Anyone who's pulled their motor - help.

[ShelbyGuy]

I hope you labeled not just what number the rods are, but which direction they face. On the big end it will be machined diffrently from one side to the other. one side is meant to face another connecting rod, and the other side needs to mate with the fillet in the crankshaft rod journal.

You can't just take this crap apart all willy-nilly and expect someone to put it back together correctly.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing...

 

[MalcolmV8]

I hope you labeled not just what number the rods are, but which direction they face. On the big end it will be machined diffrently from one side to the other. one side is meant to face another connecting rod, and the other side needs to mate with the fillet in the crankshaft rod journal.

You can't just take this crap apart all willy-nilly and expect someone to put it back together correctly.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing...

Every rod has an SVT logo on it and they face the front of the engine. I kept each rod cap on the way it came off. I didn't know if they were machined differently or not which is why I came on here and asked before pulling them off.
I don't expect someone else to put it back together, I'll do it myself. I know I don't know everything about it but that's why I'm here getting help.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Here's the surface of the pistons that would be facing the bottom of the block.

same view but without flash

The other side of the pistons

with flash

Not sure if you guys can see the discoloration on the crank or not but here's some pics. Not sure if this is perfectly normal or what.

Thanks
Malcolm

 

[boosted2000si]

How many miles were on your engine?

That crank look like it needs to be polished on the last rod journal(4 and 8)

As for decking the block its not necessary IMO. Like I said mine didnt see the machine shop at all, but its not running yet Im installing it back in the car later this afternoon. I however have confidence it will be a strong running motor.

As for honing the block, you will need to remove the crank for it. You need to pull it out anyways to get it machined due to what looks like 4 and 8 being a little scratched up. While its out have them balance it for your new pistons, and slap it all back together.

To hone you just buy the tool and put it in your drill. Oil it and the walls very good and start at a slow speed while moving it in and out of the cylinder. Always move it up and down, never let it sit in one place spinning. You want a crosshatch. Do it until the cylinders are no longer glazed. I spent about 5-10 mins per cylinder.

So far I say you will be around $2k out of pocket to get it back up and running with new pistons, machine work, all bearings and gaskets.

 

[MalcolmV8]

I've been calling machine shops to shop on price and so far the feed back from them all I'm getting is that my motor has been detonating. They said the worn teflon off the sides of the pistons and the ring jammed in the piston where I can't remove it are classic signs of a motor that's been detonating. I guess I should get a wideband when I get the car back together and monitor it's not running lean.

So I guess the machine shop will check my cylinders and make sure they are not out of round and see if a hone and new pistons is feasible. If not I'll get over sized pistons and they'll bore to match. He said he could order the pistons or I could shop around and get them myself. Where are you guys buying your pistons at? any good online sources?

Boosted2000si, my car had just rolled 26k miles.

Thanks
Malcolm

 

[boosted2000si]

That motor shows alot of wear for only 26k IMO.

The Teflon just wears off regardless of detonation or not.

I would use lethal for pistons.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Where are you guys getting the cam holding tool from? and what about the tool to compress the valve springs to remove the cam followers?

Thanks
Malcolm

 

[MalcolmV8]

Nothing on the tools? surprised as I've seen a few people on the site building their motors.
My local machine shop told me to bring the heads in complete with cams. He said they do a vacuum test on the valves and if that all checks out then can surface the heads with the cams on. If they need to be disassembled they do that too.

He said on forged pistons such as the 03 Cobra they will typically have 5 to 6 thousands piston to wall clearance. He said that creates the possibility of piston slap noise on cold start up but is required for heat expansion and for the motor to last when you get on it real hard and things really heat up.
Is that the same piston to wall clearance others are running? How bad is the piston slap noise if it does exist? is it embarrassing ticking noise like you have a broken motor LOL Just trying to get a feel for it.

Oh and I asked about head bolts vs head studs which was brought up in this thread and the machine shop said studs are preferred because they pull the head down on the block rather than the bolts pulling in the block. He said it reduces the chance of putting any twist in the block that could distort a cylinder. He also said he'd be using studs on the main caps rather than bolts.

I should hopefully have the block, crank, heads etc. to the machine shop tomorrow.

oh yeah - it's amazing how much opinion varies from one machine shop to the next. One shop told me diamond pistons are strong but vary so greatly in weight from one piston to another I should stay away from them. He said Manley is the way to go. Another machine shop told me diamond pistons are excellent and the preferred choice lol. In the end it's very hard to tell which machine shop to use.
One shop told me I should never surface these heads as it messes with the tension in the timing chains and screws up the timing. He said I need to just put the heads back as they are. Another shop told me 2 to 3 thousands to make sure the heads have a good sealing surface is perfectly acceptable and that the chain tensioners will make that up and timing won't hardly be affected. He said it takes somewhere around 10 thousands to retard timing just short of 1 degree. He highly recommended the heads be decked for a good seal.
In the end I asked a local performance shop that really seems to know their stuff and is well known in KC what machine shop they use and after speaking to the machine shop I'm comfortable taking my motor there.

Thanks guys
Malcolm

 

[procobra]

Hey malcolm I have the same noise coming from my cobra.....I have been reading your threads and they are very educative. So am gonna rebuild my engine myself. The only different thing am doing from you is that am getting a shortblock from MMR and i will have the heads freshened up. I will be doing it in my garage just like you. I wanted to ask you how hard or complicated are these modular engines when it comes down to tearing them down and do you think the engine could be pulled out by one person at home..... I will appreciate you response....

 

[MalcolmV8]

Procobra, just a few weeks ago I was in exactly your position wondering the same things. I checked on this forum and the guys on here inspired me to give it a try for myself and I'm glad I did.

I did it entirely by myself and this is the first modular motor I've ever torn apart or pulled for that matter.

For me the key was not to get overloaded in one session and start making mistakes when burnt out. I did it over several days taking my time. I've read on the forums that you can pull the motor and tranny as one unit but I was by myself and don't have a load leveler on my engine hoist so I decided to play it safe. I pulled the transmission, bell housing, and even flywheel while the motor sat in the car. That way the motor came straight up and out really easy.

The only thing I needed help with was my hood as I'd pulled something in my left shoulder a while back and didn't want to make it any worse by wrestling that thing by myself. So I got it unbolted and ready to go and had a neighbor come over and lift it up with me and gently place it on the roof of car with a blanket as shown in pics.

As for the tear down. Well take you time and remove everything connecting the motor to the car, cables, hoses, etc. etc. I probably spent a good part of a Saturday afternoon doing this.

Another thing I did was take a ton of pictures at every stage of the tear down so I have something to reference when putting it back together and I start picking up parts and wonder wtf are these? LOL
As I took stuff off I put what I could in zip lock bags and labeled them. Other parts that were to big I used some masking tape to label them too.

Anything you get stuck with or don't know just ask on the forums here, the guys are very helpful.

BTW - glad my threads where helpful. Did you see my youtube vids of the noise too?

Thanks
Malcolm

 

[MalcolmV8]

BTW guys, machine shop checked my block over and said cylinder #4 was .001 smaller in diameter than factory spec and the other 7 where not. It's my number 4 piston that toasted itself. The shop told me it looked like piston to wall clearance was to tight and the piston didn't have any room to expand.

They did an abrasive hone to get the scratches out of the cylinder and he said it went to +2 (which he explained as 0.002 over factory spec) to get the scratches out. He said that's wider than he'd go on a motor like ours making as much power as they do so he's boring to 0.020 and will be using over sized pistons.

 

[boosted2000si]

Yeah man I didnt touch my heads so I didnt have to bother with those tools.


Sounds like you are on track though!

Are you going to have the machine shop assemble the block or do it your self?

 

[MalcolmV8]

I'm going to assemble myself. The machine shop will prep everything for me. They are going to line bore if necessary and set the clearance on the main bearings etc., they'll weight match the pistons and after boring and honing they will file the rings to fit with the correct clearances etc. but they won't actually assemble the motor. They offered to for $200 but I didn't care about the money. I wanted to put the short block together myself even though technically they are doing all the hard work and doing the correct setup and all I'm doing is putting together the carefully prepared parts

As for the heads they are pulling the cams and followers out and pulling the valves out of that #4 cylinder I damaged make sure nothing looks bad there. He'll then vacuum test all the valves and if all looks good surface the heads as little as possible just to make sure I have a good flat surface to seal the motor up and then put the cams etc. back in.

Right now I'm just trying to figure out what pistons I need to stick with stock compression. Diamond 15cc or 19cc etc.? you may have seen the other piston thread I started trying to figure it out.

 

[speeddemon2000]

You don't need any cam tools if you only removing and re-installing the heads. You can use a flat head screw driver. I asked the Techs at MPH and this is how they do it. There is a vid somewherethat shows you how to do it. Basically you point the base circle of the cam down and place the follower on the top of the valve on one side and the lifter on the other side. Pry with the flat head, use the cam lobe for leverage. It pops in. I setup the chains and the tensioners first.

Spring Compressor Exhaust valves:

Professional Tools & Equipment - Ford Valve Spring Tool

I can't remember were I got the one for the intake valves but It's harder to find.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Thanks for the info. Since the machine shop is pulling the cams and re-installing them I don't have to worry about that part. Good to know though.

 

[WPGFORDGUY]

I take it out the bottom. LOTS LOTS easier. I did it before i had my lift too. Just made a palley for the k member and used an engine lift on the shock towers to raise it up. Was very easy.

x2 that how we do it

 

[procobra]

Thanks malcolm, my engine makes same noise as yours. My shortblock will be arriving tomorrow and i will be starting the project today..... Thanks alot for keeping us posted....

 

[MalcolmV8]

For those that were following this thread I started a new one when assembling a new motor

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/terminator-talk-229/596279-how-assemble-shortblock.html

I'll keep updating that thread as I go alone.

Thanks.