Anyone have Coil Overs on all four corners?

[raider187]

Anyone have Coil Overs on all four corners?


I'm looking into suspension upgrades now... Need Help, I want the best bang for the buck, coil overs seem to be it!

All opinions welcome :beer:

 

[Snake Eyes]

I have a full Griggs kit (along with a bunch of other parts) just waiting to go in, cant wait. This is what the William Mathis says, so that means it is correct. If you are looking for suspension advise this is it. The only point I disagree with is that replacing all four subframe bushings doesn't increase NVH that much, many have done all 4 MM bushings with great results.


Good luck.
Kyle

There are three basic IRS systems used in the Cobra Mustang, each with its own set of problems. The 99-01 IRS was designed for a smooth ride and low NVH. To achieve this, soft bushing were used in the subframe and the control arms. Although it is natural for Cobra owners to do burnouts, this series of IRS was never designed to handle this type of use. Ford mandated that the car ride smoothly and so soft springs, dampers and bushings were used. The second type of IRS was installed in the 2000 Cobra R. It had very high durameter bushings in the control arms as well as a pinion brace, amoung several other durability and road racing modifications. Additionally, it was equipped with 750 lb/in springs and road racing valved shocks. Although a significant improvement over the "smooth ride" version that was in the 99-01 Cobras, it was not intended to be used for drag racing. The latest rendition found in the 03 Cobra was designed with handling in mind. The control arm bushing are higher durameter than the previous Cobras, although less than the Cobra R. The 600 lb/in springs and semi road racing valving do not make for great drag racing launches. Given the basic designs of these, depending on which version you have, there are a few things that can be done to improve the function of the IRS and eliminate the wheel hop.

First, if your Cobra does not have the pinion brace, add it. Although Paul's is a good unit, the Ford piece fits perfectly and is both cheap and strong. I would recommend the harder Maximum Motorsports or Steeda bushings. Second, replace the front IRS subframe bushings with a polyurethane or Delron material and a steel sleeve. Do not replace the rear bushings unless the car is a track car only. NVH and high speed gear noise will increase significantly when the rear subframe bushings are replaced. These bushings are the same as the pre '94 Mustang trailing arms, so if you have a set of the Energy Suspensions items, use them. When you replace these bushings, replace the mounting bolts with standard 14 mm bolts instead of the stepped 12 mm pieces. The stock 12 mm bolts allow the subframe to move and should be replaced.

If your car has a 99-01 IRS, you will need to upgrade the control arm bushings, as the stock units are very soft. If your car is a street car where listening to tunes is important, install the 03 Cobra pieces, else, install Delron with the metal sleeve. Also, the knuckles (uprights) are much stronger on the 03 unit. You will need a VIN number from a Cobra R to get the R units and a VIN number from an 03 Cobra to purchase the 03 control arms.

Next, fabricate a bracket from 3/16" x 4"x 4" Flat ASTM A108 steel that will be welded to the outside edge of the rear subframe mount bracket and extended up inside the wheel well to a point approximately 1.5" above the level of the trunk floor. Drill two 3/8" holes through the bracket and wheel well into the trunk area, approximately 0.75" above the trunk floor. Install grade 8 bolts, nylon insert nuts and W series, type B, washers. You will have to massage the plate to conform to the wheel well. This modification is very important to the elimination of wheel hop. The cantilever bracket that mounts the IRS subframe to the frame bends considerably under heavy throttle or cornering loads. Additionally, you should replace the shocks with AFCO 7" stroke, double-adjust stock car shocks. This will require the fabrication of a small bracket for the upper mount. These shocks are inexpensive and provide excellent frequency control. Finally, be sure to check the pinion nut and all the center section mounting bolts. These have been known to be loose with little or no mileage on the car.

One of the side benefits to these modifications is a significant improvement in steering compliance. The car actually becomes pretty neutral and the off-center compliance is much quicker. If cornering is important to you, slot the upper control arm mounts for the uprights approximately 3 mm inboard. Modify the cam bolts to allow negative camber settings. You should see approximately 1.2 - 1.3 degrees of negative camber with this modification, and a noticable improvement in corner transition.

 

[Cobra-R]

I have had the full Griggs setup, including the coil-overs on for just about a year now......love it.

 

[raider187]

Good Stuff... Thanks!

I'm still in the homework phase :read:

 

[High-G Racing]

Originally posted by Snake Eyes
This is what the William Mathis says, so that means it is correct.

Dad would be flattered...

High-G

 

[Snake Eyes]

Mathis, William R. Mustang Performance Handbook: Engine and Drivetrain Modifications for Street, Drag Strip or Road Racing Use. H.P. Books, 1994.

Any questions?

 

[High-G Racing]

Mathis, Major R. (The gimpy kid with the broken arm and jacked-up leg holding the seat cover) Mustang Performance Handbook: Engine and Drivetrain Modifications for Street, Drag Strip or Road Racing Use. H.P. Book, 1994.

High-G

 

[raider187]

Originally posted by High-G Racing
Mathis, Major R. (The gimpy kid with the broken arm and jacked-up leg holding the seat cover) Mustang Performance Handbook: Engine and Drivetrain Modifications for Street, Drag Strip or Road Racing Use. H.P. Book, 1994.

High-G

:lol: :lol: :lol:

(Mathis, Major R. THE SUSPENSION APPOSTILE) You guy's are killing me with the Mathis Posts. I have taken the hint, LOL. I picked up a copy yesterday. (Raider will seek enlightenment :read: )



I the mean time... I have a set of OEM 2000 Cobra R Shock and Struts, and most of the delron replacement bushings.

I'm looking at the griggs K Member and A-arms. I still need a coilover kit for the OEM Cobra R stuff. I thinking the MM coilovers, any thoughts?

 

[therunyan]

Good choice on the '00 R Bilsteins -- I love mine! I've been considering the Max. Motorsports K Member, control arms and coil-overs. Anyone running this set up and how does it compare to the Griggs?

 

[Cobra-R]

Originally posted by therunyan
Good choice on the '00 R Bilsteins -- I love mine! I've been considering the Max. Motorsports K Member, control arms and coil-overs. Anyone running this set up and how does it compare to the Griggs?

Don't think you can go wrong with either setup. Griggs seems to favor Koni shocks/struts, while MM favors Bilsteins. If your car is going to be a track and street car, I would favor the adjustabliity of the Koni's, otherwise I would save some $$ and keep the Bilsteins.

Both change the geometry of the front end to improve some of the weaknesses our cars have. I wouldn't sweat it, buy the system you liek better and from whom you feel will give better service should a problem arise.

Brian

 

[Snake Eyes]

The Griggs setup is lighter than MM and makes LT installs easer, but the MM may be a bit stronger. Though I have never heard of any one breaking either. Griggs prefers the Koni's because they are adjustable and have a smaller diameter, witch allows you to put a coil over sleeve on them. The Bilsteins, I think require modifications (need to be threaded), but MM says they have a greater range of motion. I could be wrong on that I don't have Bilsteins.

 

[Cobra-R]

Originally posted by Snake Eyes
The Griggs setup is lighter than MM and makes LT installs easer, but the MM may be a bit stronger. Though I have never heard of any one breaking either. Griggs prefers the Koni's because they are adjustable and have a smaller diameter, witch allows you to put a coil over sleeve on them. The Bilsteins, I think require modifications (need to be threaded), but MM says they have a greater range of motion. I could be wrong on that I don't have Bilsteins.

I can tell you, even with the Griggs k, it is a total pia to do long tubes (not sure the brand of long tubes, wasn't my car), I think I would drop the k-member if I was going to do it again.

As I understand, the Bilsteins just need a groove put in the shock body (like the koni's come with) for the sleeve. When I talked to MM before, they seemed to have the opinion that Bilsteins had better long term durability on a street car than what you would get from the Koni's.

Brian

 

[therunyan]

Originally posted by Cobra-R
I can tell you, even with the Griggs k, it is a total pia to do long tubes (not sure the brand of long tubes, wasn't my car), I think I would drop the k-member if I was going to do it again.

As I understand, the Bilsteins just need a groove put in the shock body (like the koni's come with) for the sleeve. When I talked to MM before, they seemed to have the opinion that Bilsteins had better long term durability on a street car than what you would get from the Koni's.

Brian

I believe you are right about the groove -- that's one of the reasons (second to overall cost!) I've been holding off on this project since I'd have to do without my car for quite a few days -- I understand they will do a two-day/Fed-X turnaround on the shock, though.

 

[raider187]

I heard the same thing about the groove... I called a MM dealer in my local area, the said I didn't have to. I'm calling MM tomorrow to find out for sure, and how much it will cost. I hope I can have a local shop do it. The suspension is big $$$