93 Cobra hesitation, misfire, backfiring, etc.

93_SVT_Cobra

New Member
Established Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
28
Location
Florida
Hello everyone, I've posted a similar thread here before and now, I'm hoping to get some more needed advice and help.

I have a '93 Cobra with 78k miles on it and it has been giving me a good deal of grief the past year or so. I've owned the car for many years now, and before I've owned two other fox bodies. This Cobra has stock internals, stock GT-40 heads, stock Cobra intake, stock TB and MAF (which has been replaced with a stock replacement calibrated for the stock 24# injectors). It does have BBK 1 5/8 shorty headers, Off Road X pipe, Flowmaster two chambers and stock tips. So far I've replaced the fuel pump, fuel filter, Throttle position sensor, EGR Valve/Position sensor, Idle Air control, Throttle air bypass, MAF, Engine Coolant Temp Sensor, Intake Air Temp Sensor, replaced all vacuum hoses, battery, radiator, air filter (K&N conical), spark plugs, ign. coil, plug wires, cap and rotor. I have also cleaned the injectors individually, replaced the o rings, and it has recently had an oil change. The timing is set at 10 deg BTC as standard.

Bottom line, the car runs absolutely fine at idle. It seems to be a good even idle at 900 RPM. I've ran the KOER, KOEO, and the cylinder balance test. On KOEO, code 34 is the only one that flashes.

Code 34 - EGR Valve Position sensor pressure feedback EGR Voltage above closed limit;

On KOER I get codes 12, and 21;

12 - RPM not withing self test lower limit DC motor did not move , Idle speed control motor or air bypass not controlling idle properly.

21- Engine coolant temp sensor out of self test range.

With the Cylinder Balance test, all cylinders passed.

Okay, so it idles fine and you can rev it in idle just fine. The problem occurs when you are driving. In first gear, it seems to respond at 1/4-1/2 throttle, but anything past that and it hesitates and acts somewhat like it has hit a rev limiter. In second, it pulls to about 3500 and seems like it has hit a rev limiter. It seems like it is starving for fuel, but why would it rev at idle if it is starving for fuel. So, in better words, it will not handle anything over half throttle under load. Not every time, but some of the time, it will back fire in the lower gears under moderate acceleration. It also smells of unburned fuel, so it seems to be running a bit rich.

Any advice to this would be greatly appreciated, so thank you all in advance!
 

93Cobra#2771

SVT God
Established Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
4,881
Location
Driving the Cobra
KOER 12 - sounds like you need to pull your idle air control (IAC) valve and give it a good cleaning. Carb cleaner works great.

Regarding your problems - revving at idle is a lot different that running a motor with load. First thing I would do is confirm fuel pressure at the rail while under load.

Second, I would verify the MAF is correct. Make note that the MAF IS NOT calibrated for 24# injectors (24# injectors calibration is built into the EEC). If it's an OEM MAF, then you are fine. If you got an aftermarket calibrated for 24# injectors, then you need to revisit the MAF. Parts stores sometimes list the same MAF for 5.0's and cobras, which is not correct.

1. Do you have a cold air kit on the car?
2. If so, does it have an oiled air filter?
3. DOUBLE CHECK for vacuum leaks. Replacing as many things as you have, you could have missed a connection.
4. EGR - you need to verify the EGR isn't hung open. If it is, it will provide a huge vacuum leak.
5. Disconnect the battery for an hour, then hook back up and take it down the road. Are the problems still there?

Report back on each of my points above, and number your answers as I numbered the questions. :)
 

buddha93

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2002
Messages
2,636
Location
St. Louis
Second, I would verify the MAF is correct. Make note that the MAF IS NOT calibrated for 24# injectors (24# injectors calibration is built into the EEC). If it's an OEM MAF, then you are fine. If you got an aftermarket calibrated for 24# injectors, then you need to revisit the MAF. Parts stores sometimes list the same MAF for 5.0's and cobras, which is not correct.

Was thinking along the same lines. Do you have the facory EEC in place?

Another place to look is your grounds, specifcally the one on the firewall to the intake. This grounds the wiring harness up top.

Look at the TFI module also.

Ignore the codes to some extent, as they can throw all sorts of goofy things when something is amiss.
 
Last edited:

93_SVT_Cobra

New Member
Established Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
28
Location
Florida
KOER 12 - sounds like you need to pull your idle air control (IAC) valve and give it a good cleaning. Carb cleaner works great.

Regarding your problems - revving at idle is a lot different that running a motor with load. First thing I would do is confirm fuel pressure at the rail while under load.

Second, I would verify the MAF is correct. Make note that the MAF IS NOT calibrated for 24# injectors (24# injectors calibration is built into the EEC). If it's an OEM MAF, then you are fine. If you got an aftermarket calibrated for 24# injectors, then you need to revisit the MAF. Parts stores sometimes list the same MAF for 5.0's and cobras, which is not correct.

1. Do you have a cold air kit on the car?
2. If so, does it have an oiled air filter?
3. DOUBLE CHECK for vacuum leaks. Replacing as many things as you have, you could have missed a connection.
4. EGR - you need to verify the EGR isn't hung open. If it is, it will provide a huge vacuum leak.
5. Disconnect the battery for an hour, then hook back up and take it down the road. Are the problems still there?

Report back on each of my points above, and number your answers as I numbered the questions. :)

Thank you very much for the advice. I appreciate your taking the time to respond to my issues. To answer all of your questions:
1. I have a conical K&N filter, which is situated directly in front of the MAF under the hood. The filter is not in an enclosure.
2. It is an oiled filter.
3. Looked at all of the vacuum lines/tree and everything seems to be properly placed and routed correctly according to the manufacturer's diagram.
4. How would I verify that the EGR is not hung open. I did take it off and push on the plunger and it seemed to move freely.
5. Reset the ECU as directed, and ran it down the road. Same issues, it just pulls to about 3/4 throttle. As soon as it is above 2000 RPM it just hangs there like it has hit a rev limiter.

Any additional thoughts? Thank you, again!
 

93_SVT_Cobra

New Member
Established Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
28
Location
Florida
Was thinking along the same lines. Do you have the facory EEC in place?

Another place to look is your grounds, specifcally the one on the firewall to the intake. This grounds the wiring harness up top.

Look at the TFI module also.

Ignore the codes to some extent, as they can throw all sorts of goofy things when something is amiss.

Thank you for your advice and reply! The factory EEC is in place. I will definitely take a look at the ground up there.

Regarding the TFI, does this seems like it could be ignition? I've always been told that the TFI either works or not. Is that true? Is there any way to accurately test the TFI without replacing it? I know they are pretty inexpensive, I'm just tired of throwing parts at it...

Also, is it possible that it could be a bad, new fuel pump? I installed a 190 gph pump, replacing an inoperable one last year. I haven't checked the fuel pressure at idle or on the road, and intend to do so this weekend. What should the fuel pressure be at idle, and under load?
 

buddha93

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2002
Messages
2,636
Location
St. Louis
Thank you for your advice and reply! The factory EEC is in place. I will definitely take a look at the ground up there.

Regarding the TFI, does this seems like it could be ignition? I've always been told that the TFI either works or not. Is that true? Is there any way to accurately test the TFI without replacing it? I know they are pretty inexpensive, I'm just tired of throwing parts at it...

Also, is it possible that it could be a bad, new fuel pump? I installed a 190 gph pump, replacing an inoperable one last year. I haven't checked the fuel pressure at idle or on the road, and intend to do so this weekend. What should the fuel pressure be at idle, and under load?

Could easily be the TFI. I've personally seen the modules do this. I'm told any good automotive store has the ability to test them, but I can't verify that. Call them and see.

Doubt it's a fuel pump. Something to look at is the regulator on the line to make sure it's working correctly. If you could monitor the FP, it would be helpful.
 

93_SVT_Cobra

New Member
Established Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
28
Location
Florida
Could easily be the TFI. I've personally seen the modules do this. I'm told any good automotive store has the ability to test them, but I can't verify that. Call them and see.

Doubt it's a fuel pump. Something to look at is the regulator on the line to make sure it's working correctly. If you could monitor the FP, it would be helpful.

Wow, so you've seen the TFI do something like this? What exactly have you experienced with this? I have been wondering about the TFI. Driving the car Monday, I just had the hesitation under load, but one day last week, the car almost died in traffic, and when I pulled over for a few minutes, it would not start. It took about half an hour and then it started and I drove it on home. I was wondering if the TFI is heating up and shorting or something.

Any chance this could be the pick up coil /stator in the distributor. I have the stock distributor on board.
The FP reg is brand new/ non-adjustable. I still need to check the FP to see what I have.
 

buddha93

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2002
Messages
2,636
Location
St. Louis

cobr96

getting old
Established Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
994
Location
Texas
get someone to check the fuel pressure before you do too much, could be a bad pump, sock filter, hose connections in tank, or fuel filter. and the idle air motor needs to be checked as said above.
 

bossman302

Banned
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
344
Location
ky
I have seen a cloged Fuel filter cause this, may also want to check the ignition switch on the column, somethimes they seperate, and don't get full power to the ignition system, or fuel system. Their is a recall for this switch, causes all kinds of wierd stuff
 

93Cobra#2771

SVT God
Established Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
4,881
Location
Driving the Cobra
Thank you very much for the advice. I appreciate your taking the time to respond to my issues. To answer all of your questions:
1. I have a conical K&N filter, which is situated directly in front of the MAF under the hood. The filter is not in an enclosure.
2. It is an oiled filter.
3. Looked at all of the vacuum lines/tree and everything seems to be properly placed and routed correctly according to the manufacturer's diagram.
4. How would I verify that the EGR is not hung open. I did take it off and push on the plunger and it seemed to move freely.
5. Reset the ECU as directed, and ran it down the road. Same issues, it just pulls to about 3/4 throttle. As soon as it is above 2000 RPM it just hangs there like it has hit a rev limiter.

Any additional thoughts? Thank you, again!
Before you start spending money, get a can of electrical contact cleaner. Take the oiled air filter off the MAF. Look inside the mouth at the sensing wires. They should be nice and shiny. If not, spray them with the contact cleaner until they are. If you are very careful, you can gently rub them with a qtip soaked in the cleaner.

Having the air filter on the end of the MAF can lead to issues, especially with fan wash causing bad signals to the MAF. If can find a stock style airbox, I highly recommend you install one.

That's the first step I would take.
 

buddha93

Well-Known Member
Established Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2002
Messages
2,636
Location
St. Louis
Before you start spending money, get a can of electrical contact cleaner. Take the oiled air filter off the MAF. Look inside the mouth at the sensing wires. They should be nice and shiny. If not, spray them with the contact cleaner until they are. If you are very careful, you can gently rub them with a qtip soaked in the cleaner.

Having the air filter on the end of the MAF can lead to issues, especially with fan wash causing bad signals to the MAF. If can find a stock style airbox, I highly recommend you install one.

That's the first step I would take.

Wow, good call Richard. I didn't catch that in his follow up post. :bash:

I wouldn't even worry about cleaning the MAF wire. Richard already summed up the problems that is causes, so no sense in repeating it. You need to move the filter into the fenderwell, or at least get an enclosure around the filter. Sometimes these cars won't even idle with the filter in that location.
 

93Cobra#2771

SVT God
Established Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
4,881
Location
Driving the Cobra
He still needs to check the MAF elements - chances are if it's an oiled element, it has been cleaned and re-oiled, which usually leads to over-oiling and contaminated sensing wires... :)
 

straightliner1

Active Member
Established Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2003
Messages
2,348
Location
Sacramento, CA
I just happened to stop in here on a whim...

I had the exact same scenario the OP is explaining, on a 91GT I had. I converted over to 24lb injectors, a 93 Cobra MAF and an X3Z ECM. Car would break up around 2000 RPM. Turned out to be a bad ECM. I re-installed my A9L and used a TwEECer to allow for the larger injectors.

Keep it simple, make the cheap, easy fixes before you start throwing money at it. Good luck
 

93_SVT_Cobra

New Member
Established Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
28
Location
Florida
Hello everyone. I want to thank you all for the helpful advice in the past, I've learned so much about this car in the past year. Unfortunately, I've spent a lot of money learning about this car, but at least when it is officially fixed, a lot of the parts will be new. First of all, the car is still not fixed. I've done a lot of research, reading blogs and discussions on similar issues as mine, to no luck. It seems that the bogging down/sputtering/loss of power under load can be caused by an array of different issues. Well, I'm discovering some things that I did not previously. First of all, the fuel pump, fuel filter, and fuel pressure regulator are all brand new, and of OEM configuration. That being said, I finally bought a test kit for the fuel injection. Upon installing the test gauge to the shrader valve test port on the fuel rail, I started the car and at idle I see 32 psi (vacuum attached to the FPR). Revving the engine at the Throttle Body (holding the throttle at around 3000 rpm), the pressure jumps to ~38 psi, but only for a second. It jumps to 38 or so and then immediately falls down to around 28 psi. Alright, so a little history of what I've done with the fuel system. Last year I replaced the pump with a factory replacement from Oreilly. I cannot say for sure the flow rating, but I'm guessing its probably an 88lph. I've learned that my Cobra came with a 110 lph from the factory. What I've noticied is that all of the replacement pumps at typical parts houses cross to the GT as well, which would be 88lph, so I'm to think I have installed an 88lph. Beyond that, I've installled two filters, the latest was installed last weekend. About six months ago, I replaced the pressure regulator with a factory replacement (I'm assuming these are not adjustable). I removed the rail and injectors at the same time, and soaked the injectors in seafoam. I installed the injectors with new o rings and since there has been no evidence of leaks (I've checked on many occasions). So, that's all that I have done with the fuel system. What I am noticing is that over the past week (I've driven the car daily for a month now), when I go to start the car in the mornings, it is hard to start and I have to purge the pump a couple of times. If the car starts without purging, it idles really low, or stalls. This leads me to believe I'm losing pressure somewhere. Once I purge the pump a couple of times, it will idle fine. The same thing happens when I leave work after the car has sat for 8 hours. So, back to the previous issues, stated in my first post. Under load, the car bogs really bad, and after fires if you hold the pedal long enough. It's just smothering out under load. It will not stall, it just has no throttle response and eventually after fires. Does anyone have any advice? I'm starting to think in the direction of replacing the pump with a 155lph, adjustable FPR and new injectors. The engine is mildly modded (headers, off road x, flowmaster, K&N Cold Air; Can someone comment on the fuel pump I should go with? I've heard that a 255lph is too much without some larger scale mods. Thank you all in advance.
 

93_SVT_Cobra

New Member
Established Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2011
Messages
28
Location
Florida
The plugs look sort of gray/tan in color. And, yes, I meant to say 'prime', meaning that I turn the ignition key to the on position, where the pump energizes and pressurizes the line. Thank you for your comments.
 

fivestangs

Member
Established Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
550
Location
in the burbs around New Orleans
I re-read the entire thread, and there's a ton of good advice here. I guess I have a couple of observations to mention:
First, it sounds like the fuel pressure guage you got is only good to view under the hood. I would beg/borrow/steal a GOOD mechanical fuel pressure guage and run a braided line from the shrader valve to the guage mounted to the cowl....if you have to, use a bunch of zip-ties to keep the guage from moving. This way, you can actually see your FP as you're driving around...it's an invaluable diagnostic tool.
Second, a lot of people mentioned changing the TFI but I don't see (or maybe I just missed it) where you said you changed it...did you? Those things are known to be VERY intolerant of heat (and thus, why Ford moved it off the distributor on the later model stangs).
Third, I have a 255lph on one of my stangs, and it's fairly stock. Its in there because I had a blower on the car that I took off, I didn't change the pump, and it runs fine...the stock regulator is more than capable enough of bypassing the extra fuel.

Good luck!
Mark
 

Users who are viewing this thread



Top