302 Engine Build Questions - H/C/I Selection Time

[Ninety3Coupe]

That time of year is coming and Santa (the Boss Man) has a habit of being very generous this time of year. My thoughts have been all-consuming.

What is the next step for the Coupe? I must mod.

I have narrowed it down to probably doing a power production increase this year. I will spare all the details, but I am leaning towards a very nice H/C/I set-up, and I could use some help.

Of utmost importance is the fact I live in California and I want to remain street legal.

I want to go with AFR heads, and after that my choices are open. I finally have my high school dream car (at 36 years of age) and I plan on doing this right and keeping this car. That being said, a 347 is something I will do eventually, but am holding off until after the H/C/I.

What size AFR's can I get away with for the 302 that would transfer over nicely to a 347 when the time comes? I would like the biggest valves possible without bending one. What cam is the "hot ticket" while remaining Ca legal? Intake manifold and T/B?

I do not drag race. I may go to the track someday, but this is my weekend car (1000 miles a week in a company owned Prius demands some fun on the weekend!). I enjoy torque, not necessarily top end power. A blower is also in the cards down the road. I do not mind suffering power loss now for future gains.

The car has a T5 (I'm 36 and granny shift - again, no racing), 3.73's in the back, Bassani Equal Length Ceramic Coated Headers and that's about it.

Thanks all for any and all input. I want to do this once and I want it to be right. If I could stay under $3000 I would be happy, but I can deal with a bit over.

 

[DT_C03RA]

op:

 

[FISHTAIL]

I wouldn't go larger than a 185 on the heads. A 185 will work nicely for a stroker setup, and will be a bit big on the 306 probably. A 165 head would be better there, but if you plan on upgrading later, might as well sacrifice a little power now in the spirit of saving money later.

There are several pretty good intake manifolds out. My favorite is the Holley systemax, even though I myself run a trick flow (also a good manifold). Those would be my top two choices.

I can't help you on the camshaft. I had mine custom ground for my combo, and lost my cam card years ago...so I couldn't tell you what the specs were on the thing if I had to. Having said that, a custom grind would be the way to go, just find a reputable builder to cut one for you, tailored to your setup.

One last thing. Be careful when you order your AFR heads. I had originally intended to stay emissions legal with my car also, but accidently ordered the set of AFR's that were NOT tapped for emissions. Thankfully, my build took me a couple of years longer than I anticipated and now I'm setup to be eligible for historic tags (read, no emissions) after the 1st of the year. You probably won't be so lucky. Make sure you order the correct part number.

 

[Ninety3Coupe]

Very good info FISH, I thank you.

It's funny how I have "built" this car 10,000 times in my head over the 20 years I have wanted this car. I mean, I just KNEW what I wanted and now that I have it and I am coughing up some cash I am questioning everything...

I would not have guessed the Holley intake. I have read many reviews over all the years in various Mustang mags and now that the time has come I can't remember what usually came out on top. And having not had the car I never paid attention to which cams where the way to go.

Thanks for the heads up about the right part numbers on the AFR's. I have a feeling I will just be making a call to American Muscle and asking them what they recommend and explain my wants. Those guys are awesome and I know they will have some answers.

Anyone else have 2 cents for me? I really do appreciate any and all info guys.

 

[03svtcobracoupe]

185 AFR, i'll say it 1,000 times over i have had many fox body heads in hand gt40, trick flow, edlebrock, 68 hipo old school, hi ports and the the afr head is unmatched i have them on a 347 now and i ran a mid 11 on street tires easily a high ten car with a good hook up.

the car idles flawlessly , and runs better then it did stock ( Carb it ) i love mine carbd fits under the stock hood with a small mr gasket air cleaner.

 

[03svtcobracoupe]

you can see most of my build in my signature ... strongly suggest a good carb set up on a 302 over fuel injection anyday if you are planning to do a n/a set up at least . i drive mine to a car show twice a year 300 miles away and get 22mpg in a car without overdrive on that set up. Im at 3k rpms the entire way up and back . if you are doing a five speed or an aod id expect more . the eldebrock rpm air gap intake (dual pane) port matched up with the afr heads out the box is one heck of a combo

 

[mustangmanjeff]

I would go with either trickflow or afr, a nice set of ported trickflows are very nice on a 5.0 I have a pair on my and very happy with how it runs,or You can go with a nice of out of the box afr 165 or 185 heads.

 

[Ninety3Coupe]

Great info folks, and keep it coming!

I will be staying FI as a carb and the "People's Republic of California" are not on speaking terms. In other words I would have some real issues with smog here. It would be nice, but not worth the hassles at smog time.

And speaking of which, anyone have input for a cam for this setup? The cam is the only thing I figure I can just replace with the new block and rotating assembly when that time comes. I want to reuse the heads and intake when I eventually build the bottom end, but I can swap the cam then.

So what cam is CA smog legal? And does anyone have input for an intake that is torque biased?

Also, I am looking for a shop in the So Cal area that is "Mustang-centric" and capable of doing the swap for me. With working 60-80 hours a week I just don't have the time or facilities to do it myself. I live near Anaheim - Anyone have a recommendation?

Thanks again all, you guys rock.

 

[03svtcobracoupe]

i am not sure which cam is legal i have a horward custom grind cam in mine . the cam is what will make power on that car so get the best you can ! any car will a 302 and those heads will fly but the cam is what makes the build. mine is like a .602 lift don't remember the duration but it wouldn't be smog legal.


if you must stay efi the cobra intake will make the most low end hmph and torque the holley is more of the rpm pulling intake. let me find this old aritcle on 5.0 mag comparing the intakes for you ..... give me a few

 

[03svtcobracoupe]

this isn't the intake one but one good one Engine Displacement Comparison 306 & 347 - 5.0 Mustang & Super Fords Magazine

then here is the intake comparison a good article Mustang Street/Strip Intake Test - 5.0 Engine Intake Manifolds - 5.0 Mustang & Super Fords Magazine


i had the holley and always wanted a trick flow one because the trick flow black powercoated one looks a whole lot better and two it made more power

 

[03svtcobracoupe]

So what cam is CA smog legal? And does anyone have input for an intake that is torque biased?


.

i think the trick flow would do you justice as you see the holley doesn't keep up with the other choices and is compared to the bbk and gt40 junkyard style intake.

plus black intake, black valve covers = :thumbsup:

 

[Ninety3Coupe]

Great articles and exactly what I was looking for. Awesome find sir, thank you. Well, now I really have no idea what the hell I want to buy! I suppose too many choices is a blessing.

I have always had a thing for the GT40 intake. It just looks so bad-ass. I know it gives up some power, I wonder what a supercharger would do to even things out with one...?

I guess I have the info I need to make a decision on the intake now. The only thing left is the cam and a shop to do it. Anyone else have 2 cents for me?

 

[DRCjasper]

Some interesting info in this thread gents. Keep it coming. Ninety3coupe, you and I seem to have similar plans but for different purposes. I'm building mine as street friendly ride but intended for the strip. I was thinking of going with a blown 347 using twisted wedge heads and the trickflow intake.

Anyone have opinions on the AFR heads Vs twisted wedge?

 

[carrew]

Here you go quit the guessing game and go with one stop shopping

http://www.flowtechinduction.com/

Ed Curtis can sell you the heads, intake, and custom ground cam to what you want to do with it.

 

[03svtcobracoupe]

Great articles and exactly what I was looking for. Awesome find sir, thank you. Well, now I really have no idea what the hell I want to buy! I suppose too many choices is a blessing.

I have always had a thing for the GT40 intake. It just looks so bad-ass. I know it gives up some power, I wonder what a supercharger would do to even things out with one...?

I guess I have the info I need to make a decision on the intake now. The only thing left is the cam and a shop to do it. Anyone else have 2 cents for me?

the gt40 tubular looks sweet yes but performs the same as the cobra and will run you about 400-500 normally i believe a trick flow is like 400ish boost would be nice even 5-10psi wakes up a fox and could make up for the lack of cam options due to emissions a good ford racing b cam and about 8lbs of boost would be a fun car

 

[Ninety3Coupe]

I hate to say it, but some of the deals on almost new / new superchargers on craigslist have been pretty tempting too. I am just concerned about popping the stock engine with boost. Anyone have an idea what a stock hypereutectic piston'd engine will take for boost without coming apart?

 

[03svtcobracoupe]

it will DEFF blow eventually lol... the 89 older motors have trw pistons stock and will hold a lot more normally... as long as nothing else gets torn up i would boost like a low psi let it blow then rebuild . who knows could last for a month could last a few years ...

we had a stock blow 302 with edlecrap heads an a 76mm turbo go high 10s it lasted 6 month with the guy driving it HARD and daily.

 

[Ninety3Coupe]

Good Lord, Changed my mind again. I think I will be getting a Vortech S Trim kit and just S/C the thing for now.

Someone let me know if they know of a good used kit available, I'd appreciate it!

Thanks all.

 

[racerbox77]

Ok, I've read thru this thread and I have to tell you that if your going to, in the future, run a supercharger or a turbo you want to go BIG on the head port volumes. I would go with a 205 at least and either have them professionally ported or buy them extruded. The larger the port volume the more power you will make (obviously it has to be a well designed head such as Trick Flow/ AFR). AND contrary to popular belief you will NOT lose power down low. If your serious about this please give my Dad a call you can find the number on our website www.boxperformance.com
If you don't believe me I know either MM&FF or 5.0 mag did a test on head port volumes. They found that there is not a too much in terms of port volume.

 

[Freedom]

I ran a BBK SSI on my 347, very impressive intake, but a bit pricier than others.