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450hp cam only ls1

Discussion in 'Road Kill Drive-Thru' started by 03venum, Nov 15, 2006.

  1. 03venum

    03venum Never enough HP Established Member

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    has anyone seen or heard of a ls1 with a cam only making 450 i have this kid pestering the hell out of me saying his friend has a cam only car that makes 450 and and that most heads and cam and exaust ls1s are makeing 430 to 470 to the tires i have never seen that kind of power form that only but has anyone else the heads and cam cars with exaust i have seen are making 380hp give or take alittle what do u guys think I wish i could run them to find out.

    his post=
    you're a stupid ****. people make 400whp with cam only motors. hell, people do 450 wheel hp with cam only (trex). just stfu now.The above dyno graph is from a 1998 Camaro SS (6 speed) with Thunder Racing's 99-224/224-112 Camshaft, GTP/Thunder Racing Stage 2 Cylinder Heads. The car has a full compliment of bolt-on modifications, including Whisper Air Induction, Thunder Racing ported throttle body, Grotyohann long-tube headers w/ 3" y-pipe, Borla cat-back exhaust (no plate, ) ASP Pulley and Royal Purple Synthetic Lubricants. The car also has a Moser 12 bolt rear end with 4.10 gears. the graph shows 451hp and 406 tq
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2006
  2. baldNittos04

    baldNittos04 New Member Established Member

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    hes right...

    mid siz cams 230's duration with .575+ lift can make well over 400 with stock heads.

    I remember Thunder posting a dyno graph with a 242 sized cam .600+ lift making 450whp on stock heads. I dont think they used it, but an Electric water pump and a short belt can free up a lot of HP.

    Many cars are running the fast 90/90 on stock heads w/ a "large" cam making those numbers
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2006
  3. Prey4Me

    Prey4Me Another H&C LS1 Established Member

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    450whp with cam only is just a little steep, they are usually somewhere closer to 400whp. Heads & cam LS1's can be anywhere from 390whp to 500whp, its all in the combo, but generally somewhere around 450whp. My car made 448whp with a small cam, with a bigger cam I could pull some higher numbers. It seems that everyone has a friend that makes more power than everybody else.
     
  4. darby

    darby Cheaters Inc Established Member

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    my buddy has a tsp reverse split cam only making 400rwhp,only other mods true duals,I think its pushing it...but it is reachable....

    could it really be done?sure
    is he just talking trash?prob
    the cam and tune is where the powers at,much more than the heads.
     
  5. QuikGT

    QuikGT Banned

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    ^^^true....one of my best friends put down 440/420 with that trex cam....and that was with a fast78....

    edit...if u race him and hes a good driver hell probably get you through the quarter unless your good for high tens...
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2006
  6. 03venum

    03venum Never enough HP Established Member

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    what kind of power does this look like it would be on motor

    Engine Info:

    Aluminum LS1 block

    3.622" Stroke Crank
    Eagle 6.125 H beam Rods
    Manley 3.905" pistons w/ 2cc valve reliefs
    831 center bolt heads ported w/ 2.055 int & 1.60 exh valves, milled .020
    Kaetech ported oil pump
    Cloyes Torrington bearing timing set
    Comp Cams custom grind N2O cam .622/.622 258/270 @ .050
    Comp "R" Roller lifters

    Stock 7.4" pushrods

    Stock 1.7 Roller Rockers
    Wiend Intake
    SVO 42# green top injectors
    BBK 80mm Throttle body
    Ported MAF
    SLP lid
    K&N filter
    ARP bolts holding it all together
    255LPH fuel pump

    Stock ignition coils
    Accel Wires
    Autolite 2 heat range colder plugs
    SFI flexplate
    SFI 10% underdrive balancer
    TBody coolant bypass
    Tuning with HP Tuners
    Cold Fusion N20 Kit
    Edelbrock N20 kit
    Delay box

    Suspension Mods:
    BMR Strut Tower Brace
    Energy Suspension sway bad end links
    Prothene Front suspension bushings
    KYB AGX struts
    QA1 275# drag springs
    KYB shocks
    Intrax 2" rear drop springs

    BMR driveshaft loop


    Transmission Info:

    4L60E

    PTC Race 9" converter 4K stall
    Beast sunshell
    High rev pump kit
    Extra wide Kevlar Band
    Trans Go Shift Kit
    Computer tuned: shift points, pressures, torque management removed

    Exhaust Mods:
    Pacesetter Long Tube headers w/o ERG and AIR
    Custom 3" true dual exhaust w/ xpipe and Hedmann glasspacks and dumps
    Corvette O2 sensors
    Rear O2 deleted
    EGR deleted
    AIR deleted
    LC-1 wide band on its way

    Apperance Mods:
    17" black ZR1 wheels 275 / 315
    96 and earlier tail lights
    Salad shooters w/ MT ET Streets 26 x 11.5 x 16
    Spare Tire N2O mount
    Second fog light switch for N2O

    Gauges:
    Dual gauge pillar
    Auto Meter Tans Temp
    Auto Meter A/F
    Summit Racing liquid filled fuel pressure gauge
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2006
  7. ChiSVT

    ChiSVT Currently SVTless Established Member

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    You listed a heads/cam car above..The dyno numbers through that auto really wouldn't be saying much..It could dyno 400rwhp and still run 10's all day.

    It's possible for a cam only car to hit 450whp, but dyno numbers can always be manipulated. My cam only ws.6 put down just under 400rwhp and ran a [email protected] on nittos. I had a mild cam, (224/228 .581"/.588" 114LSA) LS6 mani, mid-lengths, and bolt-ons. With a larger cam and a 90/90 or similar 420+ sounds reasonable.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2006
  8. darby

    darby Cheaters Inc Established Member

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    love mustangs but i love my ls1 too...

    head and cam ls1's love nitrous...I went from 420rwhp to 525rwhp on a 75dry shot.....and thats still without a tune,would really like to see what a tune and 150 wet shot gets me.
     
  9. Orr89rocz

    Orr89rocz WTF Established Member

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    never seen a ls1 cam with that high duration unless thats advertised duration and not at the .050" lift

    sounds like that cam is pretty big tho. depends on how ported the heads are i can see it making up over 400whp. most mild cams with heads make 400whp or so.

    and yes the most hp for a cam only car (which has supporting external bolt ons but stock heads) i have heard was 450whp. T-rex i believe

    the fastest "cam only" cars run T-Rex cams or another cam thats very close to same specs. its a very big cam...all topend, pulls to 7K rpms
     
  10. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton I just like cars!!! Established Member

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    In short YES it's true. Although 450rwhp from cam only is a SERIOUS cam and on the verge of not being streetable for most.

    But 400rwhp is quite common cam only. And bigger numbers for h/c setups. TSP MS4 cam and Terminator heads with usual supporting mods made 485rwhp on pump. This is considered by most to be budget heads.

    However, there is a catch. Dyno numbers are hardly accurate and should never be directly compared. Example:

    Dyno type, this has a major affect on HP numbers although the car engine is just as powerful. This is how the numbers are derived and generated. Most Dynojets are interia dyno's which use a static drag weight. These are the most common dyno in the US. And they will generally give comparitivly high dyno numbers compared to manufacturer claimed numbers. Hence everyone is always convinced ALL Termintors, Mach 1's and even PI GT's are underatted. They are NOT. Well not by the numbers people claim.

    Example - 450rwhp Dynojet is about the same as 420rwhp on a Mustang Dyno.

    Mustang Dyno's are load bearing dyno's and thusly more accuratley respresent manufacturer claimed SAE Net figures.

    And it is primarly this reason that ALL cars seem to have a 20-25rwhp variance as a general rwhp number when people ask what should my car make stock. It's all down to dyno types.

    Then we move onto correction factors. STD and SAE. This can easily influence the numbers by another 20rwhp in some circumstances. STD will give the HP the car is making at that precise moment. So hot weather will be lower STD HP and cold weather higher STD HP.

    Even 1 hour later can dramitically affect STD numbers which means they are pretty pointless for comparisons sake. Only a few degrees difference in ambient tempt or engine temp can make a whole difference.

    SAE this "should" mean that the HP numbers have been corrected to a set standard, there is more than one standard out there, but in general terms it removes the variation as found by using STD numbers.

    So the same car may dyno 2 days apart and produce 20rwhp variance in STD but once corrected to SAE there may be as little as 0.5rwhp variance.

    So when used correctly SAE numbers will not care if its freezing outside or 90 degrees, it will return an almost identical HP number for both situations. Sadly this can be used to cheat the system though and when used incorrectly can dramatically affect the numbers.

    Lastly is a thing called graph smoothing. If there is a lack of graph smoothing the PEAK numbers will be calculated from "false" spikes in the graph. This can lead quite easily to 5-20rwhp too high results.

    So in total it is theoretically possible to have 60rwhp too high from a dyno!!!!


    But the above allpies to all dyno numbers. So if you yourself dyno'd on a Dynojet it's certainly food for thought.

    If you want to see more info on what LS1's can acheive n/a go to www.ls1tech.com and have a look in the Dyno forum and the internal engine forum.
     
  11. baldNittos04

    baldNittos04 New Member Established Member

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    do you know what C/R he is running or what the heads flow? that looks like a very aggressive setup. could be 500whp..

    edit: on a dynojet for 300 bhp/ton :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2006
  12. Smokinlx

    Smokinlx New Member Established Member

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    Dyno's are for tuning. After You get Your car dialed in You might as well use Your dyno graph for toilet paper cause it does'nt mean sh*t. Seriously I have lined up against car's that have dynoed outrageous #'s and they did'nt come close to performing or MPH that the dyno indicated. A better way to determine a car's potential is to take it to a 1/4 or 1/8th mile drag strip and see what MPH it will run. I laugh when people try to scare Me off with their dyno #'s.:nono:
     
  13. jbusmc1986

    jbusmc1986 Got Sig? Established Member

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    It is very possible... that is on the high end of the scale, I have seen a H/C ls1's make 512/500 with a stock shortblock.... there are a shitton of cam only cars making in the 430's with no issues at all
     
  14. jbusmc1986

    jbusmc1986 Got Sig? Established Member

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    It is very possible... that is on the high end of the scale, I have seen a H/C ls1's make 512/500 with a stock shortblock.... there are a shitton of cam only cars making in the 430's with no issues at all
     
  15. EddieHaskell

    EddieHaskell Interweb Racing Legend Established Member

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    Here ya go: [​IMG]

    The dyno above is of a 99 TransAm with stock unported cylinder heads, Thunder Racing's T-ReX v.2 camshaft, and a full package of bolt-on parts, including long tube headers, pulley, LS6 intake manifold, Whisper lid, ported throttle body. Dyno runs were on 93 octane gasoline and a factory steel flyweel. http://www.thunderracing.com/dynographs/?action=read&pgid=60

    A "cam only" fbody with that cam has gone [email protected] w/1.38 60'


    I see you live in Belmont-- a commuter at Belmont Abbey has a black Cobra...you know him?
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2006
  16. QuikGT

    QuikGT Banned

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    honestly that modlist is way out of your league for drag racing.....you'd better try him from a roll....but i still think hell get you.....ive seen full bolton 4l60e's go mid to low [email protected] are u sure thats the right specs on the cam...seems too aggressive...

    that setup should be good for at least mid to low 10s...
     
  17. EddieHaskell

    EddieHaskell Interweb Racing Legend Established Member

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    Now that I look at the mod list....built LSx, 9", 4k stall, N20 -- stay far far away lol.

    If it was just stalled and sprayed it would be a more even race on paper.
     
  18. 300bhp/ton

    300bhp/ton I just like cars!!! Established Member

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    Oh no not you :rolleyes:

    Join date May 2005 and only 81 posts. Gonna guess you just got yourself banned from another site and now need some where to post. Which one was it this time? Did they ever let you back over at Stagnet after the banned you about a year back??
     
  19. EddieHaskell

    EddieHaskell Interweb Racing Legend Established Member

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    Stangnet wouldn't let me back in - I guess they hate people that don't bow down to the Mustang :shrug:
     
  20. Tom's_03SVT

    Tom's_03SVT Well-Known Member Established Member

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    450RWHP with a 224/224 112LSA and stock ported heads is BS...

    You need a 232 or bigger stick to make that power on stock ported heads.

    Tom
     

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