2.3 Gen 2 VMP vs 3.0 Gen 5 whipple (driving experience)

[JCDriller]

@MalcolmV8 might have some insight or be able to point you to a guy. The guy that owns that redfire car in his YouTube videos has had multiple cars and I'm pretty sure a 2.3 and 2.65 tvs and now a 3.0 Whipple. Since we only have 91 octane in our state I'd try to go smaller on blower if e85 ever disappears.

I talk to him on at least a weekly basis, we became friends after I purchased his old 2.3vmp sonic blue car. I sold that car, leading me to miss it so much here I am with another sonic thinking about a 2.3 again!

He’s probably the main driver/devil on my shoulder when it comes to the 2.3vmp. Only problem with asking him about the 3.0 is it’s not 91, so it’s hard to get a comparison as most 3.0 people are going for pretty big numbers.

Either way, I’m pretty set on a ported 2.3vmp. I’ll find one in great condition, not in any hurry, but now I know what I’m looking for.

 

[cj428mach]

I talk to him on at least a weekly basis, we became friends after I purchased his old 2.3vmp sonic blue car. I sold that car, leading me to miss it so much here I am with another sonic thinking about a 2.3 again!

He’s probably the main driver/devil on my shoulder when it comes to the 2.3vmp. Only problem with asking him about the 3.0 is it’s not 91, so it’s hard to get a comparison as most 3.0 people are going for pretty big numbers.

Either way, I’m pretty set on a ported 2.3vmp. I’ll find one in great condition, not in any hurry, but now I know what I’m looking for.

After watching those redfire videos I toyed with the idea of a 3.0 Whipple. I talked to Malcolm for his opinion and he said don't do it. He said if he ever upgrades from his 2.3tvs it'll be to a 2.65R but the 3.0 is just a nightmare to work around.

 

[blownfox]

After watching those redfire videos I toyed with the idea of a 3.0 Whipple. I talked to Malcolm for his opinion and he said don't do it. He said if he ever upgrades from his 2.3tvs it'll be to a 2.65R but the 3.0 is just a nightmare to work around.

My neighbor says the same thing about his 2.9 gen 4. It's a PITA to work around.

 

[Soap]

A guy recently managed to run an 8sec 1/4 mile at 150+mph on a Jokerz ported VMP 2.3 at like 27psi. Can't remember if it was a manual or auto car. Car was right at 1000whp.

That would be me, however my car is no where near 1000whp, it was just a stock engine. I recently sold my ported 2.3 though, someone else is enjoying it now!

--Joe

 

[JCDriller]

That would be me, however my car is no where near 1000whp, it was just a stock engine. I recently sold my ported 2.3 though, someone else is enjoying it now!

--Joe

Holy cow that’s moving on a little 2.3! What did you switch over to?

Did you run the 2.3 stock/un-ported as well? Did it feel like it hit as hard once ported or did the power increase on the top end only?

Any dyno charts before vs after the port?

This is exactly the info I’d love to see.

Thanks!

 

[Soap]

Holy cow that’s moving on a little 2.3! What did you switch over to?

Did you run the 2.3 stock/un-ported as well? Did it feel like it hit as hard once ported or did the power increase on the top end only?

Any dyno charts before vs after the port?

This is exactly the info I’d love to see.

Thanks!

Yes I ran it unported, I picked up 2 tenths with the port work and it absolutely hit hard, best 60' was 1.22. Car was never on the dyno though just street/track tuned.

--Joe

 

[SVTXTC]

I talk to him on at least a weekly basis, we became friends after I purchased his old 2.3vmp sonic blue car. I sold that car, leading me to miss it so much here I am with another sonic thinking about a 2.3 again!

He’s probably the main driver/devil on my shoulder when it comes to the 2.3vmp. Only problem with asking him about the 3.0 is it’s not 91, so it’s hard to get a comparison as most 3.0 people are going for pretty big numbers.

Either way, I’m pretty set on a ported 2.3vmp. I’ll find one in great condition, not in any hurry, but now I know what I’m looking for.

All good my friend. Enjoy that little 2.3 on 91 when you have e85 everywhere there. I’ll continue to push you down the rabbit hole.

 

[01yellercobra]

All good my friend. Enjoy that little 2.3 on 91 when you have e85 everywhere there. I’ll continue to push you down the rabbit hole.

We all need friends like this.

 

[Justin@VMP]

I could read this thread a lot of different ways but I'll try to go from very general to very specific to cover everyone's needs....

A lot of Cobra guys were really happy with the original VMP 2.3 L. That blower has done some really awesome things. I think we've pushed our competitors to innovate and generally moved the supercharging scene forward over the past 12 years. Where do we go from here? The Cobra is a tough market to design for because the engine is extremely small displacement at only 4.6 L. You have people wanting to make only 600 rwhp on pump, and then those wanting to make 1100rwhp all-out on E85. Asking a blower to cover that big of a map is very difficult. We trended toward offering the latest/greatest as we do for all of our other lines such as GT500 and Coyote.

About 5 years ago our Cobra offering got an upgrade to the new 2.65 L rotors. Those rotors are extremely good at covering a wide range of horsepower needs, and the ability to fine-tune the port gives us even more coverage.

Why do we only offer a 2.65 L? It came up in the comments earlier that our blower was easiest to install and work on. We cast an entire supercharger housing just for the Cobra. This is different than our competitors that use a 3 piece housing with adapter plate, rotor housing (pick from any one of their offerings), and inlet casting. While this makes it a lot easier to work on, with the minimums for castings and the inventory holds it does not equate to us offering more than one option for such a small market.

How does the VMP 2.65 L cover our customers needs? On pump gas it should be turned down to the bare minimum with a 3.3" upper pulley. This is a big difference compare to the 2.3 L that could run pump with anywhere from a 3.0" down to a 2.8". And this is where the proof is really in the pudding/data/boost whatever you want to call it. The 2.3 was a great blower, but it worked really hard to do what it did. The torque hit was great because you got everything it had right from the start. The 2.65 L rotors while only 15% larger actually behave like they are 25% larger due to improved L/D and profile. We chose to discontinue the 2.3 L because of the trend toward high boost E85 setups on both stock motors and built motors, and the fact that there were approximately 500 2.3 Ls out there. With so many mild Cobra builds still going on I wish we could bring back the 2.3 L, but manufacturing and sourcing has only gotten worse since COVID. Small runs at low costs are a thing of the past. The strength of the 2.65 L rotors and our current Gen3R offering is the incredible efficiency. What you loose in low-end hit vs a 2.3 L is made up with high end power. I notice this more than most because I drive the full range of cars with our supercharger systems, its most noticeable with the high-revving coyote, but still applies to the Cobra and original GT500. When you look at the data, boost curves, knock tolerance, etc, the 2.3 comes on really strong and is actually prone to knock in the mid-range peak torque area. The 2.65 L is milder there so it takes a tad more timing and then keeps building due to its extremely efficient rotor set. On a pull where you are hitting peak RPM multiple times as you row through the gears the 2.65 is building a lot less heat and taking less power to drive from the crankshaft. All good things when it comes to duration of power vs instant hit. That's a lot to digest, in the end, its your car and build and you can choose based on the available info.

We are making some big advances in intercooling technology right now. I believe that this may up-end the traditional blower selection criteria, especially when it comes to max boost vs octane. The stock cobra intercooler is so bad, and what we have developed being so much better, I think there are gains to be had all over the spectrum.

 

[JCDriller]

I could read this thread a lot of different ways but I'll try to go from very general to very specific to cover everyone's needs....

A lot of Cobra guys were really happy with the original VMP 2.3 L. That blower has done some really awesome things. I think we've pushed our competitors to innovate and generally moved the supercharging scene forward over the past 12 years. Where do we go from here? The Cobra is a tough market to design for because the engine is extremely small displacement at only 4.6 L. You have people wanting to make only 600 rwhp on pump, and then those wanting to make 1100rwhp all-out on E85. Asking a blower to cover that big of a map is very difficult. We trended toward offering the latest/greatest as we do for all of our other lines such as GT500 and Coyote.

About 5 years ago our Cobra offering got an upgrade to the new 2.65 L rotors. Those rotors are extremely good at covering a wide range of horsepower needs, and the ability to fine-tune the port gives us even more coverage.

Why do we only offer a 2.65 L? It came up in the comments earlier that our blower was easiest to install and work on. We cast an entire supercharger housing just for the Cobra. This is different than our competitors that use a 3 piece housing with adapter plate, rotor housing (pick from any one of their offerings), and inlet casting. While this makes it a lot easier to work on, with the minimums for castings and the inventory holds it does not equate to us offering more than one option for such a small market.

How does the VMP 2.65 L cover our customers needs? On pump gas it should be turned down to the bare minimum with a 3.3" upper pulley. This is a big difference compare to the 2.3 L that could run pump with anywhere from a 3.0" down to a 2.8". And this is where the proof is really in the pudding/data/boost whatever you want to call it. The 2.3 was a great blower, but it worked really hard to do what it did. The torque hit was great because you got everything it had right from the start. The 2.65 L rotors while only 15% larger actually behave like they are 25% larger due to improved L/D and profile. We chose to discontinue the 2.3 L because of the trend toward high boost E85 setups on both stock motors and built motors, and the fact that there were approximately 500 2.3 Ls out there. With so many mild Cobra builds still going on I wish we could bring back the 2.3 L, but manufacturing and sourcing has only gotten worse since COVID. Small runs at low costs are a thing of the past. The strength of the 2.65 L rotors and our current Gen3R offering is the incredible efficiency. What you loose in low-end hit vs a 2.3 L is made up with high end power. I notice this more than most because I drive the full range of cars with our supercharger systems, its most noticeable with the high-revving coyote, but still applies to the Cobra and original GT500. When you look at the data, boost curves, knock tolerance, etc, the 2.3 comes on really strong and is actually prone to knock in the mid-range peak torque area. The 2.65 L is milder there so it takes a tad more timing and then keeps building due to its extremely efficient rotor set. On a pull where you are hitting peak RPM multiple times as you row through the gears the 2.65 is building a lot less heat and taking less power to drive from the crankshaft. All good things when it comes to duration of power vs instant hit. That's a lot to digest, in the end, its your car and build and you can choose based on the available info.

We are making some big advances in intercooling technology right now. I believe that this may up-end the traditional blower selection criteria, especially when it comes to max boost vs octane. The stock cobra intercooler is so bad, and what we have developed being so much better, I think there are gains to be had all over the spectrum.

Man that’s awesome, thanks for taking the time to reply Justin. There is no doubt the 2.65 is an awesome blower. If I make this move I’ll definitely be doing the full VMP cooling system at the same time.

I want this to be a 91octane build. I’ll have a e85 tune and I’ll run it occasionally, but I hate tracking down specific gas stations and testing, worrying about what mixture of fuel is in the tank, etc. Need to just go MS3 with flex and not worry about it…. That being said I spoke m to Anthony via email a couple days ago and he said the min octane for the 2.65 was 93, are you saying it can be ran on 91?

I really do appreciate all the feedback. I’m a bit out from making this move, but it’s good to have a roadmap of where I’m going.

 

[01yellercobra]

Need to just go MS3 with flex and not worry about it….

Come to the dark side. We have cookies.

 

[JCDriller]

Come to the dark side. We have cookies.

Who does everyone use for a tuner? Install is just the plug and play unit, knock sensors, flex fuel sensor and a boost/vac reference, correct?

 

[01yellercobra]

Who does everyone use for a tuner? Install is just the plug and play unit, knock sensors, flex fuel sensor and a boost/vac reference, correct?

I think Malcolm can tune them remotely. I tune it myself. As do a couple of my friends.

I would add widebands to the list. The knock sensors and flex fuel aren't needed right away. I added mine later on. There's a port on the ECU for the vacuum/boost. I did end up switching to the MAF set up as I felt it worked better for what I do with my car.

 

[bull_dog190]

I think Malcolm can tune them remotely. I tune it myself. As do a couple of my friends.

I would add widebands to the list. The knock sensors and flex fuel aren't needed right away. I added mine later on. There's a port on the ECU for the vacuum/boost. I did end up switching to the MAF set up as I felt it worked better for what I do with my car.

I believe he doesnt tune remotely anymore.

 

[SVTXTC]

I believe he doesnt tune remotely anymore.

This is correct. He is not accepting any new remote tuning.

 

[03venomdsg]

There's a gen 2 2.3 on FB as part of a part out on the svtp page.

 

[JCDriller]

There's a gen 2 2.3 on FB as part of a part out on the svtp page.

Thanks, I reached out to him. Not sure I’m ready to buy a 2.3, but we’ll see. I need to do more research and ride in a 2.6 car.