I have read that with modest BMR-type lowering it is not necessary to adjust pinion angle if you are using a CV-equipped one piece driveshaft such as a Dynotech. Is this true?
Man, this is getting good. My reply tomorrow is going to be Epic. I know I said I was going to reply tonight, but, I am still beat from New Years....
I had no idea this would get bombarded. Awesome!!!!! I am anxiously looking forward to replying to each question as in depth as possible when I get to the office tomorrow.
Would an ARB help out a N/A car?
OK, you asked for it LOL....I recently installed the double adjustable sperichal lca, and the adjustable uca, and mount.....this is a stock ride height car.......what would be the next steps for improved traction
N/A A6 with a circle d 4C
When lowering the car, which is more important to address first (if its relevant): Getting an adjustable panhard bar to re-center the axle, or an adjustable UCA to re-align the pinion angle? (i already have LCA's and brackets.)
Alright. I thought I read LCA,a should be installed with the suspension loaded at ride height. So I can install them with the front rolled up on ramps and jack stands under the rear axles?
And for a bolt on power street car that is lowered on bmr springs and tokico d specs, which bracket hole should the LCAs be mounted?
Here's one for you.... Best sway-bar setup for auto-X?
Best setup for low rolls and auto x? I have bc coils and a phb with heim joints so far.
Explain how ICM brackets work?
i have brm springs on my 12 gt/cs...on stock hardware...my ride is only bouncy at about 70-85mph over small rolling dips in the road...i hate this...what do i need to upgrade to fix this...
Kelly,
Add these to the list since a lot of guys seem to ask..I did a lot of trial and error getting my set-up right and all this info in one place would have been nice:
LCA Relo Brackets: Which hole for what kind of drop...In other words, how much should the LCA's be angled down from the body mount to the rear axle?
Adjustable UCA: What mounting hole should be used for which types of set-ups?
Pinion Angle: What angle is ideal for the the best overall compromise between performance and least amount of NVH...M6 and A6.
I understand there is NO SINGLE answer for each question due to the endless combinations and set-ups guys are running....just looking for a starting point for those who are looking to get a good starting point when installing rear suspension components.
Thanks
I've got a set of BBK LCAs but I haven't seen a specific relo bracket for them. Do you know of one I could use?
I have read that with modest BMR-type lowering it is not necessary to adjust pinion angle if you are using a CV-equipped one piece driveshaft such as a Dynotech. Is this true?
how does bmr compenents (i.e. LCA UCA RELO brackets etc.) react to air suspension like the AIRREX air struts and shocks setup? how you guys ever tested air suspension?
I have a question...I have a KB 2.8 supercharger on my stock geared, stock converter A6 car. My suspension isn't ideal for drag racing (Sportlines, Koni Sports) but on a 275/60-15 MT Drag Radial, has managed a respectable 1.55 60'. Since I'm not experiencing any tire spin, are there any suspension improvements I can make that will result in a better 60' time? I think my limits right now are dictated by my choice of gear and converter, correct?
It seems some people have run into this but my problem is a bit different. I put eibach adj bars on and they are real close to the bmr brackets but it all fits as long as I use the middle or bottom hole on the lca bracet. I think the car would handle better with the lca in the upper hole but the sway bar covers the top hole and there is no room for the bolt head between the bracket and the end of the sway bar. Anybody ever run into this?
Edit: I am running prokit springs. Will the top hole be better for road course handling?
which hole works best on anti roll bar front or back ?
how bad is it if u did not weld the tabs where instructions called for ?
Ok quick question:
I have your SP009 lowering springs along with LCAs & brackets, adjustable UCA & mount and double adjustable shocks.
The LCA relocation bracket has 3 holes, which one should I use for my application? I put it in the middle one, but i'm not sure if thats what I should have done?
thanks man.
They often do, and often don't. It depends on a few things. Springs, shocks, struts, launch style/rpm, etc.
I could best answer this, if I saw a video of the car. IMO, once a car gets past mid 11's with a manual trans....they need an ARB (this is generic, but close).. With an Auto, they typically start becoming a good investment when you get into the 10's, solidly.
That's tough. I would need to know what the car is doing. It is very hard to blindly recommend additional parts, other than those listed, if I do not know how the car is reacting. If I had to blindly guess....adjustable front struts, UCA in the upper position, LCA in the top of the 3 holes...and some weight removal. That would do well. I think tuning would provide just as much improvement, as well as launch technique. Of course, the "system" or "package" is what makes it work at the end of the day.
Actually, I rank them similar. When installing aftermarket suspension components, I HIGHLY recommend the axle being perfectly centered at static ride-height. When the axle is pushed/bias to one side...it puts strain into multiple suspension and drive train components; no bueno!
Same for pinion angle.
You can torque a floating style bushing/sleeve however you wish. Of course, we always tell people to TQ them loaded....but there are a few reasons behind this. When you install aftermarket UCA/LCA/PHR etc....the ONLY bolt that NEEDS to be torqued at TRUE ride-height/load...is the rear most UCA bolt to the differential.
For your car, I recommend starting in the middle position of the BMR Relo Brackets. It is usually the best position. Not always, though.
****THOSE READING**** Speaking of torquing at ride-height. When you have jackstands under your A-Arms, and rear axle....the suspension is NOT LOADED fully. It is partially loaded. You cannot fully load the suspension / achieve static ride-height.....without having the full weight of the car sit on the front and rear tires. :beer:
Currently available, if I personally had to pick, I would do the Eibach 11+ Adjustables. Bang for the buck, and just really good performing parts. I'm not huge on their springs, but, their bars are nice.
We are going to release ours sometime this year. We have taken so long, for a good reason. :rolling:
Ouch, that is a little more complicated than I expected. That question is a little too broad. I would say, set the car up for its primary use first....then adjust the mod list from there. You can have a GREAT auto-x set-up....then swap rear tires and unbolt the front sway bar, loosen front struts, and go fast from a roll or a drag strip. It's actually easy.
Hmmm... It would take me atleast 10,000 words.
This should help.....but it is very general/basic.
Hmm. BRM springs? Never heard of 'em!
It's okay, I am still "feeling" it from New Years, too. :beer:
So - everything is stock, except the BMR Springs....right? If so, then you honestly may need to replace the front struts to cure your issue. Not really sure why some people experience this, and some do not. I would say that most do, but some don't realize or pay attention.
If you cannot decide on struts, I would be happy to assist you.
LCA Relos: Here's the deal. GENERALLY speaking....you want to multiply the amount you drop the car, by 1.5 to 2...to get the amount which you want to lower the LCA down. This is just from experience....and I am NOT saying everyone needs to do so. For example, if you drop the car 1"....a 2" LCA drop is typically the best way to go. For a larger drop, I see that the drop X 1.5 seems to be more realistic. Of course, this is just a function of the geometry/properties of suspension movement.
*A lot of this depends on the position of the UCA, as well. With a BMR UCA Mount...using the UPPER most position....the 1.5 or 2 factor is almost always perfect... For those reading, our LCA positions are 2", 3" and 4" from the factory mounting point.
It goes SOOO much deeper - but this will get people to an excellent starting point. You won't see anyone else, ever, before I just typed this.....tell you / post that info. If they did, I told them over the phone. These are the type of things I have to conjure up, because I speak to an astronomical amount of people each and every day. At the end of the day, LCA angle needs to be adjusted to see what works best. That is always better than anything I can tell someone.
Adjustable UCA: This relates to the LCA mounting point. On a lowered car, I ALWAYS like to see the stock, or upper most position on the BMR UCA Mount, be utilized....while using LCA Brackets to adjust for maximized traction. We are likely the only company that specifically designs our upper mounting point on our UCA Bracket, for a lowered car. It is actually raised slightly, compared to stock.
The lower position on our UCA Mount, this is almost always reserved (recommendaed by me) for people who have a stock ride-height car, AND NO LCA Brackets. That said, I do have people who experience awesome results on a lowered car, using the lower position on the UCA mount, with the top hole on the BMR brackets.....but it's not optimal to mix. That results in a much to severe Anti-Squat setting.
Moral - Stock height, use BMR UCA Mount in lower hole / no relos. Lowered, use upper spot on BMR mount, with relos.
Pinion Angle: First off, I want to post this. Everyone should use this....it has been a life saver for me. Ignore anything else you see, this is what you do. The debate comes into play, when talking about "what" to set it at...
Again, something I conjured up. This is likely the most common topic for me at the office. I am going to end up making a video. Pinion angle is likely the easiest thing ever, people just severely over-complicate it.
That said.....I recommend in that picture. The REAL deal is, you want 0 degrees. Unfortunately, you cannot always have 0 degrees... You have to pick, 0 degrees when putting around town, then have bind under WOT/Load....or do you want -2, -1, etc....then 0 degrees when abusing the car. Its a tough call, I usually leave the end decision up to the customers. What I will state, is, I do not like to see more than 3 degrees pinion angle on any combo, ever.
If they are the ones I am thinking about, they sure do look a heck of a lot like ours. So - I am fairly confident our Relo Brackets will fit with the BBK LCA. I guess the better answer is, our Brackets work with any LCA that will fit a factory S197.
Ehhh....I'll save that for the DS makers. I always recommend having proper working angles on/with your drive train.
Never tested the air suspension stuff.
I would say it would be no different.
Not really. Technically, yes....but it starts getting deep when talking about particular angles enhancing initial acceleration rate, etc. A prime example would be, two cars that hook equally....but two completely different AS%....one car will be quicker to the sixty. One will not waste as much energy as the other.
Your MAIN sixty improvements at this time, assuming you are not blowing the tires off, will come from testing tire pressures (sometimes more wheel speed is better), testing timing on the hit (tune), converter flash RPM, gear, etc.
Middle position will likely be the best overall. I am unclear of your situation....although I can imagine it....can you post a pic?
Tab location really isn't that crucial....assuming the links are adjusted properly. (minimal preload is preferred)
As for the hole that works best, the closest hole to the main bar (shorter lever arm) will ALWAYS work better on our bar, at the drag-strip.
Hole 1 is 854% more stiff than the stock style sway bar. (916 rate)
Hole 2 is 1055% more stiff than the stock style bar. (1109 rate)
Isn't it nice having companies to share all of this info? ;-)
Test, test, and test more. Middle should work well.
MY recommendation is:
BMR Springs
UCA in Upper Hole on BMR Upper Mount
LCA in Middle Position on BMR LCA Brackets
^ That formula is probably the best overall combination of control arm angles and the drop of BMR Springs.
I have a question I just installed my lca uca bmr springs and panhard rod. I dont have my relocation brackets welded is it true that I can bend them and my axles from hard launches?
I take it that you're feeling much better today! You answered many of my questions and I didn't even have to ask. Thank you Sir.
Thank you sir, will try that out.
Thanks for the awesome info Kelly!