6.2 v.s. 5.4

[kidlightning5]

Hey guys, might be ordering a raptor here soon is it worth it to go with the 6.2 do you guys feel. I was thinking maybe just getting the 5.4 and then in a couple of years putting some performance mods on it. Would that be better, although in a couple of years they would have performance mods out for the 6.2 probably. If you have any opinions or info it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[SOCOMech]

I think it depends on whether or not you plan to off road it. If it's more of a DD that you'll stick to pavemnet, then you'll probably be o.k with the 5.4. If you do plan on off roading, no doubt about it, 6.2 all the way. The 6.2 is noticeably different from the 5.4 on the street as well though in that you can really feel just how much easier it is for that 5800-6000lbs. to scoot along. I mean hell, mine dyno'd more to the wheels than a 5.4 makes at the crank so, it should move better right, lol? The trans. shifts alot better with the 6.2 as well, it doesn't hunt for gears as much like it does with the 5.4. I've mentione dit a few times on the forum now but, what the hell.......First Drive Review: 2010 6.2-liter V-8 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor - PickupTrucks.com News That's my very own truck in taht article but, it hits the very questions you're asking right now. If mpg is an issue, (which I hope it's not too much of one considering what you're looking at here) then the 5.4 looks to hold a slight edge. The mpg calculations (and 1/4 and 0-60 times) that we encountered in that article were products of very spirited driving and nasty wind all day....so take it for what it's worth. I've got about 1700 mi. so far and have been averaging 13-14mpg mixed. Hope this helps.

 

[SID297]

If you've got the money get the 6.2. As Howard Hughes would say, "It's the way of the future."

 

[AZ Rocky]

I'm getting the 5.4 because paying $3000 for maybe 40hp and 50 ft pounds of torque is pretty steep. Torque is the big deal, so I plan to add a SC. My slightly moded Gen2 Lightning has only 390HP, but it has close to 500 FT LBS of torque, all with a little forced air! On the dyno, it has over 400 ft lbs from 2100 RPM all the way to the rev-limiter! The 6.2 has pretty good numbers, but not good enough for my money.

Also, I drove a Gen1 Lightning for 13 years. With "only" 240HP and 340 pounds of torque, that truck was a stump puller. I figure the 5.4 Raptor has more power than my GEN1 L, and that's pretty darn good! :thumbsup:

 

[ON D BIT]

I'm getting the 5.4 because paying $3000 for maybe 40hp and 50 ft pounds of torque is pretty steep. Torque is the big deal, so I plan to add a SC. My slightly moded Gen2 Lightning has only 390HP, but it has close to 500 FT LBS of torque, all with a little forced air! On the dyno, it has over 400 ft lbs from 2100 RPM all the way to the rev-limiter! The 6.2 has pretty good numbers, but not good enough for my money.

Also, I drove a Gen1 Lightning for 13 years. With "only" 240HP and 340 pounds of torque, that truck was a stump puller. I figure the 5.4 Raptor has more power than my GEN1 L, and that's pretty darn good! :thumbsup:

Where you going to find a new blower for 3k? With headers and a tune, the numbers on the 6.2 will be awesome! Sure you might find a little more power from a 5k blower, but then where will that power be when your hot lapping your blown 5.4 in the desert/dunes of AZ?

There is no question in my mind that if you want power out of your raptor purchase the 6.2. If you have the budget a 750/800hp n/a build to a 7.5 from the 6.2 would be sweet!:burnout:

 

[duomaxwell]

that 6.2 has alot of potential, I mean 7.0l capabilty is down right awsome!

 

[AZ Rocky]

Where you going to find a new blower for 3k? With headers and a tune, the numbers on the 6.2 will be awesome! Sure you might find a little more power from a 5k blower, but then where will that power be when your hot lapping your blown 5.4 in the desert/dunes of AZ?

There is no question in my mind that if you want power out of your raptor purchase the 6.2. If you have the budget a 750/800hp n/a build to a 7.5 from the 6.2 would be sweet!:burnout:

I just think the 6.2 is not worth $3000. I could very well be wrong, but I base my opinion on the demonstrated outstanding performance of the 5.4 Raptor, my experience with other high-performance trucks and the after-market support of the 5.4 3V.

I'm not sure what you mean when you ask where the power will be in the hot AZ dirt. My 1999 Lightning (all most stock) runs in the mid 14's even when it's 110 degrees (at mid night)! Beside, if you hit the dirt here in heat of summer, you don't need more HP as much as you need a big cooler full of frosty beverages and kick-butt A/C!oke:

I think SVT should have just blown the 5.4L right off the bat and called it standard equipment. The HP would be about the same as the 6.2, and the torque curve would have been flat with over 400 ft-lb at every engine speed.

Anyway, if you and your 6.2 smoke me in the dunes, I'll buy you a beer and act appropriately humble! :beer:

 

[steeltoe]

My 5.4 doesn't hunt for gears. Maybe that was the tester that they had but mine doesn't do that.

 

[SID297]

I just think the 6.2 is not worth $3000. I could very well be wrong, but I base my opinion on the demonstrated outstanding performance of the 5.4 Raptor, my experience with other high-performance trucks and the after-market support of the 5.4 3V.

I'm not sure what you mean when you ask where the power will be in the hot AZ dirt. My 1999 Lightning (all most stock) runs in the mid 14's even when it's 110 degrees (at mid night)! Beside, if you hit the dirt here in heat of summer, you don't need more HP as much as you need a big cooler full of frosty beverages and kick-butt A/C!oke:

I think SVT should have just blown the 5.4L right off the bat and called it standard equipment. The HP would be about the same as the 6.2, and the torque curve would have been flat with over 400 ft-lb at every engine speed.

Anyway, if you and your 6.2 smoke me in the dunes, I'll buy you a beer and act appropriately humble! :beer:

Anything the 5.4 can do, the 6.2 will do it better. But like you said, the aftermarket is already there for the 5.4. However, with cams, intake, exhaust, and a tune on a 6.2 you will make pretty much as much power as a blown 5.4 can take on a stock bottom end.

 

[ON D BIT]

I'm not sure what you mean when you ask where the power will be in the hot AZ dirt. My 1999 Lightning (all most stock) runs in the mid 14's even when it's 110 degrees (at mid night)!

Its called heat soak. When you run a blown motor in hot weather for longer than a minute you will be making less power than in normal conditions. Yes vehicles have been known to lose 40 even 50 horsepower at the rear wheels in these conditions with a good blower/intercooler set up.

You will not see a drastic loss in power on a n/a set up. For 4k(6.2 option, and tune, intake exhaust) you will make approximately the same power as with the 5k blower/intercooler setup on the 5.4. You should see more torque on the blown 5.4 though. However once heat soak sets in the blown 5.4 will be making much less power and torque than the 6.2 in the same conditions.

If you want power for more than 1 pass go 6.2!:rockon:

 

[AZ Rocky]

Its called heat soak.

Heat soak is really a drag racing problem that happens after shut-down. keep the air flowing over the intercooler and the water pumps pumping, and heat soak is a none issue. NA motors suffer in high temp air due to lower O2 density. Forced induction motors are less affected by changing ambient air densities. A good intercooler set up is the key.

I had a Magnum R/T 5.7 and it was far, far more impacted by air temp than any turbo or SC vehicle I have owned. I currently have two very different forced induction cars; the Lighting and a Jetta TDI. Both perform just fine in the most extreme heat the Phoenix Valley can dish out.:fm:

 

[SID297]

Heat soak is really a drag racing problem that happens after shut-down. keep the air flowing over the intercooler and the water pumps pumping, and heat soak is a none issue. NA motors suffer in high temp air due to lower O2 density. Forced induction motors are less affected by changing ambient air densities. A good intercooler set up is the key.

I had a Magnum R/T 5.7 and it was far, far more impacted by air temp than any turbo or SC vehicle I have owned. I currently have two very different forced induction cars; the Lighting and a Jetta TDI. Both perform just fine in the most extreme heat the Phoenix Valley can dish out.:fm:

Heat soak would most definitely be an issue. The IATs would climb very quickly because the intercooler is not going to be able to keep up. Make about 5 successive runs on a dyno and watch the IATs increase while the HP numbers decrease.

 

[AZ Rocky]

Heat soak would most definitely be an issue. The IATs would climb very quickly because the intercooler is not going to be able to keep up. Make about 5 successive runs on a dyno and watch the IATs increase while the HP numbers decrease.

2 things: 1) I live here and race here so I know what it takes to run in these conditions. 2) Dyno pulls have nothing in common with driving in the desert or anywhere else. Dyno pulls are very hard on engines because you beat the crap out of them for a min or two, then shut it down and let it stew in its own heat.

I have run pass after pass on the 1/4 mile in he heat and I may a little slower than I would be on a dry winter day at sea level, but my temp Gage stays right were it's suposed to be.

 

[SID297]

2 things: 1) I live here and race here so I know what it takes to run in these conditions. 2) Dyno pulls have nothing in common with driving in the desert or anywhere else. Dyno pulls are very hard on engines because you beat the crap out of them for a min or two, then shut it down and let it stew in its own heat.

I have run pass after pass on the 1/4 mile in he heat and I may a little slower than I would be on a dry winter day at sea level, but my temp Gage stays right were it's suposed to be.

Read what I said again. Notice the key word "successive", as in back to back with no cool down. That would be similar to the type of performance driving the Raptor was built to do. One five minute session of spirited driving off road in the AZ heat would have a S/C 5.4 pulling a lot of timing and dropping off in power. There's a reason you rarely see S/C engines used in such applications. A big power N/A engine is the logical choice for that type of driving.

 

[ON D BIT]

Heat soak is really a drag racing problem that happens after shut-down. keep the air flowing over the intercooler and the water pumps pumping, and heat soak is a none issue. NA motors suffer in high temp air due to lower O2 density. Forced induction motors are less affected by changing ambient air densities. A good intercooler set up is the key.

A good intercooler set up does help, however is above and beyond the price of the stock intercooler sold with most blowers. Now your kit has jumped from 5k to 7k+.

As Sid has already stated, road racers know all to well the disastrous effects of heat on a blown motor. Within 5 minutes of track time timing is being pulled and power is being negatively restricted. This is why most race cars are n/a or run a turbo. The blower is not effective for long term(10 minutes plus) racing in the heat.

Having said that, a blown 5.4 would be fine for around town and weekend jaunts to the strip. Run hard in the desert/dunes and you will be disappointed.

 

[AZ Rocky]

Read what I said again. Notice the key word "successive", as in back to back with no cool down. That would be similar to the type of performance driving the Raptor was built to do. One five minute session of spirited driving off road in the AZ heat would have a S/C 5.4 pulling a lot of timing and dropping off in power. There's a reason you rarely see S/C engines used in such applications. A big power N/A engine is the logical choice for that type of driving.

You’re killing me. I drive a Super Charged truck. No, Dude...Honestly,... I really do...in Arizona....where it's really stupid hot! I drive fast, (really fast :-D) and I drive slow and I drive fully loaded....and I drive with my 20' bass boat hitched to it and I drive it in PHX stop and go traffic (in Aug). :mj: I drive it forward and reverse.....I drive it to work, and some times work is down a dirt road. I drove it from VA to AZ with a full load in the bed and a heavy trailer behind. 120F, 10F, 10,000 feet above sea level, along the beach, drag racing, mile after mile at 100+MPH, (thank you Valentine 1) and I have NEVER had a problem with it in 90K miles! You can bench race this all you like, but I live it and have for a long time now.oke:

All I want is 450 ft lbs of torque so I can get 3 tons of BA Ford in motion and I want it all the time, not just in some narrow RPM range were is falls off about the time I really could use it…….is that too much to ask?:shrug:

:idea::idea::idea:Hey, now that I think about it, maybe I won’t SC the Raptor after all…... Maybe I’ll just drop in a set 4.56 or 4.88 gears and call it good enough. Now that would be $3000 well spent! :burnout:

 

[ON D BIT]

We never said the blown 5.4 will not have power. It will! Just trying to make 2 statements.

A blown app will lose a lot of power in heat over a small continues duration of time.
I believe the n/a 6.2 will give you more power while driving in heat than the blown 5.4. In normal driving the blown 5.4 will have more power than a tuned 6.2.

 

[04SolidSnake]

I think it depends on whether or not you plan to off road it. If it's more of a DD that you'll stick to pavemnet, then you'll probably be o.k with the 5.4. If you do plan on off roading, no doubt about it, 6.2 all the way. The 6.2 is noticeably different from the 5.4 on the street as well though in that you can really feel just how much easier it is for that 5800-6000lbs. to scoot along. I mean hell, mine dyno'd more to the wheels than a 5.4 makes at the crank so, it should move better right, lol? The trans. shifts alot better with the 6.2 as well, it doesn't hunt for gears as much like it does with the 5.4. I've mentione dit a few times on the forum now but, what the hell.......First Drive Review: 2010 6.2-liter V-8 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor - PickupTrucks.com News That's my very own truck in taht article but, it hits the very questions you're asking right now. If mpg is an issue, (which I hope it's not too much of one considering what you're looking at here) then the 5.4 looks to hold a slight edge. The mpg calculations (and 1/4 and 0-60 times) that we encountered in that article were products of very spirited driving and nasty wind all day....so take it for what it's worth. I've got about 1700 mi. so far and have been averaging 13-14mpg mixed. Hope this helps.

Ok I know you love your 6.2 and all, but if you plan to go offroading you *need* the 6.2? False. The tranny shifts better with the 6.2? False. Early Raptors can get a trans program update that solves the hunting problems. That has nothing to do with which engine you have, it is a software issue.

Unless you are hill climbing, or outright racing, the 5.4 will work just fine for recreational offroading. I know mine does. For everyone saying you can make a 7.0+L out of the 6.2 casting.. While that may be true, but how many of you are going to take your brand new 40K truck, and pull the motor out for a build right off the hop?

I think for the extra cash that the 6.2 is right now, it's not really worth it in the end. Once/if they adjust the pricing once the 6.2 is the only engine offered, then it'll be a much better deal.

Lets not forget the 5.4L tune is soft as hell from the factory, so the 5.4 "rating" is very understated.. The 5.4 can perform very nicely for little investment in modifications.

 

[04SolidSnake]

2 things: 1) I live here and race here so I know what it takes to run in these conditions. 2) Dyno pulls have nothing in common with driving in the desert or anywhere else. Dyno pulls are very hard on engines because you beat the crap out of them for a min or two, then shut it down and let it stew in its own heat.

I have run pass after pass on the 1/4 mile in he heat and I may a little slower than I would be on a dry winter day at sea level, but my temp Gage stays right were it's suposed to be.

You aren't right here my friend. I think you are mistaking heat soaking the engine, with heat soaking the blower. Heak soak will definately be an issue. No heat exchanger is 100% efficient. It are those ineffciencies that lead to heat soak. Running balls out in the desert is going to heat soak just as badly as a dyno pull.. Since you heat exchanger is not 100% efficient, it cannot pull all of the heat out of the water flowing through the heat exchanger.. This cycle over and over again will cause IAT2 to climb, and it will rob you of power. Further to this, ambient temperature will also affect not only IAT, but also IAT2s since your heat exchanger is only going to cool the intercooler fluid to ambient at best.

The only way heat soak can be taken out of the equation would be to have a heat exchange system which can pull the IC fluid temperatures down to below ambient temperature like the Killer Chiller systems which use the vehicles air conditioning system to super cool the intercooler system coolant. This allows water temperatures to fall below ambient temperature, and thus will prevent heat soaking the blower.

 

[SOCOMech]

Ok I know you love your 6.2 and all, but if you plan to go offroading you *need* the 6.2? False. The tranny shifts better with the 6.2? False. Early Raptors can get a trans program update that solves the hunting problems. That has nothing to do with which engine you have, it is a software issue.

I do love my 6.2 and I'm sure you love your 5.4 but, you *need* to show me where I said, "you *need* a 6.2". I only gave my opinion based on my experience and the experience of some very well informed others. I'm not the only one to say there's a noticeable difference between the two engines off road....in certain environments. If you've ever gone on either of the Raptor specific forums, you'd know that the trans. issue on the 5.4 is not an update, there are currently no updates for the 6r80 in the Raptor. What it is, is the tech. going in and resetting the trans. adaptive shift strategy tables. However, that could be considered just a band-aid because after a while, it will just re-learn you're driving habits. This is why there are good amount of people that say they don't have the problem....different people have different driving habits. There's a reason the 6.2 trucks don't need this.

Unless you are hill climbing, or outright racing, the 5.4 will work just fine for recreational offroading. I know mine does. For everyone saying you can make a 7.0+L out of the 6.2 casting.. While that may be true, but how many of you are going to take your brand new 40K truck, and pull the motor out for a build right off the hop?

Agreed, the 5.4 is more than capable of recreational off roading and providing a mile of smiles. However, almost 100 (give or take, over or under) more hp at the wheels and considerably more tq, there's no denying that a 6.2 will allow for some more spirited driving and less worry of bogging down. 5.4 more than capable? Without a doubt. 6.2 needed? No........but well worth it in many people's eyes, people who have experienced both. The 5.4 vs. 6.2 power debate has been beaten to death. It's cool there's so much potential in the 6.2 but, some of it is not needed to alot of us. The Raptor R's had just over 500/500 with the usual 3 mod of intake, exhaust (custom long tubes and such) and tune, but also had a ported TB, slightly ported heads and cams. Motor Trend recently mentioned a bump in compression but, Greg Foutz never said anything about that and they didn't mention it in 'Born in Baja' when talking about what they did so, who knows. Probably alot of money right there but then again, it's also more money than most want to admit to get a 5.4 to those levels. I run my truck out in the desert, I don't want a blower....for reasons discussed earlier in this very thread.

I think for the extra cash that the 6.2 is right now, it's not really worth it in the end. Once/if they adjust the pricing once the 6.2 is the only engine offered, then it'll be a much better deal.

Lets not forget the 5.4L tune is soft as hell from the factory, so the 5.4 "rating" is very understated.. The 5.4 can perform very nicely for little investment in modifications.

I will also agree with you in that the price for the 6.2 does seem a bit steep, but then again, that extra money got me an extra 100 hp to the wheels under the warranty......so now it actually starts to sound like a good deal.