'01 cobra beats s281 saleen

[99SVTcobraVERT]

Re: Saleen/Roush

Originally posted by XLR8-R
Because a Roush dynoed at 333 has nothing to do with a Saleen supercharged.

actually in 2001 when they were tested they were very close with roush being touch faster. and yes it has plenty to do with the 2002 saleen s281 in question.

Originally posted by XLR8-R

They have totally different intakes and computers, the Roush is far superior as far as power.

it is not FAR superior, it has slight edge that is at best.

Originally posted by XLR8-R

The 99 Saleen recently ran a 13.97 @ 98mph(best that night),

a 99 saleen isnt in question, a 2002 is. however, if you cant take even that sh*tty of a year saleen into low 13's and well past the 100mph mark then you are the factor, not the car. a stock gt can trap 98mph my friend. dont you think that is just a little weird.. ? oh unless you are comparing a NON supercharged s281, which is what it sounds like. in which that case you are arguing a totally different story.

Originally posted by XLR8-R

the 02 Roush runs 13.6 at best mph of 107(mostly at 104-105).

again the mph alone reflects the huge hp difference in the roush in the saleen you are comparing. so there ya go. NOT same situation.

Originally posted by XLR8-R

My bolt on Cobra went 13.38 @ 105.98(best) These times are all at the same track.

i dont doubt those times at all, matter of fact ive seen far better and faster with just bolt onts. but again big term here is BOLT on, as in far from being considered stock. bolt on is not stock or just stock with some exhaust even.

Originally posted by XLR8-R

The Cobra definitely would give a supercharged Roush a run from a roll, maybe it has more average horsepower?

whoa whoa whoa the higher et of the roush shows that he was spinning and ran that slow with 107 trap. and that was its best by you or whomever was driving it. then you compare your BEST to its average? your best to its best is at least 1mph difference. do you realize what 1mph on the street looks like in a roll race? its him saying bye bye and as the speed gets higher the further he walks away, this would not be a blow out but i wouldnt call it a close race either. and you want to talk about best average hp/tq when you comparing a top end only powered dohc vs a meaty eaton powered 2v? cobra having more average hp per weight? are you kidding me...?

Originally posted by XLR8-R

Remember, it is a supercharged 2 valve V8, and as far as the Saleens go(not an extreme), I would guess they would dyno at about 290 to 300 at the wheels, which is what a bolt on 01 Cobra would.

didnt i already say this? and what about tq? i guess we should not care about the 35-40+ rwtq its makes less than the eaton saleen? also, what does that 290 at the wheels powerband look like with the saleen compared to the cobra?

Originally posted by XLR8-R

By the way, I also owned a 99 Cobra conv., and it was quite a bit slower than my hdtp with almost the same mods, probably the weight.

thats a duh,thats why i said ive raced vert to vert with some of these cars, where weight is a lot closer.

Originally posted by XLR8-R

and it { his 1999 cobra convt} had much more wheel hop than my coupe {his 01 cobra} . It probably would have been beat by a Saleen from a dig, not a roll. That's how I see it, flame away!

well first off the 99's had the first year of the irs and i can tell you right now that my 99 out hopped my 01 stock for stock. wheel hop happens when wheels lose traction. and if anything having heavy vert reduces it just a big because of the added weight. no it wasnt because you had a vert , it was because you had a 99 and now you have an 01, two totally different cars. and oh yeah not to mention its duh that a vert can be slower than a coupe because of the weight. (depending on hp output from each stock and driver of course). and yes you COULD possibly beat a saleen from a dig if you were the better driver. but if you were to practice and get to know both cars and really put your heart into both runs, you would see that the saleen sc would have quicker times and higher mph.

 

[93deznutsblown]

Nice Kill........:beer: ......99-01's dont get the respect they deserve by some peoples.......not all cars are created equal....thats why they all can dyno different #'s. I'm glad to see the 01 Cobra putting the smack down on the Saleen. No offense to the Saleen owners, its always nice to beat a car that should by all rights beat you. Just my .02.:burnout:

 

[99SVTcobraVERT]

Originally posted by wma8706
dont doubt the arguments here about the blown saleen but I'm just quoting from my experience in both cars. The argument about saleen's performance looks good on paper but on the street and on any given day the outcome may be different. Its like comparing dyno numbers on a 320 rwhp ls1 with a 287 rwhp mach1 both cars being stick shifts and have comparable weights. On paper the ls1 looks to outgun the mach1 but in real life these 2 cars are very equal in 1/4 mile.

what ls1 test was this that it couldnt take a mach1 that was under powered by 30 at the wheels? ive never heard of this before. in addition they may be equal if mach is far better driver. also gearing,tires and suspension plays role in this, not just peak rwhp numbers. but i dont know a 320rwhp ls1 that couldnt take a mach 1 with that much less at tires... i mean in that mach 1 vs gto in mmff, the gto weighed more and didnt make 320rwhp and ran almost same times as the mach but at like 2mph higher. so if both same weights and that ls1 in a camaro or vette,then i dont see how it couldnt take the win.

Originally posted by wma8706

I also agree there is a bit of performance difference between a cobra conv., and cobra coupe. The argument of nearstock cobra vs boosted 2v modular.... well depends on what one considers near stock. With my 4.30 and catback I think I can comfortably hold my own against a stock s281sc ..... ( guess I may be high and stupid)

near stock is like a catback maybe or a cold air. but 4.30's with a catback is not near stock. with you having such crazy gearing you MIGHT be able to tear one up good thru 60ft or even 1/8th and thats if you tree him and you dont spin. but chances are he will run you down with his hp. again you are down on hp, down on A LOT of tq, and the irs does weigh more than the live axle.

 

[XLR8-R]

First, let me say that I have nothing against Saleens, they are awesome looking and driving cars. That said, where are the low 13, high twelve second cars, stock or close to stock? Based on real world numbers that I have seen at my track, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the ones that are provided for the magazine tests are highly tuned and not representative of what a consumer gets. Again, somebody that owns one could give us real numbers... I believe you will find plenty of mildly modified 99-01 Cobras in this ET range. (guess I might be high and stupid too?)

 

[E. Green Cobra]

Originally posted by XLR8-R
First, let me say that I have nothing against Saleens, they are awesome looking and driving cars. That said, where are the low 13, high twelve second cars, stock or close to stock? Based on real world numbers that I have seen at my track, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the ones that are provided for the magazine tests are highly tuned and not representative of what a consumer gets. Again, somebody that owns one could give us real numbers... I believe you will find plenty of mildly modified 99-01 Cobras in this ET range. (guess I might be high and stupid too?)

I agree- Saleens are known for not running the numbers. All the way back to the S-351's. Whether its the suspension setup, the bodykit, or maybe even the small sidewall of the tires, they just dont run like the numbers suggest- similar arguments could be made for pig heavy 03/04 cobras as well. (Perhaps theS281-E's are different)
I 'd have to say that the only (new)Ford car that actually gets up on its horse and runs away are the Mach1's. As far as advertised power/expected E.T.

 

[99SVTcobraVERT]

again mostly stock and mildly modified to me are two different things. mostly stock (which is in everyones own opinion) to me is an air filter, maybe a shifter. and at most one power mod like catback,or pullies,or cai. because that is what the term means , that the car is mostly stock. to me when you say mildly modified i take it as the usual suspects as far as bolt ons go. catback,x pipe,cai,maybe a gear. difference between car a and car b is two different cars ,hp number,dyno,and track times. again im not paper racing, this is what ive seen to be true as far as the saleen sc goes. i take back the high/stupid thing, i am just frustrated that it seems im the only one that has squared off with these things on the street and the strip (with a good driver).

i just dont understand what some people dont get about a ton more tq and at LEAST 10-20rwhp more stock vs stock. and at best cobra being same weight as saleen by the time you factor in a fully loaded one with suspension,bigger wheels/tires and weight of sc etc etc. i love my cobra, and in stock or modified form i have no illusions of what it can beat because of all the cars it has faced off against.

look at it this way here are two dyno's from saleen sc and one is so screwed up that the a/f is all out of whack.

http://www.fallscitymustangclub.com/images/dynograph.JPG

and 2nd one is on a dyno that measured a 98 cobra @237rwhp and a non sc saleen at 199rwhp! so its obvious that this dyno doesnt do any of the cars justice.

http://www.fallscitymustangclub.com/images/dynograph.JPG

oh and here are the rest of the dyno's off that site:
http://www.fallscitymustangclub.com/track.htm


now, if you will paper race with me for a second,which i hate to do but im trying to appeal to logic side of those whom havent reaced one... take into account same weight, and then compare a stock cobra dyno or one with just a catback or something small like that on it. and compare it to the saleen dyno... the instant tq alone makes it obvious that the saleen would at LEAST pull out front and stay there even if the cobra stopped it from pulling. now off paper you are right, ive seen some pretty horrible drivers at track (myself included,we have all been guilty at one time or another even if it was when you first started)

like i said before, i agree that it is possible he did beat the saleen in 1/4 mile. because there are some fantasic cobra drivers out there, many of which post on this board. but to say the saleen wasnt pulling back at the end? either it was a small pull and too little too late and you couldnt notice (tends to happen when you are in front hehe) or the guy just flat out couldnt drive it. in the end i said before he won and thats all that matters

 

[E. Green Cobra]

Originally posted by NOScobra2001
again mostly stock and ......in the end i said before he won and thats all that matters

I think we all get what your saying and indeed most feel that yes a 320 hp 01 should not be pulling a 350-365hp Saleen, but there are so many factors that can negate the 20-30 hp were talking about. As for the tq- well sure it means something for SOTP, but most of the cars aren't gonna be run from 2300-redline. So the tq advantage plays a smaller role. The real point of interest would be the av hp and tq between say 4000 and 6500 assuming similar weight and gearing that would give the best estimate of what happened. My guess is that up top the 2v and blower combo isn't much more effiecient (if at all)than a 4v cobra as full song.

To put it another way a stock Ls1 camaro puts out in the area of 280-320rwhp depending on the yr and usually in the neighborhood of 340ish tq. typically they run from anywhere to the high 12's to the low 14's depending on driver, track, elevation etc. But lets just say they are a low to mid 13 second car. The Mach1 also runs low 13's-low 14's, and could be considered a low to mid 13 second car as well. But it does so with 270-280ish rwhp and usually arond 300ish rwtq. Yes the LS1 is out tqing the mach, but there still running similar e.t. at similar weight but with different gearing.b

 

[Joe5.0]

ok guys i am going to the track in the 00 saleen this weekend and am hoping to solve this issue with saleens not being up to there potential or whatever in the quater mile. i have the new series 4 blower with the stock 3.55's and no traction control and the car is an convertible.im lookin to run 12.99 or low 13. it takes close to no effort to put any saleen it high 12,s. simple mods will get you there but should be in that range stock without paying to arms and to legs for an extreme saleen.

 

[corysmach1]

The newest issue of MM&FF was obviously a slow track cuz in the past issues the Mach went 13.13 and 13.15 both at 106mph and I think that matches any stock LS-1 time. I raced a stock LS-1 when I was stock and took him by 2 car lengths. Everybody thinks power numbers are everything-"No traction, no action" Mach 1's just hook better out of the whole stock for stock, yes LS-1 make plenty of power to run better time but you have to get the power to the ground first. I respect LS-1's they are wicked cars, especially when modded and from roll.

 

[04supercharged]

That is the most bs I have ever heard. I test drove a Supercharged Saleen and they were fast. Atleast faster than a 01 cobra

 

[99SVTcobraVERT]

Originally posted by mean saleen
ok guys i am going to the track in the 00 saleen this weekend and am hoping to solve this issue with saleens not being up to there potential or whatever in the quater mile. i have the new series 4 blower with the stock 3.55's and no traction control and the car is an convertible.im lookin to run 12.99 or low 13. it takes close to no effort to put any saleen it high 12,s. simple mods will get you there but should be in that range stock without paying to arms and to legs for an extreme saleen.

you have a series IV twin screw which is what came in the first E, now the E has the series V twin screw. we are talking about the eaton that makes around 300 to the tires give or take 10. the twin screw has been dyno at well over 340hp/400tq and makes better power band also. so if you dont run 12's something is SERIOUSLY wrong. in addition a mildly mod gt can hit high 13, if you cant take a gt with any type of blower and 8lbs (thats all the motor is, a gt) and runs high 12's at least,then you dont need to own that car... if you cant do it on factory rubber, fine get some drag radials !

 

[99SVTcobraVERT]

Originally posted by 04supercharged
That is the most bs I have ever heard. I test drove a Supercharged Saleen and they were fast. Atleast faster than a 01 cobra

depends on what year it was. the 99-00 seem to be very disappointing, doing their best to hit even NEAR 300, most 285-295 on average. the 01-02 does better at around 300 if not tad more. the 03/04 has done NO less than 337 from what ive seen and that is the lowest one. also if it were used it might not have been stock, could have had chicane stuff all over it. but yes a stock 99-00 WILL feel faster ,even if it was a dud that did 275 rwhp because it will still be packing over 340 rwtq and its instant. same deal as riding in a nitrous car, even if its not faster its going to feel like it, as long as the supercharged car is within 40-60 hp range. instant power in most cases feels more powerful than rpm travel power

 

[99SVTcobraVERT]

Originally posted by E. Green Cobra
I think we all get what your saying and indeed most feel that yes a 320 hp 01 should not be pulling a 350-365hp Saleen, but there are so many factors that can negate the 20-30 hp were talking about. As for the tq- well sure it means something for SOTP, but most of the cars aren't gonna be run from 2300-redline. So the tq advantage plays a smaller role. The real point of interest would be the av hp and tq between say 4000 and 6500 assuming similar weight and gearing that would give the best estimate of what happened. My guess is that up top the 2v and blower combo isn't much more effiecient (if at all)than a 4v cobra as full song.

To put it another way a stock Ls1 camaro puts out in the area of 280-320rwhp depending on the yr and usually in the neighborhood of 340ish tq. typically they run from anywhere to the high 12's to the low 14's depending on driver, track, elevation etc. But lets just say they are a low to mid 13 second car. The Mach1 also runs low 13's-low 14's, and could be considered a low to mid 13 second car as well. But it does so with 270-280ish rwhp and usually arond 300ish rwtq. Yes the LS1 is out tqing the mach, but there still running similar e.t. at similar weight but with different gearing.b

totally understand where you are talking about, but then again the mach 1 is a totally different beast. i had the chance to drive one a few weeks ago (04 model) and i can say w/o a doubt that it def would have busted my a** stock to stock, even if i had a coupe it DEF would have pulled me. the mach 1 makes A LOT more tq and at better rpms than our cobra's do from that the better cams and over all power too with the new heads and higher compression. ive compared the dyno sheets like you said and i just cant see the 01 pulling on it. besides if were the saleen id make the cobra start at my rpm, around 3200 or so (which with the saleen's 3:55 should put the cobra in decent rpms anyways. and also yes ls1 has decent amounts of tq but it isnt instant eaton supercharger tq either. all i know is all we doing is paper racing talkin about it like this ;-) ive seen the car's square off and i know what happens when the cars are both in stock form. BUT i mean is it really suprising and that hard to believe that a supercharged anything V8 can beat a mostly stock NA cobra? to even say that we can even hang decent close mostly stock even if cant win says something right there.... "hey man im all na and it took you 8lbs of boost to pull me that little bit/large bit (insert driver here lmao) "

in the end im very happy with the choice i made to get my cobra, i could have had used 99-00 saleen s281 sc coupe when i got my car new. but i just fell in love with these dohc's....

p.s. egreen, if for some reason you came off side ways at me and b*tched me out, i couldnt take your seriously because of that dog avitar! lmao and i def couldnt stay mad at you!! :lol:

 

[Joe5.0]

Originally posted by NOScobra2001
you have a series IV twin screw which is what came in the first E, now the E has the series V twin screw. we are talking about the eaton that makes around 300 to the tires give or take 10. the twin screw has been dyno at well over 340hp/400tq and makes better power band also. so if you dont run 12's something is SERIOUSLY wrong. in addition a mildly mod gt can hit high 13, if you cant take a gt with any type of blower and 8lbs (thats all the motor is, a gt) and runs high 12's at least,then you dont need to own that car... if you cant do it on factory rubber, fine get some drag radials !

A SALEEN S-281-E IS ABSOLUTELY LOADED WITH INTERNALS AND IS RATED AT 12.5. MY MOTOR WITH JUST A SUPERCHARGER WONT RUN HIGH TWELVES AT THE LEAST AND I AM AN OUTSTANDIDNG DRIVER. IT WILL PROBLY MAKE HIGH TWELVE AT THE MOST. I HAVENT SEEN THIS BLOWER OVER 320RWHP YET. I NEED TO OWN THIS CAR REGARDLESS OF QUARTER MILE. THERES NO NEED TO BE AN ASS IN HEAR DUDE. I WILL GET DRAG RADIALS IN THE FUTURE, SINCE I HAVE NO TRACTION WHAT SO EVER. AGAIN THIS WEEKEND ILL POST MY TIMES.