RBB can you post a pic of how close it is idk if the Kenne Bell has more or less clearance since it’s the 4.7 but would like to know before purchasing to see if I have to go a different route
Built Engines
- Thread starter manny231988
- Start date
RBB can you post a pic of how close it is idk if the Kenne Bell has more or less clearance since it’s the 4.7 but would like to know before purchasing to see if I have to go a different route
Dang Poisonous correct me if I misunderstood so are you telling me with the J2 fab and KB there is no way to route the 1inch I’d hoses without rubbing? I’m gonna run the 4 inch pulley as I have a 10% percent lower. How much is it to go the route your going with the 3D printed stuff ?
Is there any reason you have to use the OD crank pulley with the 4" supercharger pulley instead of stock crank pulley with 3.75" pulley?
The smaller the supercharger pulley, the more clearance.
I am not home at this moment but if my KB has a 4" pulley instead of 3.75". I would end up having only 6mm clearance between the supercharger belt (.25" = 6.35mm then divided by 2 = 3.175mm).
My custom design IC tube with clear everything no matter what pulley size. It is the IC outlet tube needs more work.
Only reason really is I already had the ATI when I sent it to get built and don’t have the stock lower anymore so I just left it on.
OK. My custom design IC OUTLET tube will clear your KB (with 4" pulley) by ~ 6mm. The lower inlet tube will clear everything regardless ANY brand supercharger, any size supercharger. Because the IC water inlet tube is routed in between the pulley and the front aluminum timing cover.
As you can see in the below picture. The hardest part is to have enough clearance between the IC water outlet tube and the supercharger belt with a 1" tubing.
Let me know if I can help in your case if you really want to go this route. The upper water outlet bend is NOT 90 degree but at 70 degree. So maybe I can change that to maybe 80 degree to gain another 1mm clearance (EVERY mm count in this case).
My objective for this custom design is to have something looks clean with the least welding required, and strong enough to handle all the NVH issue. The cost to 3D print just these 4 pieces in aluminum is NOT CHEAP and I am designing everything by myself.
My objective for this custom design is to have something looks clean with the least welding required, and strong enough to handle all the NVH issue. The cost to 3D print just these 4 pieces in aluminum is NOT CHEAP and I am designing everything by myself.
Dang you have put thought into this for sure so how much are we talking about to get these pieces ?
Also how do the pieces attach at the intercooler ?
- 1st, You need to buy 2 Earl's -16AN cap just like what I have in the picture. Since the cap is blocked so they need to drill a thru hole (I forgot what size the thru hole was but I will need to measure it since I need to drill the lower -16AN cap for the IC water inlet tube).
- 2nd, after the Earl's -16 AN cap drilled, attached it to the J2 Fab new aluminum CNC water manifold and mill (remove / cut) down 2.5mm - you only need to mill down 1 -16 AN cap. As you can see in the picture, my Earl's -16AN cap has a thru hole. Also notice the shinny portion of the cap, that's where the mill (cut) 2.5mm.
- My custom design water inlet & outlet 3D print aluminum tubing has a cup design to go OVER (slip onto) the Earl's -16AN fitting. TAs you can see in the picture, the back end of each tube has a "cup" so the Earl's -16AN fitting drops in. Then weld the 3D printed aluminum tube to the -16AN fitting together.
It cost me MORE than 1K USD JUST to 3D print 4 pieces in aluminum (4 pieces to complete the 1" routing system assuming you use the stock IC water reservoir) and I am not even counting 2 additional test fitting pieces (also printed in aluminum) just for this project.
To gain room for the two -12 lines exiting my intercooler Fischer Motorsports supplied this accessory belt idler pulley relocation bracket. This is 3D printed aluminum and it moves the accessory belt away from the hoses. Also my intake manifold is 3/8" higher in location due to the phenolic insulation spacers between the cylinder heads and the manifold. This moved my outlet ports of the intercooler higher in relationship to the stock arrangement. You may want to contact Fischer if you need some extra room to clear the accessory belt
Here is a picture of the 3D printed aluminum idler pulley bracket.
Here is a picture of the 3D printed aluminum idler pulley bracket.
I emailed them to see what the price of that thing is wish I could afford the whole setup but I’m so deep in this build I just need to get it going before I lose interest, both you and poisonous setups are awesome
Hi Bad Company, did Shawn Fischer supplied with 2 new over size (larger ID) IC cross over tubes with his mod or you have to reuse the original OEM IC cross over tubes?
So Fischer emailed me back and said 950 for the new idler that would make room for the bigger lines about the same price for both setups
The main issue is NOT the clearance between the IC upper outlet 1" water rubber hose to the accessory drive belt and I can prove that. It is the clearance the 1" aluminum tubing to the supercharger belt.
Hey poisonous I’m defenitely not questioning you at all I actually like your design much better, I even think the Fischer design is nice but don’t know if it would provide enough clearance as they use -12 AN fittings and J2 uses -16, only thing about yours is I don’t know how to weld so I would have to find someone that would do it as you mentioned you have to drill a hole in fitting and weld the 3D printed pieces to the fitting
I did the drilling on the -16 AN Earl's cap myself using a very cheap drill press from Harbour Freight. And like you I DON'T know how to weld so I have to find someone who can finish the final welding of the (2) 3D printed aluminum tubing to the (2) -16 AN cap.
There is a way to cut the cost by about 30%.
ONLY 3D printing the 2 water tubes which weld to the -16 AN caps.
The steel T fitting with 1" main flow and a 3/4" spout can be bought for $12 from any auto part store. Then weld the KB steel AN fitting to the steel T fitting.
The last T fitting involves more work (frabication) which at the end cost very similar to the a 3D printed part.
The reason I 3D printed all 4 pieces is because I want a matching set that looks just like from the factory with the Least weld require.
I am not home until late tonight so I can not post any CAD pictures to show why the issues is NOT the clearance between the IC upper outlet 1" ID rubber hose to the accessory drive belt. Remember a typical 1" ID rubber hose has a 4mm thick rubber. Then add in an additional 1mm for the clamp thickness.
Hi Guys
To clarify, on our base package we run a -16 in the back and use the stock tubes and a modified neck out the front (equivalent to the cross section of one -16 fitting). This effectively changes the core to a single pass where the entire water column through the core is fresh IC water. The other designs on the market are dual pass. Our base setup in single pass will flow equivalent to or higher depending on the core's water restriction than a -16 dual pass. In addition to the base setup we also offer a -20AN inlet (largest needed for the core) and offer either dual -12AN outlets, dual 1", or dual -16AN outlets... This would flow more than the other systems on the market.
On after market cooling systems, a single pass setup will flow cooler water and lower IAT's because the entire core is flowing fresh water from the pump, rather than a dual pass flowing once through half the core, picking up heat and then flowing back through the other half of the core again once it is already hot. Dual pass makes sense on a radiator, it has merit on a stock IC cooling system and volume which is why Ford designed it that way, however, it does not make sense on higher flowing, larger volume, upgraded systems, especially when running ice water.
Summation: A dual pass -16 in and a -16 out system will flow the same or less than a single pass -16 in and two -12's out. A -20 in and two -16's out will flow the most and single pass is the only way to achieve this.
I have an extremely good snapshot of our MoTeC data showing how well the Hot Water Bypass system works on a mile run. I don't want to step on any other supporting vender's toes or post outside of the forumn's policies. My response here may already be pushing site/vender policies. Maybe an admin can advise on if it is acceptable to post the data image and anlaysis description here or if maybe Bad Company can post it?...
Cheers!
It is good to hear from the master Shawn Fischer to explain why the single pass is better than the double pass design.
The main reason I choose the J2fab IC mod (1" inlet and 1" outlet double pass design) is because someday in the future when I rebuild my motor. I would convert the 1" double pass design into a 1.25" single pass design (2 x 1" ID has very similar cross sectional area of 1.25").
The way I would design is:
* Re-use the (2) 1" 3D printed aluminum tubings since it clear everything in the front.
* CNC 4 additional pieces:
# 1st piece which has a large hole (bigger than 1.25"and gas a step) would welds to the back end of the Bigun IC. The back end of the Bigun IC would have to be drill / cut for the water exits.
# 2nd piece is an all new cross over tube which has a ID of 29mm (1.25" tubing at 16 gauge would have an ID of 28.6mm).
# 3rd piece is just a base block with a large hole to clear the new larger cross over tube and has (4) M6 holes. This base block would weld to the back of the intake manifold. In order to do this, the rear manifold engine coolant passage casting needs to cut out.
# 4th piece is a simple aluminum block with drill holes at 90 degree. One end of the hole will have a 1.25" aluminum tubing welded. This piece would bolts to the 3th piece.
Just imagine the back of the IC had a similar set up just like the front.
The only thing I don't like the Shawn Fischer design is that the way the IC is weld to the intake manifold due to the -16 / -20 female AN fitting welds to the intake manifold. If the Bigun IC has an external leak which happens to quite a few people already. The only way to remove the Bigun IC is to cut out all the weld at the back.
Shawn supplied the fitting block for the two -12 hoses at the front of the intake manifold. They use the stock diameter tubes between the IC and the outlet fitting at the manifold. I thought about having new ones made with a larger ID for more flow volume, but didn't. The reason for this is this is the restriction point of the complete system and I wanted to have a pressure differential between the supply side of the pump and the return side and these tubes are the restriction in the system to do this. Now you may ask why I did this? I am using the complete IC system for my cooling of the KB LC supercharger. I was afraid if I reduced the flow restriction by increasing the diameter of the IC tubes that I wouldn't have a pressure differential to supply coolant flow to the supercharger. Basically the coolant wouldn't flow between the supply side of the IC system and the return side through the SC without something creating a head pressure.
In a perfect set up you would install a separate cooling system and HE for the SC, I didn't feel like spending anymore money for a full out race set up for street use.
Hey Shawn
Good to see you lending some advise on this set up. If you want you can email me the data logs and then I'll see if I'm smart enough to post them
Kurt
Users who are viewing this thread
