Automobile - Ford GT vs. Corvette ZO6 vs. Dodge Viper Coupe

[Formula51]

:nonono:
Why can't the same be said about the GT's overall performance being equal to or better than the almighty Z? :shrug: Please enlighten me. Haven't you been reading the mag comparos as well as the one review from the GT forums? I guess they don't teach reading in school these days. Please put down the crack pipe and get your head out of the Z's ass.

You enlighten me, without considering the review on the GT Forum, which we do not have official numbers for the last time I checked, you show me how the GT comes out on top of the Z06. Total it up as I did and show me......

 

[Formula51]

how does the weight distribution come into play? fore or aft for ballast?

The weight distribution comes into play with the weight shift due to the center of gravity height and the static loads on the front and rear axles. This determines the axle loads or normal forces on the front and rear tires, which in turn determines max possible front and rear braking forces based on the coefficeint of friction for the given tire compound. You really need to look at a vehicle dynamics book, its hard to explain without showing you equations.

 

[fordification]

here's a vid of the test.

http://release.theplatform.com/content.select?pid=915rS_DqUC5g1rRkqwiklOdQAW0ZDriO&UserName=Unknown

 

[Force4.6]

As of now, taking the Road Course times from the different mag tests (because that involves all the aspects of the testing)

Ford GT = 2
ZO6 = 1

(although I am counting the test from edmunds)

Doesn't matter how much the GT won by, it still won.

 

[Captain Beyond]

As of now, taking the Road Course times from the different mag tests (because that involves all the aspects of the testing)

Ford GT = 2
ZO6 = 1

(although I am counting the test from edmunds)

Doesn't matter how much the GT won by, it still won.

That's what I'm talking about. :thumbsup:

 

[pr4mncelvr]

Hi Guys old reader 1st time posting. As the owner of 5 mustangs and three trucks/suv's
in the past and present I am definately Ford biased. I've always liked the bang for the buck cars and in this Chevy, Dodge, Ford battle I definately have to give credit to Chevy's Z06.
Even though I love the GT, $ 100K for the same performance and technology........I DON'T THINK SO.
Ford should have at least priced this car around the Vipers range.
When Ford decides to come out with the Shelby Cobra Mustang a lot of people will be bragging how much cheaper it is compared to the Z06.

 

[E. Green Cobra]

Hi Guys old reader 1st time posting. As the owner of 5 mustangs and three trucks/suv's
in the past and present I am definately Ford biased. I've always liked the bang for the buck cars and in this Chevy, Dodge, Ford battle I definately have to give credit to Chevy's Z06.
Even though I love the GT, $ 100K for the same performance and technology........I DON'T THINK SO.
Ford should have at least priced this car around the Vipers range.
When Ford decides to come out with the Shelby Cobra Mustang a lot of people will be bragging how much cheaper it is compared to the Z06.

I don't get the line of thought...
First the Z06 appears to be an awesome car
Second- 3 months ago the GT was and arguably still is the best supercar "bang for the buck"
3rd- as good as the vette is its just a vette, similarly a pullied, tuned, 03 cobra will run with many a supercar- but at the end of the day its just a hotted up mustang.
4th- to price a mustang or vette at 80K, or 100K is comical
5th- I guarantee when you park that vette next to the viper, and Gt, a few performance souls will take a look, while the viper and GT are mobbed

The bottom line is that for the 600K asking price that Ferrari wanted for an Enzo(I believe they went for close to a mil on the market) do you really think the thought that a Zo6 corvette could do similar numbers for nearly half a mil less ever crossed their minds? Probably not...and besides whens the last time you've seen a Ford a) get this much good press, and b) sell for well over sticker in its 3rd year.....

 

[pr4mncelvr]

I don't get the line of thought...
First the Z06 appears to be an awesome car
Second- 3 months ago the GT was and arguably still is the best supercar "bang for the buck"
3rd- as good as the vette is its just a vette, similarly a pullied, tuned, 03 cobra will run with many a supercar- but at the end of the day its just a hotted up mustang.
4th- to price a mustang or vette at 80K, or 100K is comical
5th- I guarantee when you park that vette next to the viper, and Gt, a few performance souls will take a look, while the viper and GT are mobbed

The bottom line is that for the 600K asking price that Ferrari wanted for an Enzo(I believe they went for close to a mil on the market) do you really think the thought that a Zo6 corvette could do similar numbers for nearly half a mil less ever crossed their minds? Probably not...and besides whens the last time you've seen a Ford a) get this much good press, and b) sell for well over sticker in its 3rd year.....

All this does not explain to me why the GT had to be priced so high. Like I said Ford should have at least priced it around the Vipers price......hell, now that I'm thinking about it , they should of priced it around the Vette's price.

 

[50 BMG]

All this does not explain to me why the GT had to be priced so high...

lol-

Paging DBK...explination of build quality between these 3 cars needed.



In addition to that...your just on the budget racer bandwagon. Remember about a year ago when everyone was saying what a spectacular buy the Ford GT was in relation to the competition? C6 Z is no different. People are going to say the same thing about the GT500 in relation to the Z when the day comes, and beyond a straight-line comparison they will be incorrect as was your above quoted statement.

hell, now that I'm thinking about it , they should of priced it around the Vette's price.

You must remember, the Ford GT is now the oldest of the 3 cars being discussed in here...

and would require GM to abandon it's gameplan of waiting till everyone else comes out with their benchmark cars then releasing theirs.

 

[GTSpartan]

lol-

Paging DBK...explination of build quality between these 3 cars needed.

Just for clarification, the viper is built by hand very similar to the GT, except it is all done in house. The production numbers are almost the same over the past few years. The vette on the other hand is built on an assembly line.

 

[Ford GT Fan]

Actually, NO, it does not work that way.

We have to consider rolling resistance, traction force, inertia of other rotating parts (engine and drivetrain), net torque applied to the wheel (includes brakes and gears), friction coefficients, axle loads, weight transfer, brake force distribution, any skid/lookup, etc. As you would expect, the results of the two cars differ, this is largely due to the weight difference because many of these factors have a relationship to weight and its distribution. The overall difference off all these factors working together is shown in stopping distance tests, where the Z06 stops shorter than the FGT in All tests thus far from All speeds.

It would take me forever to type the equations, so you will have to take my word on it or go rent a vehicle dynamics book from the library.

Uhh, I have the books, and I even understand them.

You say "G-forces during braking are essentially irrelevant as they do not directly correlate to which car stops shorter."

Once again, class, pay attention: G-forces directly correlate to which car stops shorter.

(All the factors you mention indeed affect braking, but G-forces, as well as stopping distances, directly measure braking performance.)

 

[E. Green Cobra]

You must remember, the Ford GT is now the oldest of the 3 cars being discussed in here...

and would require GM to abandon it's gameplan of waiting till everyone else comes out with their benchmark cars then releasing theirs.

Ford really threw a wrench in their plans when they canned the 3rd gen L, now they don't know what to do, jump into the performance truck market to take on the dodge, or hold out till/if the L is released so they can "tweak" their big stick :bowdown:

 

[Black99GT]

Braking is slightly exponential, but it is easier to think of it as linear for arguments sake. You are correct that it is slightly exponential though.

What does "slighty exponential" mean?

 

[Formula51]

Uhh, I have the books, and I even understand them.

You say "G-forces during braking are essentially irrelevant as they do not directly correlate to which car stops shorter."

Once again, class, pay attention: G-forces directly correlate to which car stops shorter.

(All the factors you mention indeed affect braking, but G-forces, as well as stopping distances, directly measure braking performance.)

I am a tired of trying to explain. As you have the books and "understand" them, I am sure you have read about instantaneous versus average g-froces. At the drag strip, car A can pull a higher g-force than car B, but still take longer to get to the opposite end of the track because of ALL THE OTHER FACTORS! This is the same idea with the GT and Z06. The GT may have pulled a higher g-force at the onset of braking (assuming they reported instantaneous g-force), but the Z06 stopped shorter. That is what is important, that is the end result, that is all that matters. If they did indeed record average g-forces over the entire braking distance, then we would have to talk about equipment and test setup, etc. How accurate is that little G-meter thing you plug in your cigarette lighter? (get my point).

The bottom line is that the Z06 stopped CONSIDERABLY shorter than the GT in all comparisons of the two cars. That is all you need to know to know the Z06 has SUPERIOR braking performance. On second thought, heat dissipation and any resulting brake fade would be nice to know also.

 

[Formula51]

What does "slighty exponential" mean?

This is my made up lingo for, you can fit a curve to it which shows a slow rate of exponential growth. Thus, it can be reasonably approximated as linear.

 

[Formula51]

I don't get the line of thought...
First the Z06 appears to be an awesome car
Second- 3 months ago the GT was and arguably still is the best supercar "bang for the buck"
3rd- as good as the vette is its just a vette, similarly a pullied, tuned, 03 cobra will run with many a supercar- but at the end of the day its just a hotted up mustang.
4th- to price a mustang or vette at 80K, or 100K is comical
5th- I guarantee when you park that vette next to the viper, and Gt, a few performance souls will take a look, while the viper and GT are mobbed

First - Sure does
Second - 3 months ago the GT was, there's not much arguing that the Z06 is now
3rd - It is just a vette, but it can run with and beat supercars in all performance categories. A hotted up Mustang cannot.
4th - It most certainly is comical. This is probably why GM priced the Vette at $65k
5th - Its not a guarantee, God I wish I had that picture of the Vette and GT next to each other with everyone mobbing the Z06 and no one looking at the GT! (Just to mess with you of course) In general, I agree with you. I would spend more time looking at the GT.

 

[Ford GT Fan]

I am a tired of trying to explain. As you have the books and "understand" them, I am sure you have read about instantaneous versus average g-froces. At the drag strip, car A can pull a higher g-force than car B, but still take longer to get to the opposite end of the track because of ALL THE OTHER FACTORS! This is the same idea with the GT and Z06. The GT may have pulled a higher g-force at the onset of braking (assuming they reported instantaneous g-force), but the Z06 stopped shorter. That is what is important, that is the end result, that is all that matters. If they did indeed record average g-forces over the entire braking distance, then we would have to talk about equipment and test setup, etc. How accurate is that little G-meter thing you plug in your cigarette lighter? (get my point).

The bottom line is that the Z06 stopped CONSIDERABLY shorter than the GT in all comparisons of the two cars. That is all you need to know to know the Z06 has SUPERIOR braking performance. On second thought, heat dissipation and any resulting brake fade would be nice to know also.

I never said anything about instantaneous g-forces.

I was simply responding to your statement "G-forces during braking are essentially irrelevant as they do not directly correlate to which car stops shorter," which is wrong.

 

[Formula51]

I never said anything about instantaneous g-forces.

I was simply responding to your statement "G-forces during braking are essentially irrelevant as they do not directly correlate to which car stops shorter," which is wrong.

That was ment in the context of the g-forces from the article in question. By itself it is a BS blanket statement because I did not specify instantaneous or average g-forces. I thought it was implied that the g-forces in question were instantaneous as we all know the Z06 stops shorter, thus they could not be average g-forces.