So, basically, you're talking about people who can't drive. Yet you're blaming the car's power? I'll say again, it's called throttle control (and having the car setup to properly handle the power.) Using your logic, the Ferrari FXX-K, McLaren P1 GTR, Aston Martin Vulcan, etc. are all overpowered and shitty track cars.
ZR1 reportedly ran 7:12 around the 'Ring
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So, basically, you're talking about people who can't drive. Yet you're blaming the car's power? I'll say again, it's called throttle control (and having the car setup to properly handle the power.) Using your logic, the Ferrari FXX-K, McLaren P1 GTR, Aston Martin Vulcan, etc. are all overpowered and shitty track cars.
Ever heard of the phrase "the chassis is faster than the engine?" Look at the Corvette GS with the Z06 suspension and aero versus the Z06, itself. Many hail the GS as the better car. Why? Because it's chassis is faster than its engine. That makes for a better driving/performing car. So I say again, if the car is setup for the power, there's no reason for it to inherently be a bad car on track.
All my points still remain valid with those cars, namely diminishing returns with the higher power (and price).
Did you literally just prove yourself wrong? I think you did haha. How much track experience in what variety of cars do you have? Im guessing not much if any.
FWIW He has a 350R and a 500. While that doesn't make him an expert, he's definitely an enthusiast with some experience behind the wheel. In any event these are just opinions... I think you both have made some valid points.
Define experience. Owning a car and being a car guy does not amount to experience IMO.
as an enthusiast I have gone to track days (cars and bikes) and driving schools, but can only speak to my experiences and what enthusiast means to me. I am sure Premi will speak to his experience.
Well he contradicted himself pretty bad so not sure I even know his stance.
And. I saw a dude just picked up his brand new Zl1 1LE and he's selling the stock tires because they ride too rough. And going with an all season.
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The quality of those sessions determines experience IMO. There are certainly levels to it. Driving schools make a lot of money giving casual people the illusion of training while merely providing an experience. I'm absolutely guilty of mistaking that mistake in the past. The typical forum poster thinks they're at a 7 out of 10 but the reality is they're barely at 1. Most find that out when they start racing competitively. That's not necessarily aimed at you since I don't know anything about you....just a general observation of the sampling of forum types I've met over the years (and some self reflection).
I know my limitations, this hobby can be a very humbling one at times.
Go back and read the thread progression. You obviously misread the discussion, as usual. My post agrees with what you said.
Yeah, I am the same guy, because "restrictions" was never defined.
EDIT: Nevermind. Not gonna get into it.
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That’s the time you get when you actually take an oem stock vehicle and let a pro driver run it.
The gm marketed time will be after they have modified the zr1 to run a time they are happy with.
The gm marketed time will be after they have modified the zr1 to run a time they are happy with.
Reread what I posted. Carefully this time. I didn't contradict myself. If the car is setup for the power, there's nothing wrong with 700+HP in a track car. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it, until I personally experience otherwise; read:not what I see other people doing on the track, but what happens when I'm behind the wheel of said car. I don't use somebody else's driving style/experience as a barometer of my own. Different people perform differently.
And our opinion (and we can keep it civil because they are just that) is that there is nothing you can do to "set up" a car to handle 700+ hp effectively at this point and time. Some could argue traction control and nannies, but that again means you're just limiting the amount of useable horsepower, which again, means the chassis cannot handle the power.
Its funny. My personal life/time/every weekend is being at a world class race track, 4 of my friends race in professional race series. 3 in GT3CUP and one right now in the pirelli WC in a gt3R (currently leading the series too) also completed the road to indy series in 2nd place. We have these debates every weekend. Even gone as far as testing the straight away theory in a formula BMW lol. One was saying that a heavy headwind was slowing his lap by 3 seconds. What we saw when he did a full out lap, and a lap where he was just 1/2 throttle down the back straight (25mph slower) was less than .5second difference on a 2:10 lap time.
140hp, 1200lbs with driver, full aero, 3 mile track 16 corners. And 1/4mile-ish straight. Big key is 25mph less. I can go do it in a no aero formula ford this weekend too for shits and giggles.
Either way race tracks have some anomoly type scenarios that sometimes just dont make sense.
what you are saying is true in theory, but in reality there is nothing engineering wise that can be done for this power level with front engine rwd layout and street rubber. Chassis, suspension and aero technology are far ahead of the tire rubber compounds available in the DOT approved realm.
Over the last 2 generations of Z06s power has gone up in 25% increments but track times only improved by 11% in the first iteration then only 7% in the second bump. So were getting to the point where you could almost double the hp and only get a minuscule jump in performance (diminishing returns).
I mean.. That will help a little, but those shocks on that car aren't for the masses.
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