Another sad day in the history of our Cobras...

[Z20WHAT]

Okay here is the update:

We went to look at the car with a exclusive Mustang specialist mechanic that does most of the work on our cars. We started the car up and immediately he told me to shut it down because the motor was shot. It was not seized, but it blew out the largest puff of smoke you'd ever seen and was pinging/knocking like a mofo.

He then looked it over and told us that the problem was that most people do not know how to fill up the cooling system on the 4V modular motors. He says if any part of the system is opened/taken apart, it's necessary to use a bleeder valve on top of the split railing to fill it back up because it's the highest point in the system and if you do it through the reservoir, it leaves a big pocket of air sitting in the rails. This will cause the motor to overheat.

He asked the mechanic of the shop to explain what all he did. The guy said he disconnected the lower radiator hose and also the intercooler hose, but that it never lost more than 1 or 2 qrts of coolant. Our mechanic then asked how he refilled it. The guy was sorta confused and just said "normally" and then pointed to the radiator reservoir cap. Our mechanic said "no, no, no..."

The guys tried to give us an initial run around, at first accusing me of driving it under overheated conditions intentionally and asking why I didn't notice the temp guage, as if...
Then they weren't too sure about the proper procedure, so now it's in their hands as they look over the car to figure things out. We suspect they're on the phone with their lawyers as well.

So the motor is shot because it DID overheat. And we made sure to point out the empty intercooler reservoir, which is totally inexcusable. Bottom line is that it was their fault, they didn't do things correctly, and now things are worse.

Now we wait...

 

[9900blueoval]

did u point out the mispainted parts u talked about earlier?did all of this take place in the body shop or something else went down??good luck

 

[Sailing2Smth]

Originally posted by Z20WHAT
It is my car. I paid for it.

I am 22.

No warranty work has been done thus far, and it is still somewhat under warranty. I've only got an upper pulley, off-road H, cat-back, and CAI. We're planning on getting the insurance company involved once the shop has responded.

I see.....I think that the upper pulley might void your warranty.
Anyway Good Luck! I hope it works out for you.

 

[Z20WHAT]

Originally posted by 9900blueoval
did u point out the mispainted parts u talked about earlier?did all of this take place in the body shop or something else went down??good luck

Yes I pointed them out but that was the least of the worries. They'll take care of that, of course. It was right in their parking lot. And thanks.

 

[Mustangmom2k]

Hi mom,
I'm Tony's friend Brad from Alabama.

Hi, Brad Tony mentioned that he'd talked to you about this ordeal.

And to the mother - have you considered taking the car to ford? Is the car still under warranty (or is the warranty voided by mods)

I'm not taking the car anywhere; Tony will take the car wherever he eventually decides. I guess I sort of butted in here, but it's for support. This is my son here, and anything that happens to him is of utmost concern to me. I would also be concerned if it was any other Mustang comrade...just like all the other kind folks here who've offered their advice and opinions. And this has been a great learning experience for me as well!

Our mech guru has determined that the engine is toast due to improper coolant refilling procedure. He looked at the car, talked to the guy who did the repairs (as well as the manager), and the ball is now in the body shop's court as they react and try to dodge responsibility. (They're already trying to blame Tony for "continuing to drive in an overheated condition", but it won't stick.) We're now waiting for their official response after their guy goes over the car "looking for other sources of the malfunction", and our next move will depend on what they say.

Tony will call the insurance company to alert them to the situation. Whether they actually get fully involved or not remains to be seen. I plan to talk to an attorney in case we need one in the near future.

That's where it stands right now.

 

[flyn high again]

Tony, The body shop is squirming on the hook but I think that you bringing your mechanic with you was a VERY smart move. If it was just you, the shop would try to blame you but they will have a hard time talking their way out of liability with another expert standing there. Good job! I think the shop will realize they are at fault and eventually turn it over to their insurance co.

 

[Mustangmom2k]

Out of curiosity, did you Cobra guys know that you have to refill/replace the coolant not through the reservoir cap, but rather through the bleeder valve on top of the transfer tube? This is only if the system has been opened, i.e., any hoses taken off, etc. (Normal adding of coolant is done the normal way.)

We never knew this critical information. And I dare say, neither did the poor guy who worked on the radiator. I just wonder how many guys might make the same expensive mistake after doing their own work and having to replace coolant.

 

[Dana]

Filling instructions for 4.6L 4V from the Ford Service Manual:

Check all hose clamps for correct tightness. Make sure the radiator draincock is closed.
Place the heater temperature selector in maximum heat position.
Remove the pressure cap from the cooling system reservoir and the fill plug from the engine crossover tube.
CAUTION: Do not fill the cooling system through the reservoir only. Coolant will not enter the engine. Only the reservoir and the radiator will be filled and engine overheating will occur.

Add coolant into the fill neck on the engine crossover tube until coolant reaches the top of the fill neck on the cooling system reservoir.
Install the cooling system pressure cap on the reservoir.
Continue to fill the cooling system at the engine crossover fill neck until full.
Install the engine crossover tube fill plug.
WARNING: To avoid the possibility of personal injury or damage to the vehicle, do not operate the engine with the hood open until the fan has been first examined for possible cracks and separation.

CAUTION: If the engine temperature gauge does not move, coolant level is low in the engine and must be filled. Stop the engine, allow to cool, and fill the cooling system as outlined.

Run the engine until the thermostat opens (coolant flowing through the radiator lower hose becomes hot).
Stop the engine and allow to cool.
Add coolant to the engine crossover tube fill neck until the cooling system is full.
Install the fill plug.
Repeat the fill procedure if necessary.

Bleeding

Select the maximum heater temperature and blower motor speed settings. Position the control to discharge air at A/C vents in instrument panel (04320).
Start the engine and allow to idle. While engine is idling, feel for hot air at A/C vents.
CAUTION: If the air discharge remains cool and the engine coolant temperature gauge does not move, the engine coolant level is low and must be filled. Stop the engine, allow the engine to cool and fill cooling system.

Start the engine and allow it to idle until normal operating temperature is reached. Hot air should discharge from A/C vents. The engine coolant temperature gauge should maintain a stabilized reading in the middle of the NORMAL range. The upper radiator hose (8260) should feel hot to the touch.
Shut the engine off and allow the engine to cool.
Check the engine for coolant leaks.
Check the engine coolant level in the degas bottle/coolant expansion tank and fill as necessary.

Dana

 

[Z20WHAT]

Thanks Dana! That is EXACTLY what we needed. Can you please provide me with a reference?

 

[Mustangmom2k]

Dana, if I had an orchestra and choir at my disposal, they would be playing the Halelluja Chorus right now!!!

BAM!

 

[Z20WHAT]

Originally posted by Z20WHAT
Thanks Dana! That is EXACTLY what we needed. Can you please provide me with a reference?

NM.

I guess the reference would be the manual, duh! =P

 

[flyn high again]

Dana's legend grows...

 

[Mustangmom2k]

CAUTION: Do not fill the cooling system through the reservoir only. Coolant will not enter the engine. Only the reservoir and the radiator will be filled and engine overheating will occur.

I really like this one. Notice that engine overheating WILL occur....not may or could...but will occur.

CAUTION: If the engine temperature gauge does not move, coolant level is low in the engine and must be filled.

And this one...let them try to accuse Tony of "continuing to drive in an overheated condition". How could he know the car was overheating?

 

[Dana]

Yes, the information is a direct quote from the 2003 Ford Service manual. This one is from the 2003 Service DVD.
All dealers should have it or available on E-Bay. HA! HA!

Good luck.

Isn't cut and paste great?

Dana

 

[Z20WHAT]

The latest update is this:

They looked over the car and claim that it's only a right head gasket that's blown.

They say that they can fix it, or they'll pay for a FORD dealer to fix it, but WILL NOT pay my shop to fix my car. They also mentioned something about not wanting to mess around with the warranty, to which I told them it's long gone anyway.

To me, this is unacceptable. My car is no longer under warranty, I have never trusted Ford with my cars and am not about to start. I've modified the car (including a chip) and do not want anything biting me in the ass. I think this is a clever ploy by them, perhaps.

At any rate I think my mom is getting an attorney for me and I've notified the Insurance Company. I will tell my shop tomorrow what he thinks.

I need to know what all the possibilities here are. The motor overheated, should I be comfortable with just a simple head gasket replacement and let the unknowns of the motor be up in the air? I can't imagine the motor not being damaged after being driven in overheated conditions and a blown head gasket. I don't want to take any chances. This things needs to be 100%.

Any other comments, etc are welcomed.

 

[Mustangmom2k]

My first question for a lawyer will be whether or not the owner of the car has the right to determine who does the repair/rebuild/replacement. Or does the body shop paying the bill have the right to determine where the car goes?

My second question will be to what extent our insurance company needs to involved. (Tony can ask the very same question to our agent).

I personally believe that they want Ford to find computer codes which would indicate that the car was abused...overrevved, etc., and try to use that against Tony, which is fine because they won't find any. And/or they want Ford to verify what our guy said, which is also fine. But beyond that, I can't see how they can say "Either we fix it, or Ford fixes it. No one else."

I think the biggest hurdle has been cleared though, i.e., getting them to take responsibility. The rest can be left to professionals, if need be, to work out details.

 

[stevieb]

Please dont settle for just a head gasket. If the engine overheated to the point of siezing as it did, there are other things wrong and if you accept that repair I can almost guarantee something will fail soon, they want you to accept the half a$$ repair job so that will absolve them from future repairs. Ask your mechanic, he will say the same thing. The worst thing that can happen to a motor is to overheat it, everything swells and expands beyond its designed limits, not to mention the hi temps make the oil turn into carbon.
The problem is the repair shop DID NOT FOLLOW THE CORRECT SERVICE PROCEDURES. PERIOD AND THEY ADMITTED IT.

Funny how people know how to fix everything and when they screw up then they refer to the directions.
Question for Tony. I dont understand why you dont want Ford to fix your car. First off they are better than the shop that you just came from.

Second, you know the mods voided the warranty so why should Ford care at this point. They are getting a paying customer (In this case its the hatchet shop youre at now). And I dont think Ford is going to do a half ass repair, because they are going to have to warranty the repair they do. You may have to agree to take some mods off (Hey If it were me and Ford said they would make the engine run good as new, but I had to remove the mods, Id say the box of stock parts are in the trunk).
A dealer is going to lean on the side of overcaution, especially when someone is paying $$. (in regards to selling parts/repairs)

If the dealer is not SVT, insist on one that is, because I think you have 3 choices here. Let the hatchet shop fix it, you can take the car and fix it for about $10k or have Ford do it.

 

[Cobra10thaniv]

Originally posted by Z20WHAT
The latest update is this:

They looked over the car and claim that it's only a right head gasket that's blown.

They say that they can fix it, or they'll pay for a FORD dealer to fix it, but WILL NOT pay my shop to fix my car.

I need to know what all the possibilities here are. The motor overheated, should I be comfortable with just a simple head gasket replacement and let the unknowns of the motor be up in the air? I can't imagine the motor not being damaged after being driven in overheated conditions and a blown head gasket. I don't want to take any chances. This things needs to be 100%.

Any other comments, etc are welcomed.

I have rebuilt many motors any tech that is worth his spit will tell you once water hits the oil all you bearing are crap. shot, no good what every you want to call it. They will fail! not on intial start but they will. You will spin a rod or a main or just hear knocking of the rods if your lucky.


I just matter of fact spent a hour explaining the same thing to a fellow with his 3/4 ton truck at the shop tonight.. That his bearings are bad you loose lubrication quality of oil with a very small amount of water. Chances are you blew a gasket your head warped and you have some water in the oil most likely.

Your not driving a old ford pick up you have a 35,000 dollar car. That isnt just a run of the mill car it has a 11 grand motor and very high performance engine where tolerances need to be kept. Not all damage is shown up what was done was the life of the engine was eliminated.

When I read the thought of them throwing a gasket in and let it go at that just made me blow a gasket of my own here.

The attorney will be well spent I know there not cheap but in this case it needs to be done. I dont know maybe he might be able to retrieve costs if they fight you. Make sure to ask them that,


ALso not that I dont trust anyone but I dont. 90% of the time I keep a micro casset recorder and have in my shirt pocket and record all conver sations with the dealer. You wouldnt believe what you catch on tape. Completely legal as long as one of the people in the conversation knows their being recorded.

I have settled a 2 cases out of court when i gave them the transcrips of what they said. Also they paid for my attorneys fees and time and trouble.

Be wise about it if you havent recorded it till now. Then go over the info about your tech noting how they didn't know what there doing when repairing

Also get in righting from a top known engine builder to state what would be proper thing to be done.

I hope this helps. Im really sorry about the situation.

Sorry about the typos. I type to fast and dont care about spelling like I should in my messages

 

[99GTP guy]

Im subscribed

Sorry about this bro. Sounds like you will be awhile without your car. Wish you the best, keeping an eye on the thread to see what happends, keep us updated.

PS I would try to get a whole new engine. You want your car to be perfect like you got it, I wouldn't settle for less.

 

[Cobra Dude]

Once you get the car back together, get rid of it for another one.