Aftermarket Heat Exchanger

[sqidd]

LoL that's your own site, why not own it instead of hiding around it. Also I have noticed a huge benefit in heat soak with fans. Stop and go traffic sucks. Why didn't you touch on that?

Ask yourself, what could I possibly have as an agenda in regards to HE fans? What is the upside for me? Why would I take the time to do all of the tasting then write an article? It's not to make money. It's not for kudo's or acclaim. I catch flak for this, not adulation. What could I possibly gain aside from knowing tat I tried to do the community some good by sharing the results of my extensive testing? If I have nothing to gain, why would I lie, fudge the numbers, etc? There is no motive.

I'm not a sponsor on this site. I have to be careful how I post. I don't hind from anything, especially this. I have data to back up my claims. No one else does.

You have not noticed a huge benefit with heat soak in traffic with fans. Unless you're tracking water temps pre and post HE (no one does) you don't have applicable data. Your IAT2 numbers during anything but WOT are impossible to use to judge HE performance. They're not even good enough to track trends.

I did touch on HE performance in stop and go traffic. In detail. With actual data.

From the article:

"There is no doubt that a HE fan(s) “works” under a certain vehicle speed (details/numbers on that below). But if you’re looking at only getting a 3deg drop in water temps (which is actually what you will see for a maxiumim), is it really “working”?

That 3deg water temp drop number in the HE by using a fan is a good number. We have tested this extensively. How much does that 3deg drop effect your IAT?" If it effected it on a 1:1 ratio, which is best case scenario (it will never be as good as best case), you’re looking at a 3deg IAT drop. Which is insignificant and also impossible to accurately read at the IAT sensor.

 

[sqidd]

Heat soak doesn't just go right away so the fans help for that for sure.

The fans help a maximum of 3deg. But at the cost of more than that at every speed above 10-14pmh. Do the fans help when in traffic? Sure. A whole 3deg. Is it worth the performance you spend at every other speed? Most would argue a resounding no.

If it's just a highway cruiser there is no need for fans. For me, I have traffic lights everywhere so if I want to romp on it when the light turns green, the fans make that possible.

No they don't. You just think they do.

 

[sqidd]

Nice compilation of data...good to have all of that in one place. Is the reason the VMP outperforms the stock unit in most situations because the VMP unit has dual fans and the stocker doesn't?

The VMP would perform better on average with the fans removed.

 

[sqidd]

From your web page:

When we set out to make our own heat exchanger for the GT500, we set out to achieve the absolute highest cooling capacity available. We have achieved just that with our 07-12 GT500 heat exchanger. Our triple pass design is the only one of its kind on the market, all others are single or double pass units.

Many competitive units are advertised using outside dimensions that are passed off as actual cooling area dimensions, meaning a unit being shown with 2 inches of thickness outside but actually only has 1 1/4 inches for the actual core itself making it hard to make true comparisons. Our true core thickness coming in at 1.7 inches is larger than any other dual fan heat exchanger on the market.

The above text in red is not accurate.

 

[sqidd]

Here's one part of the fan/no fan debate that's really not discussed, and in my opinion is a critical consideration. The front bumper blocks a pretty good portion of the frontal area of the heat exchanger. I don't care how fast you're going, I don't see air flow bending 90* around the bumper and then another 90* to go through the core. Not having seen DoB's test set up, I'm not sure it would apply to real world driving situations installed in the mustang. I don't discount the fact that air flow at speed is impeded by fans, but if only 60% of the face is exposed to air flow, would the other 40% that's behind the bumper benefit from fans? And would that benefit offset?

Just to illustrate, here's a pic I found with a VMP triple installed without the bumper cover.

View attachment 1538904

A good point. But, if you don't need room for the fans behind the HE you can move the HE back which un-shrouds the HE face behind the bumper brace. Once un-shrouded the airflow will move through the core. Air does not move in straight lines. It's best to think of it as a liquid.

You could also argue that having fans is not going to do a whole lot for air moving through the core behind the bumper anyway. Certainly not at the speed/volume as the un-shrouded portion. Which is not fast at all in the first place.

Lastly, if you move the HE back right up against the A/C condenser and "seal" the edges with rubberized stripping you can take advantage of the air the radiator fan pulls (which is A LOT MORE than any HE fan(s)) and get good air speed through the HE core while in traffic/at slow speeds. Without the need for HE fans. I've done this. I did not have a anneometer at the time, but the air moving through the HE would hold a 8.5x11 piece of paper to the face of the HE HARD. I'll be running this as an actual test soon and measuring air speed. I'm confident that you can get as much air speed through the HE with the radiator fan as you can with HE fan(s). And if you can, why run HE fans?

 

[50stangpower]

Ask yourself, what could I possibly have as an agenda in regards to HE fans? What is the upside for me? Why would I take the time to do all of the tasting then write an article? It's not to make money. It's not for kudo's or acclaim. I catch flak for this, not adulation. What could I possibly gain aside from knowing tat I tried to do the community some good by sharing the results of my extensive testing? If I have nothing to gain, why would I lie, fudge the numbers, etc? There is no motive.

I'm not a sponsor on this site. I have to be careful how I post. I don't hind from anything, especially this. I have data to back up my claims. No one else does.

You have not noticed a huge benefit with heat soak in traffic with fans. Unless you're tracking water temps pre and post HE (no one does) you don't have applicable data. Your IAT2 numbers during anything but WOT are impossible to use to judge HE performance. They're not even good enough to track trends.

I did touch on HE performance in stop and go traffic. In detail. With actual data.

From the article:

"There is no doubt that a HE fan(s) “works” under a certain vehicle speed (details/numbers on that below). But if you’re looking at only getting a 3deg drop in water temps (which is actually what you will see for a maxiumim), is it really “working”?

That 3deg water temp drop number in the HE by using a fan is a good number. We have tested this extensively. How much does that 3deg drop effect your IAT?" If it effected it on a 1:1 ratio, which is best case scenario (it will never be as good as best case), you’re looking at a 3deg IAT drop. Which is insignificant and also impossible to accurately read at the IAT sensor.

I dont really care either way but in a real world situation with my stock 13 HX the IAT2 temp would rise alot in traffic. when data logging I could see it pulling timing. Fast forward to the HX with fans, I dont have the issue of timing being pulled any longer.

Also thanks for being upfront, I dont think you have anything to gain either, just wanted it to be clear.

 

[Handlebar Moustache]

Lastly, if you move the HE back right up against the A/C condenser and "seal" the edges with rubberized stripping you can take advantage of the air the radiator fan pulls (which is A LOT MORE than any HE fan(s)) and get good air speed through the HE core while in traffic/at slow speeds. Without the need for HE fans. I've done this. I did not have a anneometer at the time, but the air moving through the HE would hold a 8.5x11 piece of paper to the face of the HE HARD. I'll be running this as an actual test soon and measuring air speed. I'm confident that you can get as much air speed through the HE with the radiator fan as you can with HE fan(s). And if you can, why run HE fans?

Interesting. In your opinion, if you took the stock 13-14 unit, modified it as you describe above, and compared it to something like a VMP unit, would the benefit of upgrading to an aftermarket unit be significant? Do you think the a/c system would take a noticeable performance hit?

 

[sqidd]

I dont really care either way but in a real world situation with my stock 13 HX the IAT2 temp would rise alot in traffic. when data logging I could see it pulling timing. Fast forward to the HX with fans, I dont have the issue of timing being pulled any longer.

Your "test" is flawed. You're leaving multiple variables that you have not accounted for out of the equation. In addition to that, your testing data/results is/are incredibly inaccurate. The only way to get accurate data is to measure water temp pre/post HE. Until you do that you don't have data. What you have is numbers that you can cherry pick to support your confirmation bias. No shame in it, even the best scientists in the world have to go to extraordinary lengths to eliminate confirmation bias. When I'm testing I try and go in not looking for a specific outcome. And then I go to great lengths to eliminate confirmation bias by testing from two different angles. One to prove an assumption (or in some people's cases a wish). The other angle to is to prove that my assumptions are wrong. Only then can you begin to get to a result that represents the truth.

 

[sqidd]

Interesting. In your opinion, if you took the stock 13-14 unit, modified it as you describe above, and compared it to something like a VMP unit, would the benefit of upgrading to an aftermarket unit be significant? Do you think the a/c system would take a noticeable performance hit?

The 13/14 unit is a tough one because it is very dense and very thick. Getting air through the core is hard. This is just a seat of the pants assumption, but at the end of the day I think the VMP triple with no fans will out perform the 13' GT500 in most situations. How much? I don't know. That would take a pretty in depth test to figure out. And you would probably find one works in one speed range than the other and vice versa.

 

[Catmonkey]

A good point. But, if you don't need room for the fans behind the HE you can move the HE back which un-shrouds the HE face behind the bumper brace. Once un-shrouded the airflow will move through the core. Air does not move in straight lines. It's best to think of it as a liquid.

You could also argue that having fans is not going to do a whole lot for air moving through the core behind the bumper anyway. Certainly not at the speed/volume as the un-shrouded portion. Which is not fast at all in the first place.

Lastly, if you move the HE back right up against the A/C condenser and "seal" the edges with rubberized stripping you can take advantage of the air the radiator fan pulls (which is A LOT MORE than any HE fan(s)) and get good air speed through the HE core while in traffic/at slow speeds. Without the need for HE fans. I've done this. I did not have a anneometer at the time, but the air moving through the HE would hold a 8.5x11 piece of paper to the face of the HE HARD. I'll be running this as an actual test soon and measuring air speed. I'm confident that you can get as much air speed through the HE with the radiator fan as you can with HE fan(s). And if you can, why run HE fans?

That's a valid point I hadn't considered. I'll be interested to see what y'all come up with.

 

[RedVenom48]

If you have your car setup for drag racing, yes, you want the larger core and fans. You should also be running a cooler T-stat as well for an overall cooler running system. I want that IC fluid as cool as I can reasonably get it before the next trip down the track. Only way i can do it is run the car in the staging lanes until I feel the fluid is cooled off enough then shut it down. I dont run an ice tank as Im not completely hardcore. Yet.

 

[sqidd]

If you have your car setup for drag racing, yes, you want the larger core and fans.

You have to be careful making blanket statements like that. Especially when it comes to cooling systems. Your statement may be true if you're moving 6gpm of water (most of you are). But if you're moving 30gpm, the fans hurt more than they help.

 

[evasive]

Cool, nice to see some data posted. No testing of the C&R or in combination with a better radiator? Mine is just a garage & cruise-in queen but it is always interesting to read legit tests. Facts can be a stubborn

 

[rwleonard]

I am hoping to make DoB's complete system (intake, IC, HE, etc.) next winter's mods.