blower for 95R
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kevin
New Member
now your editing my posts, eh??????
Here is some insite on choosing a Supercharger.
ATI ProCharger
jetenginedoctor
Moving Apex
Posts: 345
From: Rockingham, NC
Registered: Dec 2000
posted 12-17-2001 08:07 AM
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I was going to put this on the StangNet product review board, but their weak-nut BBS program limits entries to 500 characters. When have I ever been able to rant in under 500 characters, other than to say something charming like "bite my crank."
Oh well, here goes. . .
Pros:
Supposedly makes a lot of boost (on a stock engine.) Supposedly makes a LOT of horsepower (if you can miracle the belt so it doesn't launch itself.) Supposedly has a terrific warranty (it can't break if you can't keep a belt on it.) You can spend some extra money for a decent bracket that'll keep those pesky belts from flying off (but you can't get it from ATI - they haven't figured out how to make 'em right - and you'll have to give up your A/C.) Nice website and flashy ads in the Mustang rags. That's about all.
Cons:
I bought the full-pimp 14/11 psi setup with the billet impeller and 3 core intercooler. I figured I'd have the killer setup, and for what I spent, I should have! However, thanks to the flimsy ATI cast play-doh brackets, belt slippage kept me from making any more than 6 psi of boost, and putting more tension tossed the blower belt (usually killing the accessory belt) any time the engine was under load/boost. We shimmed and experimented with tension, but could never make a belt live more than a couple weeks. I took the problem to ATI, and their solution was to sell me a $300-some dollar 12 rib/17 psi pulley upgrade. Well, that was a joke! The fan spacer was made wrong, and they didn't even give me an idler pulley standoff. I got it all together and was disappointed with the results. With the increased belt traction from the wider belt(s) and the extra load from the increased compressor speed, the silly-putty brackets flexed that much more and tossed belts with aplomb. So much for that.
Above and beyond the absolutely ridiculous bracket and tensioner arrangement, having over 11 feet of plumbing between a MAF and the throttle body is a joke. Installing the MAF in a blow-through config will only work properly if the air charge blows through some sort of diffuser before it reaches the meter, as turbulence and vortecies caused by the air making turns in the tubing bends will cause a MAF to give erroneous readings. The supplied FMU is a fishing weight. I won't even go into where I'd like to shove it.
Summary:
When you pay THIS MUCH for something, no matter what it is, you expect it to be right and perform up to your expectations and the claims of the manufacturer. In the case of the ATI Procharger, this is one product that will leave you asking 'where's the beef?' Search YAHOO! for things dealing with the Procharger, and you'll find that many others like myself have had problems with these systems, and ATI is more interested in trying to sell their band-aids than actually curing the problem. I've spent over $4000 on this belt driven pain in the butt, and it STILL hasn't performed as it should. I suppose I'll have to bite the bullet and ditch my A/C and do a proper bracket for it, which won't be fun as I live in the South. I'm disappointed that ATI doesn't take a more proactive approach toward taking care of its customers problems, rather than blaming the system's inadequacies on the customer. Instead of spending all that money suing Vortech, they should have put some dollars toward R&D to build brackets that don't flex, tensioners that work properly, and employees who will take care of the customer before AND after the sale! Because of their cavalier attitude toward all of their customers, I'm breaking my 5 year silence and telling it for what it is. Applied Technical Inferiority. Thanks a bunch, ATI. . .
Keith
ATI ProCharger
jetenginedoctor
Moving Apex
Posts: 345
From: Rockingham, NC
Registered: Dec 2000
posted 12-17-2001 08:07 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was going to put this on the StangNet product review board, but their weak-nut BBS program limits entries to 500 characters. When have I ever been able to rant in under 500 characters, other than to say something charming like "bite my crank."
Oh well, here goes. . .
Pros:
Supposedly makes a lot of boost (on a stock engine.) Supposedly makes a LOT of horsepower (if you can miracle the belt so it doesn't launch itself.) Supposedly has a terrific warranty (it can't break if you can't keep a belt on it.) You can spend some extra money for a decent bracket that'll keep those pesky belts from flying off (but you can't get it from ATI - they haven't figured out how to make 'em right - and you'll have to give up your A/C.) Nice website and flashy ads in the Mustang rags. That's about all.
Cons:
I bought the full-pimp 14/11 psi setup with the billet impeller and 3 core intercooler. I figured I'd have the killer setup, and for what I spent, I should have! However, thanks to the flimsy ATI cast play-doh brackets, belt slippage kept me from making any more than 6 psi of boost, and putting more tension tossed the blower belt (usually killing the accessory belt) any time the engine was under load/boost. We shimmed and experimented with tension, but could never make a belt live more than a couple weeks. I took the problem to ATI, and their solution was to sell me a $300-some dollar 12 rib/17 psi pulley upgrade. Well, that was a joke! The fan spacer was made wrong, and they didn't even give me an idler pulley standoff. I got it all together and was disappointed with the results. With the increased belt traction from the wider belt(s) and the extra load from the increased compressor speed, the silly-putty brackets flexed that much more and tossed belts with aplomb. So much for that.
Above and beyond the absolutely ridiculous bracket and tensioner arrangement, having over 11 feet of plumbing between a MAF and the throttle body is a joke. Installing the MAF in a blow-through config will only work properly if the air charge blows through some sort of diffuser before it reaches the meter, as turbulence and vortecies caused by the air making turns in the tubing bends will cause a MAF to give erroneous readings. The supplied FMU is a fishing weight. I won't even go into where I'd like to shove it.
Summary:
When you pay THIS MUCH for something, no matter what it is, you expect it to be right and perform up to your expectations and the claims of the manufacturer. In the case of the ATI Procharger, this is one product that will leave you asking 'where's the beef?' Search YAHOO! for things dealing with the Procharger, and you'll find that many others like myself have had problems with these systems, and ATI is more interested in trying to sell their band-aids than actually curing the problem. I've spent over $4000 on this belt driven pain in the butt, and it STILL hasn't performed as it should. I suppose I'll have to bite the bullet and ditch my A/C and do a proper bracket for it, which won't be fun as I live in the South. I'm disappointed that ATI doesn't take a more proactive approach toward taking care of its customers problems, rather than blaming the system's inadequacies on the customer. Instead of spending all that money suing Vortech, they should have put some dollars toward R&D to build brackets that don't flex, tensioners that work properly, and employees who will take care of the customer before AND after the sale! Because of their cavalier attitude toward all of their customers, I'm breaking my 5 year silence and telling it for what it is. Applied Technical Inferiority. Thanks a bunch, ATI. . .
Keith
Last edited:
Supercharged
I have a e-mail address of [email protected]; he has had all three of his R's (93, 95, & 00R) blown, maybe he can help answer a few question you might have. Just thought i'd help. Let me know on your progress.
I have a e-mail address of [email protected]; he has had all three of his R's (93, 95, & 00R) blown, maybe he can help answer a few question you might have. Just thought i'd help. Let me know on your progress.
points
New Member
Hey guys,
i just got a bunch of info from ATI today in the mail, and i do have to admit that the bracket looks pretty weak from the pictures. it probably wouldn't be real tough to make a nice one out of .5" aluminum, that would be a lot stronger than stock one. There is a guy on the NLOC board that is selling a half inche bracket for vortech blowers now, it looks pretty stout.
Jason Brown
94' Lightning - #1928
i just got a bunch of info from ATI today in the mail, and i do have to admit that the bracket looks pretty weak from the pictures. it probably wouldn't be real tough to make a nice one out of .5" aluminum, that would be a lot stronger than stock one. There is a guy on the NLOC board that is selling a half inche bracket for vortech blowers now, it looks pretty stout.
Jason Brown
94' Lightning - #1928
Dean95CobraR - brackets are different, also no a/c makes it a pain.
Points3 - Remember you need at least five - six more pounds of " boost" 351 is a little bigger. My first 8lb blower made 3.5-4! I called ATI, Vortech/Paxton. and also sent emails, No response on email so they all suck on the internet, by phone I got a polite no from Vortech. ATI Sent me a catalog!!! I had a 351 in a 93. As soon as you mention 351 you get all sorts of weird BS from these guys. Good Luck I went back to a 302 sized block tro many restrictions with a 351 at the track.
R-CODE _ My god I love to shake the guys hand who had 3 blown every R, I quess he is magazine shy He would make it for sure..........:rolling:
Points3 - Remember you need at least five - six more pounds of " boost" 351 is a little bigger. My first 8lb blower made 3.5-4! I called ATI, Vortech/Paxton. and also sent emails, No response on email so they all suck on the internet, by phone I got a polite no from Vortech. ATI Sent me a catalog!!! I had a 351 in a 93. As soon as you mention 351 you get all sorts of weird BS from these guys. Good Luck I went back to a 302 sized block tro many restrictions with a 351 at the track.
R-CODE _ My god I love to shake the guys hand who had 3 blown every R, I quess he is magazine shy He would make it for sure..........:rolling:
Well, IF I was going to supercharge my '95R, which I'm not, the above info would definitely make me reconsider my initial choice.
ATI> :burn: <ME
Thanks for all the info guys!
ATI> :burn: <ME
Thanks for all the info guys!
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Remember it takes about 50HP to spin a Vortec blower at 10PSI
You get about 13HP per pound of boost 13X10 =130HP more than you have now if all you do is mount the blower, no can or anything else. Thats 130 HP with perfect condition, cool air etc. The blower heats up air fast, you will loose 40 HP when the intake air goes up to 140F. I can prove it on a chasis dyno.
My S351 intake air temp went from 80 to 170 in one mile full throttle blast. Now you experience detonation you cannot hear and other stuff like heating the crap out of the oil, it goes through the S/C
My point is 130HP minus the 50HP to spin it leave you a net 80HP
You will need a engine management unit like a PMS as well.
Put a ported set of twisted Wedge heads and a good Cam from Anderson Motorsport or one of the trick flow cams and you will get over 100 HP with a less BS and be more reliable, drive better etc.
My Saleen picked up 70 HP at the wheels by porting the heads and using Andersons B3 cam, it idled great too. It also showed less boost because it flowed much better
You get about 13HP per pound of boost 13X10 =130HP more than you have now if all you do is mount the blower, no can or anything else. Thats 130 HP with perfect condition, cool air etc. The blower heats up air fast, you will loose 40 HP when the intake air goes up to 140F. I can prove it on a chasis dyno.
My S351 intake air temp went from 80 to 170 in one mile full throttle blast. Now you experience detonation you cannot hear and other stuff like heating the crap out of the oil, it goes through the S/C
My point is 130HP minus the 50HP to spin it leave you a net 80HP
You will need a engine management unit like a PMS as well.
Put a ported set of twisted Wedge heads and a good Cam from Anderson Motorsport or one of the trick flow cams and you will get over 100 HP with a less BS and be more reliable, drive better etc.
My Saleen picked up 70 HP at the wheels by porting the heads and using Andersons B3 cam, it idled great too. It also showed less boost because it flowed much better
Terry,
What would you think about porting and polishing the heads on a 2000 R? and installing some higher duration and higher lift CAMs? I am contemplating this upgrade in the future, but for obvious reasons, I am taking great care to become fully educated on this? My mechanic thinks we can gain 40-50 more HP at the rear wheels? That would certainly be very cool, but I am concerned about any negative side effects this may have.
One thing I am NOT concerned about is keeping the car stock. I've already done many enhancements and plan to do more. So, here are my questions to you or anyone else who can answer them?
1) do you know what the lift and duration is on our CAMs?
2) how much more aggressive can we go with and still have the darn thing idle ok?
3) I assume doing this upgrade would also require a chip remapping? ie: more fuel to go with the higher duration and lift?
4) how would this (if at all) affect overall reliability of the engine?
If my guy is right?, this means my car would make about 410-420 HP at the wheels and be close to 500 at the crank! Whew!! and with no blower or NOS. Now, that would be cool!!!
Thoughts on this?
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