GT500 IC/HE Pump Comparison

[99SSls1]

That is true but if the heat exchanger can handle more flow then more flow will help. We are just trying to find the sweet spot. I am guessing the flow needed on some of the bigger HE's is alot more then most pumps can supply. Now the stock HE's this may not be the truth.

 

[fullboogie]

Ive always disagreed with this. You can move it so fast that heat doesnt transfer properly.

Well, what is that opinion based on? Has your race car/real world testing shown otherwise? Not trying to pick on you, but there's a professional racer who has performed an astonishing amount of R&D on intercooler/HE systems in S197's who says otherwise.

If moving it faster was always better, I am certain Ford would have done that already.

Then why do we upgrade CAI, blowers, injectors, fuel systems, exhaust systems, brakes, etc? Just for the heck of it? Or because there are better parts out there? Ford makes compromises when building every vehicle which leaves lots of room for us to upgrade stuff. That's what makes it so fun!

I don't know shit about H/E personally, so I'm not being a know-it-all. I can only take what credible evidence there is out there and make a decision for myself. So if I've got reams of information from a racer vs. an unsubstantiated opinion from the internet, you can guess who I'm going with.

 

[fullboogie]

This is gmitch's latest iteration, and shows the extent of his R&D into HE/intercooler efficiency:

 

[jenkins_1120]

that thing is a monster

 

[Catmonkey]

This is gmitch's latest iteration, and shows the extent of his R&D into HE/intercooler efficiency:

View attachment 15253

Is that pump his intercooler pump? It almost looks like he's using larger cooling lines, or maybe that's just what a 3/4" hose looks like in braided stainless.

 

[Tob]

When I sourced the harness a year ago nobody could find the oe pump connector by itself hence the two piece harness. This is how I mounted the 13 pump with my vmp he:
http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-...ate-performance-kit-install/photo-gallery/#20

The inlet points to the rear of the car.

The outlet can be rotated depending on which HE you are using, dual pass, the new triple pass or something else.

Justin, you definitely blazed a trail by offering something that nobody else chose to do. When I saw your kit awhile back I made a mental note with the intent on further investigating fitment. So when a good friend from Toronto contacted me and mentioned that his Bosch pump was failing, I suggested he try your kit. I went back to the ad you have on your site where you mention that "On the road course we saw lower peak temps after running WOT on the straights with our VMP TVS Supercharged 2012 Boss 302." If I can ask, have you logged any of the relevant data? Furthermore, have you done any logging on a GT500 with the new pump and typical cooling upgrades?

The Pierburg pump is definitely a nice piece. If it is indeed more durable than the stock Bosch pump and also provides some measure of increased cooling efficiency I'm quite sure that more will follow and buy one as well. But at current, there isn't much data for it as installed on one of our cars. Anything you could share would certainly help.

 

[Steve@Tasca]

Steve, I went through the Motorcraft "Wiring Pigtail Kit Identification Guide" looking through the four cavity connector section and found this one (WPT-1309)...

That is the one you were referencing earlier, yes? I do see four wires coming from it (which would make hooking up the PWM feature via a custom controller that much easier) as opposed to only two on the harness Justin supplies. Do you know how long the wires might be...roughly? My WAG would be 6" or so...

That's it, it should have about 6" or so of wire on it as you guessed. I did some looking for the two wire connector on the other end and can't find anything, VMP must have found an aftermarket connector there.

The Motorcraft pigtail really doesn't make much sense though since the OEM jumper harness costs less, I can sell the DR3Z-14A411-C harness for $4.69 plus shipping and then you just snip of what you aren't using.

Edit- The Motorcraft repair pigtail is the way to go if you do want the four wire setup.

-Steve

 

[Tob]

The Motorcraft pigtail really doesn't make much sense though since the OEM jumper harness costs less, I can sell the DR3Z-14A411-C harness for $4.69 plus shipping and then you just snip of what you aren't using.

I was just looking at that. Steve, what was the original application for DR3Z-14A411-C?

Off the top of my head:

D - decade code, in this case 2013
R3 - product line code, in this case Mustang
Z - Ford Service Division

14A11 - basic part number, in this case a harness
C - design revision number

Am I right? Because I can't find the '13/'14 IC pump in at Fordparts.com (I've been through every category) or harness. I'm just wondering if it is indeed the '13/'14 GT500 production IC harness.

This is all I can get to come up if I try to simply enter the part number instead of searching through the proper vehicle, engine, transmission, etc...

 

[Robert M]

Adding to the discussion above about more flow in the H/E system..............


Wouldn't it only make sense that since Ford did upsize the oem H/E for the 2013 GT500 that they would also upsize the flow capacity of the H/E pump?


.............and in that same line of thought, if Ford felt that during their testing more flow was needed for the larger factory installed 2013 H/E............where does that leave a 2007-2012 GT500 owner who installs a larger H/E in their GT500 but continues to use their original lower flowing 2007-2012 H/E pump? <<This is one of the questions I have asked after realizing that the 2013 H/E pump was upgraded in concert with the 2013 H/E. <<It seems more like a package upgrade, not just throwing a single part upgrade at the car.

.............and then you can go back to the original test results that Ford possibly found...............with 662 hp, the H/E upgrade was "a must", and then what about a 725, or 750hp car that has a H/E upgrade with no pump flow upgrade? It seems like it would be a situation of going backwards in some respects in comparison to what is really needed for proper cooling. Just my thoughts..........



R

 

[19COBRA93]

Adding to the discussion above about more flow in the H/E system..............


Wouldn't it only make sense that since Ford did upsize the oem H/E for the 2013 GT500 that they would also upsize the flow capacity of the H/E pump?


.............and in that same line of thought, if Ford felt that during their testing more flow was needed for the larger factory installed 2013 H/E............where does that leave a 2007-2012 GT500 owner who installs a larger H/E in their GT500 but continues to use their original lower flowing 2007-2012 H/E pump? <<This is one of the questions I have asked after realizing that the 2013 H/E pump was upgraded in concert with the 2013 H/E. <<It seems more like a package upgrade, not just throwing a single part upgrade at the car.

.............and then you can go back to the original test results that Ford possibly found...............with 662 hp, the H/E upgrade was "a must", and then what about a 725, or 750hp car that has a H/E upgrade with no pump flow upgrade? It seems like it would be a situation of going backwards in some respects in comparison to what is really needed for proper cooling. Just my thoughts..........



R

Don't forget the '13/14's also got an upgraded intercooler as well.

 

[Robert M]

Don't forget the '13/14's also got an upgraded intercooler as well.

^^^^Yes, that also.

I knew there was another S/C upgraded part of this package for 2013. Without having the package, is it as efficient as it could be? and we are talking about a GT500 at the 662 hp level.

Most GT500 owners are past the 662hp level with a simple S/C upgrade and many are without the minimum S/C cooling upgrades that Ford felt was needed at 662?

As I have said before, along with hp comes heat.



R

 

[brian98svtsnake]

Subscribing for results

 

[Justin@VMP]

Justin, you definitely blazed a trail by offering something that nobody else chose to do. When I saw your kit awhile back I made a mental note with the intent on further investigating fitment. So when a good friend from Toronto contacted me and mentioned that his Bosch pump was failing, I suggested he try your kit. I went back to the ad you have on your site where you mention that "On the road course we saw lower peak temps after running WOT on the straights with our VMP TVS Supercharged 2012 Boss 302." If I can ask, have you logged any of the relevant data? Furthermore, have you done any logging on a GT500 with the new pump and typical cooling upgrades?

The Pierburg pump is definitely a nice piece. If it is indeed more durable than the stock Bosch pump and also provides some measure of increased cooling efficiency I'm quite sure that more will follow and buy one as well. But at current, there isn't much data for it as installed on one of our cars. Anything you could share would certainly help.

Tob, it lowered the peaks on the road course, instead of spiking to 170after a hard run, it would only spike to 160-165 and come back down to 150F quicker.

We are going to try one in our TVS drag car, which sees about 150F by the end of a 9 sec run when running at 18psi with no ice.

I do all my flow testing with a GPI flow tester.

Ford designed the 13 to put out a steady 600rwhp, if that car gets too hot, it simply pulls boost until temps recover. The factory cal is closed loop on throttle angle a wot and can actually moderate power pretty well. That being said, the way we run is a little different, we go as hard as we can and make as much power, worrying about temps only when we have to pull too much timing. The older cars still benefit IMMENSELY from a larger HE, I would say the larger pump is only a 10-20% gain compared to what you get from the aftermarket HE itself.

 

[Reis racing]

What about a rule 2000 pump that comes in the DAD tanks? Is it a gd idea to run those on the street?

 

[HooperWest]

2013 Spec GT500 Intercooler Pump installed on 2008 TVS Powered GT500

When I was at DaSilva RACING for some pulls Matt noticed my intercooler pump was intermittent.

[youtube_browser]Mk7V5W_gaeI[/youtube_browser]

This was really not all that surprising as the 2007 - 2012 Intercooler Pump is the same old Bosch unit put on the SVT Lightning. This pump is average and definitely has a shelf life.

So with an upcoming track day I did not wnat to have a wonky pump on the car and statred my research for a replacement.

I have a massive Revan Racing (C&R) Dual Fan Intercooler on my car as well as a 3x Capacity Intercooler reservior so I was maxing out my stock unit and did not want to replace it with one of the same flow spec.

I considered some of the Mezieres but thought I see what FORD was using as the GT500 from '13 on were TVS Powered and had a bigger intercooler, I knew there had to be an OEM pump upgrade and sure enough, FORD found a great unit from PEIRBURG, the same pump used on some of the BLOWN AMG Mercedes cars. So that is what I wanted and bought.

I learned that Justin from VMP had bought one of these and installed it on his BOSS that has a TVS and had created a "Kit" http://vmptuning.com/07-12-gt500-cooling/13pumpkit/ to marry this pump with the older 07-12 Pump's electrical connection.

The VMP kit comes with electrical connection adaptor and a clamp only this is not a kit that will allow you to just bolt one of these pumps on, so bear that in mind.

Further, unless you have a full blown machine shop and a torch in your home garage, I suggest starting this job at a shop with those resources.

This post is NOT a how to, but merely a synopsis of how we did it as there are a myriad of options depending on your intercooler and reservoir size and location.

Charles Dickens: A Tale of Two Pumps
The bosch pump flows approx 4.5GPM with an aftermarket HE, the 13 pump is good for 6-7GPM.

Clip off...

^^
Old pump

^^
Old Pump Removed

So after having a look at the online shop manual, you can see this shorter but wider pump is located up by the cylinder head on the 2013+ TVS Equiped GT500, Ford di not design this pump to just slide into the place where the Bosch was so a decision was made to craft a bracket that would sit on two of the bolts on my Intercooler, this will allow for a simipla location to the outgoing stock Bosch Pump and allow the use of the exiting hoses. Want to than my friends Frank and Jeremy for their help on this.

^^
Fabrication and test fitting

^^
Bracket smoothed and painted

^^
INSTALL

[youtube_browser]zR3PjJsKQF8[/youtube_browser]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zR3PjJsKQF8

^^
Successful Functioning install, incredible flow now. The VMP comes with extra long wiring adaptor cables, leaving you with many install option, we had lots of cable left so we just folded it and tie wrapped the slack. The Reservoir looks like a Jacuzzi now with the flow created by this little monster and that proved to be problematic....

[youtube_browser]D2exdpXhOqg[/youtube_browser]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2exdpXhOqg

....so last Wednesday on the 28th I hit the track and the car was running pretty could save my one underperforming rear shock that I did not have time to swap out with my Bilstein HD before the track day. After a few sessions, I had a chance to hit a clear track and hit it hard. After a lap and a half HyperGT who was in the passenger seat says, I see some smoke coming from the hood so I came off the Road Course and shut it down, you can see in the video what the problem was. Coolant was breaching the cap on the Intercooler Reservoir and blowing onto the engine, hence the smoke. Too much foaming of the coolant now.

The next day I sent Justin (VMP) an email in regards to this and asked if he had experienced this on his install with his Blown Boss, he said no but recommended removing some coolant and running more water in my ratio, so I have done this and will update this tread with the results of that fix after I get the car good and hot again.

 

[Tob]

The water in your intercooling system needs to have more heavy metals in it. The pump was designed to run on American water and not Canadian.








Nice setup JTB. I really like the creativity in the bracket design that allowed it to bolt right up in the stock location. Looking forward to seeing you resolve the puking. Great job.

Tob

 

[HooperWest]

The water in your intercooling system needs to have more heavy metals in it. The pump was designed to run on American water and not Canadian.








Nice setup JTB. I really like the creativity in the bracket design that allowed it to bolt right up in the stock location. Looking forward to seeing you resolve the puking. Great job.

Tob

LOL, our DISTILLED water is the same boring stuff as yours.

 

[Tob]

Pure government propaganda.


Need to take a look a the '13/'14 plumbing configuration which was changed. There looks to be quite a bit of churning in that reservoir and I'm wondering if that is inducing air into the system...:read:

 

[bFoxGt500]

Another excellent post HooperWest - thanks for the update. Last summer I had serious overheaiting problems that are now solved with a newly built engine and (more importantly as to the original cause) a rebuilt Supercharger. Track session a couple of weeks ago never saw more than about 135 IAT2 with 25 minute sessions at 80F. I don't trust my OE pump though so I am still very interested in this thread. I didn't realize when reading the earlier posts that such modifcation to the mount was necessary so your update is much appreciated. Frankly, I don't look forward to pulling the bumper again so may wait unitl I am ready to get the tow hook installed (which I am not sure I can do myself).

 

[HooperWest]

Pure government propaganda.


Need to take a look a the '13/'14 plumbing configuration which was changed. There looks to be quite a bit of churning in that reservoir and I'm wondering if that is inducing air into the system...:read:

We have a guy on the Toronto Mustang Board, who is a Canadian Engineer working for FORD in Detroit, so they can get things done right...LOL

He chimed in with this: "I know the CJs were having that issue while in development, I'm pretty sure a flow restrictor cured it... might want to play around with that if the revised water:coolant ratio does not fix the foaming. Not sure if the 13's have a stock restrictor in the system, would be worth looking into."

So I'm looking at the '13 cooling system Fiche now to see if there is one in the system. And if there is, (Board Sponsor) Tousley will get a call.