Turbo really better?

[Juiced46]

I know Apples vs Oranges, however I was being somewhat sarcastic. I did not mean to knock on the Turbo Cobras as they are still very nice cars, and your car is indeed a prime example of that. I am curious what it does in the Quarter Mile?

My opinion personally, why ruin the '03-'04 Cobra heritage by changing power adders? That is unless you want an all-out race Cobra for race purposes and best results.

I think the fastest twin screw Cobra in quarter mile so far is around 9.2 elapsed time, and a low to mid 8 ET for Turbo. Speed costs money either way, so it depends on how deep of a pocket does one have for what purpose in mind.

When you start running times like that, cost is going to be the same no matter what power adder you use.

Just because someone puts a Turbo on their Cobra doesnt mean its an all out race car. My car is just as streetable as any twin screw car out there, but with more power.

If one is worried about ruining the 03-04 Cobra heritage then they shouldnt mod it at all. Putting a big twinscrew on it is just as bad as putting a Turbo on the car as far as changing the way the car came from the factory. Who cares if its easier to put a twinscew on over a turbo. In the end if you want to make big power, and run fast times its going to cost you money and the parts that made the 03-04 Cobra what it is, wouldnt be on the car in either case.

I have no 1/4 times with my car yet. Waiting for spring to come here in CT then I will hit the track. Im planning on some 9 sec passes with a stick and I can drive it home. If I run a 9.7 and someone runs a 9.6 with their twinscrew, then good for them. Does it mean the twinscrew is better? Not necessarily.

 

[HomeboyNorm]

why can't a turbo cobra be just a daily driver, weekend cruiser and occassional track car just like a eaton/TS car?

Sure, it can be a daily driver, but what's 1, 2, or 3 seconds and few MPH faster for $15k-$20k more if that's how the car will be used?

I do realize some people have very deep pockets so money is not even a concern. For those that money is of a concern to.. You can go and buy a liter bike and be the king of streets for under $10k. Then you still have a dependable Cobra that can go 100,000 miles or beyond. You can't really use all of that power even stock on the streets before you start breaking the laws anyway. Problems will be inevitable when you start swapping power adders unless you are one of the few lucky ones who didn't have to work out all the kinks, and so on. My very near stock Cobra still gives me a smile every time out and that's with best reliability.

If money is a concern, then why not a port and polish and maybe a little bit of laughing gas? Save the money for when that dependable factory built engine finally gives up the ghost. It will still be powerful, and fast on the streets. The poster wants to do some road racing, so I wouldn't know about nitrous for that. Twin screw or turbo would probably be better in this situation if he has the money to burn on either set up. Either the twin screw or turbo swap will probably end up with engine rebuild at a later time if not already done the same time as a preventative action.

 

[HomeboyNorm]

When you start running times like that, cost is going to be the same no matter what power adder you use.

Your statement above is a valid point. I am aware of it as I stated this before your post: Speed cost money either way.

Just because someone puts a Turbo on their Cobra doesnt mean its an all out race car. My car is just as streetable as any twin screw car out there, but with more power.

How much more power before some laws are seriously broken?

If one is worried about ruining the 03-04 Cobra heritage then they shouldnt mod it at all. Putting a big twinscrew on it is just as bad as putting a Turbo on the car as far as changing the way the car came from the factory. Who cares if its easier to put a twinscew on over a turbo. In the end if you want to make big power, and run fast times its going to cost you money and the parts that made the 03-04 Cobra what it is, wouldnt be on the car in either case.

I think there is an Eaton car knocking on the 9's with possibly less money spent. There are other ways to run fast times for less money.

I have no 1/4 times with my car yet. Waiting for spring to come here in CT then I will hit the track. Im planning on some 9 sec passes with a stick and I can drive it home. If I run a 9.7 and someone runs a 9.6 with their twinscrew, then good for them. Does it mean the twinscrew is better? Not necessarily.

You had a goal, and you spent some serious dough to meet the set goal. I don't doubt you can drive it home, but a twin screw can be driven home also. Although I hinted at it, I did not say a twin screw is better, but maybe a little bit cheaper.

 

[BLK_03]

Sure, it can be a daily driver, but what's 1, 2, or 3 seconds and few MPH faster for $15k-$20k more if that's how the car will be used?

I do realize some people have very deep pockets so money is not even a concern. For those that money is of a concern to.. You can go and buy a liter bike and be the king of streets for under $10k. Then you still have a dependable Cobra that can go 100,000 miles or beyond. You can't really use all of that power even stock on the streets before you start breaking the laws anyway. Problems will be inevitable when you start swapping power adders unless you are one of the few lucky ones who didn't have to work out all the kinks, and so on. My very near stock Cobra still gives me a smile every time out and that's with best reliability.

If money is a concern, then why not a port and polish and maybe a little bit of laughing gas? Save the money for when that dependable factory built engine finally gives up the ghost. It will still be powerful, and fast on the streets. The poster wants to do some road racing, so I wouldn't know about nitrous for that. Twin screw or turbo would probably be better in this situation if he has the money to burn on either set up. Either the twin screw or turbo swap will probably end up with engine rebuild at a later time if not already done the same time as a preventative action.

I've been through all that. Port. "Laughing Gas". Motor. "Dependable factory built engine"? Mine is 10X more dependable now after putting better stuff in it than Ford did.

My car is still Cobra and I bleed SVT. My car is more dependable than when it was a stock blower car as there is no blower belt to shred and no FRPS to blow. Ever have one of those pop? I did. 5 times. Leaving me stuck 4 times. Hell, I think I went through 3 or 4 alternators as well. Car had under 50K miles.

Sure, it can be a daily driver, but what's 1, 2, or 3 seconds and few MPH faster for $15k-$20k more if that's how the car will be used?

A whole shitload. If that stock 110 MPH brick you drive puts a smile on your face, go for a ride in a 140+MPH twin turbo car. You'll crap your Depends, lol.

 

[HomeboyNorm]

I've been through all that. Port. "Laughing Gas". Motor. "Dependable factory built engine"? Mine is 10X more dependable now after putting better stuff in it than Ford did.

My car is still Cobra and I bleed SVT. My car is more dependable than when it was a stock blower car as there is no blower belt to shred and no FRPS to blow. Ever have one of those pop? I did. 5 times. Leaving me stuck 4 times. Hell, I think I went through 3 or 4 alternators as well. Car had under 50K miles.

A whole shitload. If that stock 110 MPH brick you drive puts a smile on your face, go for a ride in a 140+MPH twin turbo car. You'll crap your Depends, lol.

I have not seen a converted Turbo '03-'04 Cobra with built engine go past the 100,000 mile mark yet. That is not 10x more dependable. Your engine is more dependable now for your given power level and the very high HP cars don't generally last that long either way.

Yes, your car is still a Cobra, and I understand you bleed SVT. No, not even a single engine issue yet on my car. You blew the FRPS 5 times? Good grief, perhaps you should have been more careful not to hit your rev-limiter too often unless I am mistaken about the cause of this failure issue.

:lol:, very funny! I've been in a 9 second 145+ MPH Grand National, so I know. I guess I can not argue in the Turbo section of this forum. The smile my car puts on my face is primarily from knowing it is still a pretty fast car that I can drive to Alaska and back with no worries. My reliable 115mph brick can be turned into a 130mph brick for 1/4th the money pretty easy, however that wasn't the point. Turbo is the most expensive option there is, and it is pretty much cemented.

 

[BLK_03]

I have not seen a converted Turbo '03-'04 Cobra with built engine go past the 100,000 mile mark yet. That is not 10x more dependable. Your engine is more dependable now for your given power level and the very high HP cars don't generally last that long either way.

Yes, your car is still a Cobra, and I understand you bleed SVT. No, not even a single engine issue yet on my car. You blew the FRPS 5 times? Good grief, perhaps you should have been more careful not to hit your rev-limiter too often unless I am mistaken about the cause of this failure issue.

:lol:, very funny! I've been in a 9 second 145+ MPH Grand National, so I know. I guess I can not argue in the Turbo section of this forum. The smile my car puts on my face is primarily from knowing it is still a pretty fast car that I can drive to Alaska and back with no worries. My reliable 115mph brick can be turned into a 130mph brick for 1/4th the money pretty easy, however that wasn't the point. Turbo is the most expensive option there is, and it is pretty much cemented.

OK

lol

 

[HomeboyNorm]

Should I



:lol:

 

[Juiced46]

I have not seen a converted Turbo '03-'04 Cobra with built engine go past the 100,000 mile mark yet. That is not 10x more dependable. Your engine is more dependable now for your given power level and the very high HP cars don't generally last that long either way.

Yes, your car is still a Cobra, and I understand you bleed SVT. No, not even a single engine issue yet on my car. You blew the FRPS 5 times? Good grief, perhaps you should have been more careful not to hit your rev-limiter too often unless I am mistaken about the cause of this failure issue.

:lol:, very funny! I've been in a 9 second 145+ MPH Grand National, so I know. I guess I can not argue in the Turbo section of this forum. The smile my car puts on my face is primarily from knowing it is still a pretty fast car that I can drive to Alaska and back with no worries. My reliable 115mph brick can be turned into a 130mph brick for 1/4th the money pretty easy, however that wasn't the point. Turbo is the most expensive option there is, and it is pretty much cemented.

You havent seen a converted Cobra with 100k miles on it yet because, there arent that many people that put that many miles on their Cobra stock or modded.

When my car was stock it put a smile on my face.......... For about a week. Some people taking modding their car as a hobby and like to push it hard. Some people dont like to spend alot of money and just drive their car. I like to spend alot of money and still drive my car :-D My car is just as reliable as yours, but with a heck of alot more power when I want it. I dont have to drive around with 800 hp all day long.. You probably can go 130mph with 1/4 of the amount I have spent. A turbo car is just as reliable as a blower car. A turbo car will make more power with less boost and less strain on the engine and less heat then a twinscrew.

Yes a turbo car is ulimately the most expensive out there. But in the end if you want a twin screw car to perform like a turbo car its going to cost the same amount of money.

 

[Blown04GT]

Norman - if your argument is that it would be cheaper to go twin screw than turbo and it will still put a smile on your face and run fast times, go buy a 4-cylinder coupe and put a junkyard 347 and a big shot on it and call it a day.

The whole picture here isn't cost. If it was, then the 03-04 cobras wouldn't even be in the conversation. Point is, there are different goals for different people. If your goal is to be happy with 400rwhp and near stock, then fine. Dont go turbo. But if you want 700+ rwhp then you might want to consider it.

And for someone like BLK 03 who has been through pretty much all of the stages of modding, I think I would listen to him. He has spent all of the money going different routes and ended up the happiest with going turbo.

 

[Sticker Monster]

I have the best idea yet! Go with the Hellion Compound Boost set/up. It's the best of both worlds. You get the low end torque of a blower and the top end power of a Turbo..

 

[HomeboyNorm]

The whole picture here isn't cost. If it was, then the 03-04 cobras wouldn't even be in the conversation. Point is, there are different goals for different people. If your goal is to be happy with 400rwhp and near stock, then fine. Dont go turbo. But if you want 700+ rwhp then you might want to consider it.

Ah, what a tough crowd here. The poster of this thread is concerned about money and cost in a way even though he titled this thread, "Is Turbo really better?".

I thought you could slap on a Whipple for half the price of a turbo kit and still be competitive with a majority of cars out there. This combo is good for low 10's for many who didn't want to spend upwards to $20k or even more but less than $10k. That $10k or less will also cover a built motor. This combo can possibly even do high 9's with the right driver and suspension modifications.

 

[Roushman]

It has alot to do with ego's around here.......... Do what makes you happy. Both options leave you with a fantastic car still way under the price of a new z06. Hell I am having my short block built now...<will it ever be done> and I thought turbo also. imagine what I could be pushing with that set up:banana: but in the end what I want was just having prob. aroung 650-700rwhp whipple to drive the 12 miles back and forth to work......Thats all you can worry about. Someone will always be faster.......Hell I just saw in the magazine where someone put on both power adders. Maybe I should go that route:shrug:



LONG LIVE COBRA TERMINATION:beer:

 

[Blown04GT]

Ah, what a tough crowd here. The poster of this thread is concerned about money and cost in a way even though he titled this thread, "Is Turbo really better?".

I thought you could slap on a Whipple for half the price of a turbo kit and still be competitive with a majority of cars out there. This combo is good for low 10's for many who didn't want to spend upwards to $20k or even more but less than $10k. That $10k or less will also cover a built motor. This combo can possibly even do high 9's with the right driver and suspension modifications.

Very true. I am not (and don't think I have ever posted this) totally against going whipple or KB. In my case, I wanted the wow factor of turbos and the ability to make some crazy hp if for some crazy reason my stock shortblock can't hold 800rwhp In someone elses case, maybe they just want to run low 10's or high 9's as cheap as possible and doesn't really care about anything else.

I am not "turbo-biased" so to speak. Hell, I have only had my car back for one day. But from driving it for that one day, I wouldn't go twin-screw for anything. And if someone is on the fence on which route to go for a street car...........if you haven't been in a turbo cobra, do yourself a favor and go for a ride before making your decision.

 

[Juiced46]

That $10k or less will also cover a built motor.

See thats one issue. You are saying for 10k or less you can get a Whipple/KB and a built motor instead of spending just 10k on a turbo kit. What about all the other supporting mods? Fuel, suspension, drivetrain, tires, pulleys, belts, cooling mods, labor(if you dont do it yourself) By the time you are done its still 15-20k easily, to do it right.

Some people dont realize what it really costs when you really start getting into modifying cars like this regardless of the power adder.

Like others have said, everyone has their goals and budget.

If you are looking to make 600-650rwhp on a semi-budget project I would say go twin screw. If you are looking for more then I would vote Turbo all the way. After that power level the cost will be roughly the same give or take maybe 1-2k. Both setups would need a better motor. Sure you can do it on a stocker but thats a crap shoot. Remember if you go turbo you can also recoup some money by selling parts. I got $2500 from selling stock parts. So lets say a Hellion single is $6500-$2500 that is $4k. The same price of a 2.8 KB or 3.4 Whipple. Seems like an obvious choice for me :beer:

 

[TRBO VNM]

the reliability argument should go out the window. any car built with the correct parts and tuned properly will be plenty reliable. I drove my 04 turbo cobra from MD to FL and back. I also drove it on the hot rod power tour from southern VA to Englinshtown NJ over a 3 day period with 4-5hr driving times each day in 95+ degree weather. and at the end of the last day(about 98 degrees) I had an hour cool time, put 116 octane in and did the dyno challenge and won. pretty reliable I would say.

as stated, if money is an issue, don't go turbo.

and if you look around, just bolting a whipple on is not as competitive as it once was. And if you mention the new 3.4, well, that starts possibly requiring other mods just to get it to fit.

 

[BLK_03]

Ah, what a tough crowd here. The poster of this thread is concerned about money and cost in a way even though he titled this thread, "Is Turbo really better?".

I thought you could slap on a Whipple for half the price of a turbo kit and still be competitive with a majority of cars out there. This combo is good for low 10's for many who didn't want to spend upwards to $20k or even more but less than $10k. That $10k or less will also cover a built motor. This combo can possibly even do high 9's with the right driver and suspension modifications.

Here is a built motor'd, cam'd, solid axle'd KB car @ 23 psi versus my car at 22 psi. Although I'm sure it is less, this car has close to what I have in mine from a monetary perspective.

In this race, I ask him to honk. I was going to brake boost before we went, but he was on it with the honk. I wasn't quite ready, lol, so it takes a second for boost to come in, but you'll get the point.

TT Cobra vs KB Cobra

 

[HomeboyNorm]

Here is a built motor'd, cam'd, solid axle'd KB car @ 23 psi versus my car at 22 psi. Although I'm sure it is less, this car has close to what I have in mine from a monetary perspective.

In this race, I ask him to honk. I was going to brake boost before we went, but he was on it with the honk. I wasn't quite ready, lol, so it takes a second for boost to come in, but you'll get the point.

TT Cobra vs KB Cobra

Nice video. Again like I've said before, I was not trying to knock on the Turbo Cobras. They are definitely sick, and for the more fortunate people with too much money to spend. Money for Money, Turbo is more costly, and this video is not changing it. We all know that speed costs money, and obviously you have more in your car than his.

Do you have video of a race against this same car from digs? I am not sure if the outcome would be the same being that bad as your three second highway roll on race video. Not everybody will start races at 60MPH up to arrest me speeds, but rather from a dead stop. That is what a real race is.

 

[HomeboyNorm]

Question:

Why did Ford and Chevy use positive displacement superchargers on their flagship vehicles in GT40 and the new ZR1?

 

[HomeboyNorm]

the reliability argument should go out the window. any car built with the correct parts and tuned properly will be plenty reliable. I drove my 04 turbo cobra from MD to FL and back. I also drove it on the hot rod power tour from southern VA to Englinshtown NJ over a 3 day period with 4-5hr driving times each day in 95+ degree weather. and at the end of the last day(about 98 degrees) I had an hour cool time, put 116 octane in and did the dyno challenge and won. pretty reliable I would say.

as stated, if money is an issue, don't go turbo.

and if you look around, just bolting a whipple on is not as competitive as it once was. And if you mention the new 3.4, well, that starts possibly requiring other mods just to get it to fit.

It sure does sound reliable for the present time. Will it really last 100,000 miles with a lot of WOT runs? I wouldn't know about that one with no first hand experience.

Why doesn't a 3.4 Whipple fit as bought? Underhood clearance, fuel rail clearance, but what else?

 

[BLK_03]

Question:

Why did Ford and Chevy use positive displacement superchargers on their flagship vehicles in GT40 and the new ZR1?

Ease of manufacture and lower cost, no doubt.

And I'll whoop on both of them, lol.

When I think of some of the baddest, fastest cars ever built from the factory, Grand Nationals and Supras come to mind as well.