The 2020 Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 with 760 horsepower faces off against the 650-hp Chevrolet Camaro

[ZYBORG]

My bad, I somehow missed that.



It's hard to sell these things on a "you'll get used to it" if someone is cross shopping the Mustang or Challenger and they are immediately more comfortable in the others. Not to mention, it's impossible to push past 8/10s on the street where they come into their own. They feel good at 4-5/10s, but so does pretty much anything performance oriented.

It's a hard spot for that car. Youre right about the enthusiast part, but there are only so many Chevy guys to go around. There aren't significant enthusiast sales to steal from other camps and also try to share with the Corvette.

I can tell your that when I bought my 1LE, it really only took me a couple of days to get used to the ergo. Once I got used to it, it never entered my memory ever again or was an issue. It wasn’t until I got my Shelby that I realized (again) how much better the view was. I enjoyed the way my 1LE drove so much, that it actually overshadowed the experience with my 14 500 with the track package.

I hear you in regards to the enthusiasts. Ford takes the cake there. Ford has accumulated most of the hard core fans, over the years.

 

[UBNZO6D]

Why don't you guys just appreciate the choices you have...My choice would be a NON 1LE and a NON Carbon/Fib Pkg. and race them in all same areas and I would bet the ZL1 would fare better...Pulley/E/85 on the Camaro and you're really fast in 1/4 and same mods on Stang and voila!!!

 

[AustinSN]

I can tell your that when I bought my 1LE, it really only took me a couple of days to get used to the ergo. Once I got used to it, it never entered my memory ever again or was an issue. It wasn’t until I got my Shelby that I realized (again) how much better the view was. I enjoyed the way my 1LE drove so much, that it actually overshadowed the experience with my 14 500 with the track package.

I hear you in regards to the enthusiasts. Ford takes the cake there. Ford has accumulated most of the hard core fans, over the years.

Yeah I agree, unfortunately a short test drive isn't long enough.

What Chevy needs to do is have an extended test drive for anyone they deem serious. If they want these things in peoples hands and they come to check them out, tell them to keep a demo over the weekend or whatever. They could possibly generate sales.

If the Camaro gets booted, the Mustang will slow on improvements.

 

[Corbic]

Yeah I agree, unfortunately a short test drive isn't long enough.

What Chevy needs to do is have an extended test drive for anyone they deem serious. If they want these things in peoples hands and they come to check them out, tell them to keep a demo over the weekend or whatever. They could possibly generate sales.

If the Camaro gets booted, the Mustang will slow on improvements.

Or just make a car with an actual greenhouse instead of gun-slits for windows.

This has always been the Camaros downfall. Technically better then a Mustang, but practically, visually and financially inferior for the average consumer.



Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

 

[Monster5.0]

As I stated before, yes I’ve driven the ZL1 extensively. I also owned a 2017 SS 1LE for a year before it was stolen. The visibility thing is a complete non issue unless you are 4’7 or 6’9. Any height and proportionate torso to leg ratio and you will have no problems. The inside gives the feeling of a cockpit rather than a car interior. Yes the challenger and mustang have more perceivable interior space and visibility, but it’s not a problem in the 6th gen. The rags and internet reviewers are way off vs real world ownership.

As for the ZL1 1LE, I’d understand that model not being a huge seller. It’s a track car. The standard ZL1 is the hot setup. And they makes tons of power with Bolton’s.

 

[Sonic605hp]

Another great post at least you copied and pasted so it wasn't in your broken English ese.

 

[Monster5.0]

Another great post at least you copied and pasted so it wasn't in your broken English ese.

View attachment 1620197

Me? Whatcha talkin bout Willis?

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

There’s no Demon there. That’s a RedEye.

ZL1 1LE is definitely the best bang for the buck.

Great car there.


Ergonomics, nor visibility are a problem. Takes about a week to get used to it. Adapt and overcome, kinda like driving a Gallardo.

Suspension is fantastic if you are an enthusiast, not so much if you are not or you are brittle.

As I stated before, yes I’ve driven the ZL1 extensively. I also owned a 2017 SS 1LE for a year before it was stolen. The visibility thing is a complete non issue unless you are 4’7 or 6’9. Any height and proportionate torso to leg ratio and you will have no problems. The inside gives the feeling of a cockpit rather than a car interior. Yes the challenger and mustang have more perceivable interior space and visibility, but it’s not a problem in the 6th gen. The rags and internet reviewers are way off vs real world ownership.

As for the ZL1 1LE, I’d understand that model not being a huge seller. It’s a track car. The standard ZL1 is the hot setup. And they makes tons of power with Bolton’s.

5’6. Can’t see shit in them. Just was driving my buddies 2 SS. Stability was meh on factory tires which is the case on all 3 pony cars in the base to mid level v8 option groups.

The interior ergo’s are funny. It took me 30 seconds plus to turn off traction control and put it in track mode while driving. Not hard or anything, the buttons are right on the console but it takes your eyes clean off the road.

Chassis wise, 6th gen camaro’s always feel tight and ready to race basically, but I think they also feel artificially numb on center and distant.

Great cars overall though. I can’t see shit while driving them or find the creature comforts, but if I could, I’d be very interested in buying an older 5/6th gen.

 

[Sonic605hp]

OP.

Me? Whatcha talkin bout Willis?

 

[Monster5.0]

Before I say this, just know Im not trying to disrespect you. But my wife is 5'6 and she had no trouble putting the seat bottom up, and driving my 1LE SS. She had a blast driving it and was perfectly comfortable in the recaros. I on the other hand are on the "wide" side of 6'. And the recaros were very narrow in the mid lumbar area. I contemplated trading the recaros off for some 2SS leather normal seats. No matter the seats though, the outward visibility was never an issue for any of us. The 1LE was such a beast and usually proved too much for daily driving. I do miss it for the times when I would get into driving like an ass with it. But for daily duty, it was a handful.

The ZL1 with the 10 speed for me would be the best of all worlds. I just found a local used 17 manual ZL1 with 18k miles for $43k. Thats a STEAL. Cam, heads, headers and a pulley and you will be making 750 to the tire.

5’6. Can’t see shit in them. Just was driving my buddies 2 SS. Stability was meh on factory tires which is the case on all 3 pony cars in the base to mid level v8 option groups.

The interior ergo’s are funny. It took me 30 seconds plus to turn off traction control and put it in track mode while driving. Not hard or anything, the buttons are right on the console but it takes your eyes clean off the road.

Chassis wise, 6th gen camaro’s always feel tight and ready to race basically, but I think they also feel artificially numb on center and distant.

Great cars overall though. I can’t see shit while driving them or find the creature comforts, but if I could, I’d be very interested in buying an older 5/6th gen.

 

[ON D BIT]

Honestly, used c7z or new marked down zl1 for $50k?


Or the famous low $50k’s red eye brand new?

 

[My94GT]

Honestly, used c7z or new marked down zl1 for $50k?


Or the famous low $50k’s red eye brand new?

I tell you, with the pricing on the ZL1 it’s hard not to want one. Personally I prefer the look of them even over a GT500, at least the front end. I’d like to drive one at some point.

 

[CobraBob]

ZL1 1LE is definitely the best bang for the buck.

Great car there.

Ergonomics, nor visibility are a problem. Takes about a week to get used to it. Adapt and overcome, kinda like driving a Gallardo.

Suspension is fantastic if you are an enthusiast, not so much if you are not or you are brittle.

Yeah, that's true, and a good point. But I would bet a lot of owners end up accepting (reluctantly) the visibility/ergonomic issues. The Camaro, unfortunately, has long had issues with both, even though there were slight improvements with the 6th Gen. IMO it plagues them today with higher priced Camaro models like this one. And, as already stated, the higher priced ZL1 is in Corvette territory, price wise. I just feel the Corvette hurts ZL1 sales, too. Wonder how the Shelby GT-500 would suffer, sales wise, if Ford had a 2-seater like the Corvette competing with it, price wise.

I drove a 6th Gen Camaro SS, and almost bought one. I really liked the suspension, brakes, motor and how it drove. But ultimately I backed out because I just couldn't compromise with visibility and ergonomics.

 

[My94GT]

Yeah, that's true, and a good point. But I would bet a lot of owners end up accepting (reluctantly) the visibility/ergonomic issues. The Camaro, unfortunately, has long had issues with both, even though there were slight improvements with the 6th Gen. IMO it plagues them today with higher priced Camaro models like this one. And, as already stated, the higher priced ZL1 is in Corvette territory, price wise. I just feel the Corvette hurts ZL1 sales, too. Wonder how the Shelby GT-500 would suffer, sales wise, if Ford had a 2-seater like the Corvette competing with it, price wise.

I drove a 6th Gen Camaro SS, and almost bought one. I really liked the suspension, brakes, motor and how it drove. But ultimately I backed out because I just couldn't compromise with visibility and ergonomics.

Its crazy to think that you can walk in and buy a 2020 ZL1 in the 50s and yet they aren’t flying off dealer lots. I think you’re correct that the vette really hurts that sales of them.

 

[ZYBORG]

5’6. Can’t see shit in them. Just was driving my buddies 2 SS. Stability was meh on factory tires which is the case on all 3 pony cars in the base to mid level v8 option groups.

The interior ergo’s are funny. It took me 30 seconds plus to turn off traction control and put it in track mode while driving. Not hard or anything, the buttons are right on the console but it takes your eyes clean off the road.

Chassis wise, 6th gen camaro’s always feel tight and ready to race basically, but I think they also feel artificially numb on center and distant.

Great cars overall though. I can’t see shit while driving them or find the creature comforts, but if I could, I’d be very interested in buying an older 5/6th gen.

couldnt disagree more, mein.


1LE is incredibly stable in factory Tires.
Interior is a bit smaller, but I’ll happily take that with the lower curb weight. It is tight and ready to race and total opposite from numb. Weird how you don’t see shit, because I would think that shorter people would have an easier time than me in this car.

Camaro are very underrated but have tons of potential. They just have a much smaller group of enthusiasts/ hardcore guys that lust for them, compared to the mustang.

 

[ZYBORG]

Yeah, that's true, and a good point. But I would bet a lot of owners end up accepting (reluctantly) the visibility/ergonomic issues. The Camaro, unfortunately, has long had issues with both, even though there were slight improvements with the 6th Gen. IMO it plagues them today with higher priced Camaro models like this one. And, as already stated, the higher priced ZL1 is in Corvette territory, price wise. I just feel the Corvette hurts ZL1 sales, too. Wonder how the Shelby GT-500 would suffer, sales wise, if Ford had a 2-seater like the Corvette competing with it, price wise.

I drove a 6th Gen Camaro SS, and almost bought one. I really liked the suspension, brakes, motor and how it drove. But ultimately I backed out because I just couldn't compromise with visibility and ergonomics.

Hey Bob, I can tell you this. When I bought my 1LE, I bought it un-driven. After the deal was done and as I was driving out the lot with about 6 miles on the car, I wondered how I was gonna get used to the ergo and blind spots.

fast forward a week... that feeling completely disappeared. Never thought about it again. You just adapt and overcome.

The corvette definitely hurts Camaro sales.

 

[C0bra99]

More fuel to the fire.

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

couldnt disagree more, mein.


1LE is incredibly stable in factory Tires.
Interior is a bit smaller, but I’ll happily take that with the lower curb weight. It is tight and ready to race and total opposite from numb. Weird how you don’t see shit, because I would think that shorter people would have an easier time than me in this car.

Camaro are very underrated but have tons of potential. They just have a much smaller group of enthusiasts/ hardcore guys that lust for them, compared to the mustang.

With the seat comfortably low as I like it (on the floor) I can’t see out of the 3/4 windows at all. It’s like they are a foot higher than my eyes.

When I raise the chair all the way up, they are 6” higher than my eyes, and my hair is touching the roof... then the entire interior is impossible to work with.

I drive them with the seat where I need it to comfortably see out of the windshield and use the controls, and just assume that all is well in blind spot world. I drive 6th gens as if I’m a hotel heiress and have zero ****s to give about other motorists. At least there is decent power to do so. Gap here, ace there.

The Camaro has usually always been the better handler back through the late 70’s until even today. Iroc’s trounced 5.0’s. 4th gen SS danced well with its sla front. 5th gen handily out did 4th gen. 6th gen dances past s550.

Feel though, the 2ss doesn’t have what a 1le or a zl1 has going on.

Now, that said, a stock s550 gt withould a handling pack isn’t winning any steering awards either, and even a handling pack Mustang gt is still vague.

I’m spoiled. I have a solid steering rack and tubular kmember from maximum motor sports on my cobra, with a light aluminum block, with delrin everywhere and it just feels far better than new stuff I drive.

I drove a 370z with similar changes and it felt excellent, better than my cobra by margins I’ll admit are vast.

The Camaro is 200lbs lighter than an s550 on average and you notice that, but the wow switch is when you go from a 6th gen or s550 to a worked over Honda S2000 or Nissan 370Z or redone c6z imo.

(All in the vein of chassis work obviously)

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

Before I say this, just know Im not trying to disrespect you. But my wife is 5'6 and she had no trouble putting the seat bottom up, and driving my 1LE SS. She had a blast driving it and was perfectly comfortable in the recaros. I on the other hand are on the "wide" side of 6'. And the recaros were very narrow in the mid lumbar area. I contemplated trading the recaros off for some 2SS leather normal seats. No matter the seats though, the outward visibility was never an issue for any of us. The 1LE was such a beast and usually proved too much for daily driving. I do miss it for the times when I would get into driving like an ass with it. But for daily duty, it was a handful.

The ZL1 with the 10 speed for me would be the best of all worlds. I just found a local used 17 manual ZL1 with 18k miles for $43k. Thats a STEAL. Cam, heads, headers and a pulley and you will be making 750 to the tire.

Ya I can’t see shit rearward or 3/4. I have a 30-32” waist and 44” chest (bench pressing little runt). My arms aren’t massive but I have 13-14” biceps and fit like an upside down pair in these cars. My guys small, and I run the wheel all the way down, seat down,

I want to love the 6th gen because on paper it’s exactly what I want... it’s pretty sore topic. It’s like I’m that kid that’s too short to ride when it comes to 6th gens... I’m gonna go comb my hair over one eye and cry

 

[ZYBORG]

With the seat comfortably low as I like it (on the floor) I can’t see out of the 3/4 windows at all. It’s like they are a foot higher than my eyes.

When I raise the chair all the way up, they are 6” higher than my eyes, and my hair is touching the roof... then the entire interior is impossible to work with.

I drive them with the seat where I need it to comfortably see out of the windshield and use the controls, and just assume that all is well in blind spot world. I drive 6th gens as if I’m a hotel heiress and have zero ****s to give about other motorists. At least there is decent power to do so. Gap here, ace there.

The Camaro has usually always been the better handler back through the late 70’s until even today. Iroc’s trounced 5.0’s. 4th gen SS danced well with its sla front. 5th gen handily out did 4th gen. 6th gen dances past s550.

Feel though, the 2ss doesn’t have what a 1le or a zl1 has going on.

Now, that said, a stock s550 gt withould a handling pack isn’t winning any steering awards either, and even a handling pack Mustang gt is still vague.

I’m spoiled. I have a solid steering rack and tubular kmember from maximum motor sports on my cobra, with a light aluminum block, with delrin everywhere and it just feels far better than new stuff I drive.

I drove a 370z with similar changes and it felt excellent, better than my cobra by margins I’ll admit are vast.

The Camaro is 200lbs lighter than an s550 on average and you notice that, but the wow switch is when you go from a 6th gen or s550 to a worked over Honda S2000 or Nissan 370Z or redone c6z imo.

(All in the vein of chassis work obviously)

I’d really like to drive your Cobra. Most cobras I have driven leave a lot to be desired, except an old buddy’s vert 03 (out of all cars). He got lucky as the previous owner invested good money into suspension goodies.

In the back of my mind, I say to myself that I will find to a 03/04, but not a lot of good deals out there.