GT500 IC/HE Pump Comparison

[HooperWest]

I took a close look in terms of available room for a bypass on the earlier cars with the 3X reservoir. There looks to be room to do it two different ways. Both routings are between the tanks and the belts/engine, one is just higher than the other to go either above or below an existing/parallel hose.

First routing in plan view while standing in front of the engine...

Second view is a cut and the plumbing is at a lower elevation that the above...

I looked at pex fittings as well but don't like the multiple ribbing where the clamp compresses the rubber. I agree with you Justin with respect to flow however.

I'll post more when I can.

Thanks for those mock ups Tobin, I prefer the first set up.

For now I have purged the system and reduced the amount of coolant an upped the water amount in the ratio, I will have the car out tomorrow and will report.

Thanks to all who have chimed in.

 

[Tob]

The second is actually better packaged/hidden, just harder to sketch in plan and differentiate from the first. I'm looking at fittings/restrictors now and will post up tomorrow.

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

Van:

To clarify, you maintain that this OEM by-pass/restrictor set up WILL NOT work on my particular intercooler configuration?

My Set up:

- Your Dual Fan
- 3 X Capacity Reservoir
- 2013 Spec Intercooler Pump

Correct. I don't believe you need the bypass. I honestly believe you had air in the system and when it went into the intercooler all hell broke loose.

 

[1320 Junkie]

The ford GT pump I believe is similar to the 13/14 GT500 pump and rated for 7gpm

 

[Poisonous West]

HI Tob, the by-pass hose restrictor inlet size is 13.6mm diameter and the outlet size is 10.2mm diameter.

Trust me on this one - and don't ask how I know.

 

[Catmonkey]

I'm looking to do this as well and came across this as a possibility for the by-pass. The tee is made by Four Seasons which might be found at a local auto parts store. I would cut off the 5/8" sections. Summit Racing FSS-84757. It's likely Four Seasons part number too.

 

[Bad Company]

I noticed this on Kenne Bell's website and it fits well into this topic.

http://kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Company_pg/layouts/bigun_intercooler.htm

The other thing I like about it is the CFM air flow increase. This will reduce the pressure differential between the supercharger outlet and the intake manifold. Which will also help to reduce IAT2at the same time.

 

[Tob]

Nice piece by KB. It'd be nice if the numbers in their advertisement were compared to either the '07-'12 or the '13/'14 specifically. IIRC, the '13/'14 piece goes for about $800 (and doesn't require any mods). I wonder how much KB is charging for theirs.

Kam, thanks for the numbers on the restrictor. Van sent me some shots last night of one that was removed from a '13/'14 bypass hose assembly...

That appears to match the plastic coolant flow restrictors that Ford has used since the early 90's. You can find them just about anywhere. I've also found them in certain Ford truck applications in steel.

There is an issue in terms of available space however as the length of hose the restrictor would need to fit in is only about 6" and a spliced in "T" fitting needs to make its way in there as well. Which then had me digging through my Fox parts bin for the restrictors that Ford used back then to minimize heater core damage as they were rather small.

Regarding fittings (Catmonkey), I noticed the one you showed yesterday while scouring the web looking through pdf's, catalogs, etc, for 3/4" barbed "Y" style fittings. They are very hard to find but that one does come up. I'm not a big fan of universal style fittings such as that one, especially when you can't verify the material used. I like to stick with trusted names such as Gates, etc, but again the issue is that an off angle T or Y is simply tough to procure. Gates doesn't show a fitting that matches that configuration but they do list regular T fittings. I highlighted one that would be necessary elsewhere if one were to piece this bypass together...

Gates uses the proper glass reinforced nylon that is designed to withstand typical temperatures as well as being impervious to damage from a number of agents that the material may come in contact with. I did find another fitting that looks close to the one Summit carries but I suspect it is the same piece (less additional barbs) as it crosses to the same part and also looks to be designed for two different diameter hoses.

http://www.ryderfleetproducts.com/airsource-2601/coolant-y-tee-p-mei-2601

For the long run of hose, I like what Gates shows. They carry an appropriate length piece in the correct diameter that has a 90* elbow molded on one end...

For short elbows, a simple 3/4" x 3/4" bypass will do.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?carcode=1331064&parttype=2155


For clamps, Gates Powerclamps. They would allow a very clean looking bypass assembly to be put together.

I'm watching JTB go through this for now but if I do this (and I plan to), I now know how I'll piece together the harness, bracket, and bypass hose assembly. I'm hoping JTB can square this one away by managing coolant level as well as being absolutely certain that there is no air in the system. If not, all of the above should be able to be employed to mitigate the issue and to take advantage of what should be a much more robust pump than the factory Bosch. Much more work than a simple parts replacement but some here look forward to a challenge. :-D

 

[fullboogie]

I know Hooper had a problem as a result of the bigger pump, but that was in a road race situation. Has anyone else heard of this problem cropping up on a street car? I've seen lots and lots of threads involving very high capacity pumps, but have yet to hear of anyone experiencing this issue on the street. I understand this is a fun exercise and a challenge, and obviously necessary for Hooper, but I don't think it's going to be necessary for the vast majority of us.

I plan to install a high volume pump very soon myself, so this thread has my interest.

 

[Bad Company]

Nice piece by KB. It'd be nice if the numbers in their advertisement were compared to either the '07-'12 or the '13/'14 specifically. IIRC, the '13/'14 piece goes for about $800 (and doesn't require any mods). I wonder how much KB is charging for theirs.

LOL stop reading all the info and look at the picture and the sub-titles with each intercooler pictured.

07-12 intercooler CFM is 995CFM

13-14 intercooler CFM is 1109CFM

KB BIGUN intercooler is 1232CFM

Now I would assume that each intercooler was tested using the exact same methods and the CFM results were adjusted for the barometric and humidity conditions during each test to reflect an accurate test between each cooler with these advertized CFM flow differences

The stock intake manifold doesn't need to be modified for the 1232CFM air flow results, but if you do modify the manifold that you will see better results than the 1232 CFM. Here is the wording in KB website

NOTE: BIGUN is a direct replacement intercooler
Enlarging the manifold opening (machining instructions included) will result in additional efficiency

I'd expect it to be higher priced than the FRPP intercooler upgrade for the earlier engine. I wouldn't expect it to be more than a $1000 though.

 

[Catmonkey]

I wonder what harm there would be coming off the intake with a 90* hose and putting the tee where the coolant flow goes straight toward the pump, with the 90* bend on the tee plumbed to the degass tank? Might not need the restrictor in that routing. If you did, you'd probably have room for it. To borrow from Tob's drawing, it would look like this.

 

[Tob]

I like the way you are thinking. Problem is, the 3x reservoir inlet is near the top of the tank (there is no drop as in your sketch).

 

[Justin@VMP]

Catmonkey, that is exactly how i have my boss set up, like your pic.

 

[Tob]

A photo would certainly help here if you have one Justin. I could see a T in place as in my second sketch, but the hoses are switched from Catmonkey's. Without a drop at the 3X inlet, I can't see it being done that way.

If the Y style fitting that was discussed earlier worked I could see something like this...

A length of hose laid in that area...

 

[Tob]

Or something like this?

 

[CobraCO]

I was told by KB the new bigun intercooler is going to be $999.

On another note, for those of us running a LC KB supercharger, I suppose the way they use a restrictor to route the coolant to the supercharger and the return after the reservoir is the equivalent of a bypass.

Also, has anyone see these equivalent of a boostapump for the intercooler pump? http://www.jegs.com/p/JMS/JMS-CoolMAX-Intercooler-Pump-Voltage-Booster/2985409/10002/-1. It is a bit pricey but they claim 35 degree drop in IAT2.

 

[brian98svtsnake]

Price is right on their web site 999

 

[Catmonkey]

Or something like this?

That's what I was attempting to draw.

 

[KRS]

2013 Spec GT500 Intercooler Pump installed on 2008 TVS Powered GT500.......... I see some smoke coming from the hood so I came off the Road Course and shut it down, you can see in the video what the was. Coolant was breaching the cap on the Intercooler Reservoir and blowing onto the engine, hence the smoke. Too much foaming of the coolant now.[/B]

I have been following this thread for a while and I was wondering if you tested the pressure cap and checked the lip of the reservoir for damage/proper seal. It could have be pre-existing issue that only became evident with the increased coolant flow.

With that said, it still appears that there is a foaming issue that needs to be addressed.

 

[Bad Company]

I went to the Ford National today in Carlisle PA. Evolution had a booth there. I asked about the KB BIGUN intercooler. I was told that it has been on the market 2 weeks. They also told me that KB has been testing and developing this thing for the last 6 months. They said that their 07 GT500 has had one for testing purposes since the beginning of the race season