat if it was a bolt-in affair and didn't cost me the same as 4 years of out of state college tuition.

+1

How incredible would that be? Anyone know what happened to Maximum Motorsport's IRS for the S197?

 

[Tob]

Maximum has a lot on their plate right now. Trust me, I'll keep reminding them how good of an idea it would be to push an S197 IRS project back to the forefront!

 

[biminiLX]

Maximum has a lot on their plate right now. Trust me, I'll keep reminding them how good of an idea it would be to push an S197 IRS project back to the forefront!

I bet with s550 R&D exploding, still sad that the s197 is 10yrs old and you would have thought they would have pulled the trigger by now if one was in the works.
I can't recall any popular bolt-in IRS for the fox of SN95s.
-J

 

[2112]

Remember, they kept developing new products for the first Gen Mustangs for decades.

I am hoping something will develop.

 

[mavisky]

I can't recall any popular bolt-in IRS for the fox of SN95s.
-J

Plenty of SN95 GT and Fox guys rolling around on the Cobra 99-04 Cobra IRS.

 

[Tob]

I bet with s550 R&D exploding, still sad that the s197 is 10yrs old and you would have thought they would have pulled the trigger by now if one was in the works.
I can't recall any popular bolt-in IRS for the fox of SN95s.
-J

Plenty of SN95 GT and Fox guys rolling around on the Cobra 99-04 Cobra IRS.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Remember, they kept developing new products for the first Gen Mustangs for decades.

I am hoping something will develop.

I mentioned to Chuck at Maximum that I had forgotten how many products they offered for Fox bodies after spending a couple of hours going through their online catalog. It is huge. Chuck mentioned that there are a number of items they want to bring to market but that they simply don't have the time or resources to do it all. What impresses me most is that when they decide to do something they do it right and are in no rush to bring it to the market until they are happy with it.

 

[biminiLX]

Plenty of SN95 GT and Fox guys rolling around on the Cobra 99-04 Cobra IRS.

I need the facepalm icon there, didn't even register the OEM option ;-)
I was trying to think if aftermarket options exist, guess they don't need to.
Carry on.
-J

 

[mobeydick]

:smmon::smmon:

If you talk to most guys who are drag race enthusiasts it becomes very apparent they're thinking regarding suspension dynamics doesn't extend much beyond what's needed to minimize 1/4 mile and 60' times. For that role a straight axle has it's advantages. The problem is a well sorted drag car makes for a crappy street car or even an occasional track car. Nothing wrong with a car that's built to go fast in a straight line but not very good for everything else which is where the car will most likely put 99% of it's miles on the odometer.

An IRS will do a lot more then provide a "nice ride". That is just an indicator the suspension is doing a better job allowing the wheel to be more compliant with irregular road surfaces and not transferring it to the chassis. They are tailored to articulate the rear wheel maximizing grip as the chassis rolls, pitches and yaws something an SRA can't do since both the wheels are married to one another. There is a lot more going on with regard to suspension geometry then most drag racers realize. I always say to people who dismiss the advantages of an IRS is to go post their views in the Cobra R section where a most of the those guys actually track their cars and see what there reaction is. No one in their right mind swaps out an IRS for a straight axle if they are trying to improve handling. Would you?

That would be smart of Ford to do, then they can build a very harsh riding vehicle that .002% of the Mustang owners would want.
Sure the IRS can be made to handle around a road course better. No one claims otherwise.
You just don't get it. The OVERWHELMINGLY VAST majority of people in the United States would rather have ride quality then reliability then serviceability over a harsh riding car that can handle corners on a road course. That where the IRS fails. The 2015 Mustang with 435hp and an IRS will not out perform a 2013 BOSS LS on a road course. Four reasons for that, slightly more weight, slightly less horse power, the tires are narrower but the biggest reason is the suspension is softer. If IRS was all that great it by itself would overcome that. I would rather buy a car I didn't have to rebuild the rear suspension every 100,000 miles. I live in an area that has a lot of European sedans and sports cars and the streets and shops are full of them needing rear suspension rebuilds. Hell one of my clients MBs with less then 80,000 miles had to be rebuilt.
Now please tell me you think any IRS is more reliable, serviceable and cost efficient as a SRA for everyday use!

BTW: Yes, I would swap out a IRS for a SRA just like thousands of 03-04 COBRA owners have done and for the same reason!

For normal everyday driving no but when the parts started needing to be replaced on that IRS, I would swap it because driving it everyday does not require an IRS!

A friend of mine had a Lincoln Town Car with air ride suspension, (long story short) it went out and cost $2,800 just for the parts, he put in the springs and shocks from a Grand Marque and couldn't tell the difference!

 

[mobeydick]

Truth!

BTW, I'm still laughing at the post where Mobeydick claims that there's a fault with the IRS because the salesman didn't know how it was supposed to improve handling. It's obvious you've never worked at a dealership. Salesmen are salesmen, not engineers. Hell half of them couldn't tell you what engine is in the car you're test driving unless it's printed on the side of the car. Was at a Toyota dealer this spring test driving a 4 Runner for the wife and the salesman was happy to tell me that the one we were driving had the V8 in it, even though they don't offer a V8 in that vehicle in any form.

Hell the other day I had to clarify the engine size of my car to the parts counter guy at the local Ford dealer after telling him my car was a 2009 Shelby GT500, so yes that means it has the 5.4 V8 and not the 4.6 V8.

Reading Comprehension you should try it. I never said any IRS was faulty because a salesman couldn't tell me how it was supposed to improve handling. I said

That's funny, yesterday, I asked a salesman at Mike Davison Ford what does the IRS actually do different then an SRA and he had no clue. He knew the IRS was supposed to be better. Mind you that was from someone who when I pulled up in my Superduty started making claims about he was a diesel guy also and his truck made 800hp and such. I also asked the Finance manager the same question because he bought the first 2015 5.0 Mustang that was delivered to the dealership and he had no clue either!

That means they can only tell you it's better but they don't know why! In other words they can't tell the difference! They should be at least tell me it should ride better because it has IRS!

Salesman are salesman and should know (besides the styling) the most drastic change and supposedly best performance upgrade from the previous model.

 

[mobeydick]

BTW I'd throw an IRS in my Shelby in a heartbeat if it was a bolt-in affair and didn't cost me the same as 4 years of out of state college tuition.

That cost would be miniscule vs. the cost of repairing it every time you drove it hard!

 

[mavisky]

Reading Comprehension you should try it. I never said any IRS was faulty because a salesman couldn't tell me how it was supposed to improve handling. I said


That means they can only tell you it's better but they don't know why! In other words they can't tell the difference! They should be at least tell me it should ride better because it has IRS!

Salesman are salesman and should know (besides the styling) the most drastic change and supposedly best performance upgrade from the previous model.

And I'm telling you that the 3 years I spent working on training salesmen proved to me without a shadow of a doubt that 1 in 100 actually care. They will do and say whatever it takes to get you into a car and out of the building so they can sell another. Asking a car salesman why the IRS is better than the SRA is like asking a bat boy at a Braves game the best way to throw a slider. He doesn't know, and he doesn't care.

That cost would be miniscule vs. the cost of repairing it every time you drove it hard!

Have you never driven a car with an IRS and big horsepower before? There seem to be plenty of Supras, Vipers, Vettes, more making 4 digit horsepower numbers and miraculously they all survive, or are you concerned because you don't feel you'd be up to the task of controlling a car where the two rear wheels aren't directly linked by a barbaric piece of steel pipe?

Please stop harping on the set of broken axles by AM as a failure point. Replacement axles will be availalbe soon and for cheap. I bet you could do rear half shafts and subframe bushings for $750 by the time we're all said and done in the market. The 8.8 has had plenty of issues that needed fixing, it was no champion of reliability and perfection.

$200 for panhard bar and brace, $400 for upper and lower control arms, $300 for 31 spline axles, $200 for welding the axles tubes so they don't rotate, etc....

 

[smashedheadcat]

If IRS equipped mustangs didn't hop anytime you even thought about breaking traction, I'd like to have one. I personally feel that having the fillings shaken from your teeth anytime you lean on the accelerator or shift under power on anything other than a drag radial sucks more ass than than hitting an imperfection in the pavement while getting sporty on an on-ramp.

I loved the IRS in my 99 cobra. The poor girl really didn't have the power to hurt itself.

I hated the IRS in my 03 cobra. I couldn't get rid of that thing fast enough.

I unfortunately put the 03 cobra SRA into my 500rwhp 97 cobra and it just ruined the car for me. Sure, it looked cool and was different, but it reminded you how much an IRS sucked ass every time you were about to break traction.

 

[SlowSVT]

That would be smart of Ford to do, then they can build a very harsh riding vehicle that .002% of the Mustang owners would want.
Sure the IRS can be made to handle around a road course better. No one claims otherwise.
You just don't get it. The OVERWHELMINGLY VAST majority of people in the United States would rather have ride quality then reliability then serviceability over a harsh riding car that can handle corners on a road course. That where the IRS fails. The 2015 Mustang with 435hp and an IRS will not out perform a 2013 BOSS LS on a road course. Four reasons for that, slightly more weight, slightly less horse power, the tires are narrower but the biggest reason is the suspension is softer. If IRS was all that great it by itself would overcome that. I would rather buy a car I didn't have to rebuild the rear suspension every 100,000 miles. I live in an area that has a lot of European sedans and sports cars and the streets and shops are full of them needing rear suspension rebuilds. Hell one of my clients MBs with less then 80,000 miles had to be rebuilt.
Now please tell me you think any IRS is more reliable, serviceable and cost efficient as a SRA for everyday use!

BTW: Yes, I would swap out a IRS for a SRA just like thousands of 03-04 COBRA owners have done and for the same reason!

For normal everyday driving no but when the parts started needing to be replaced on that IRS, I would swap it because driving it everyday does not require an IRS!

A friend of mine had a Lincoln Town Car with air ride suspension, (long story short) it went out and cost $2,800 just for the parts, he put in the springs and shocks from a Grand Marque and couldn't tell the difference!

:smmon::smmon::smmon:

:nono: Your still thinking like a drag racer.

 

[Tob]

Why not the best of both world's...?

 

[2112]

Tob, what is that in?

Details please! Looks like an indestructible 9" carrier/pumpkin

 

[Tob]

Its a custom 9" pumpkin modified to utilize 2015 style IRS hardware as well as fitting into a 2015 Mustang IRS cradle.

I believe it took the place of the factory 2015 IRS you see here.


ON EDIT:

Yup, I'm pretty sure that the 9" arrangement replaced the factory pieces shown in Steve Turner's article linked up above. I put two photos together that both share the same ZG530090 written in yellow paint pen on the IRS subframe.

 

[2112]

Argh, not for the S197. :cryying:

 

[SlowSVT]

Argh, not for the S197. :cryying:

All may not be lost

The mounting pick-up points on the S550 IRS sub-frame look like they lend themselves to adapting to another platform way easier than the SN95 IRS. I would not be surprised if someone slides the S550 rear suspension under an S197 on a lift to see what's involved adapting it to that chassis.

The S550 may provided a new opportunity for the S197. We should know soon after S550 start to show-up in wrecking yards.