Can't get desired aligment with MM equipment

[johnny-longtors]

I need some suspension help - I've just installed a bunch of MM parts and cannot align the car to my liking, and even the best setting I can achieve result in interference.
2001 Mustang GT chassis
MM K-Member, A-arms (standard offset), and CC plates
Koni DAs with MM coil-overs

Even with the standard offset A-arms the wheels look pushed forward ~3/4"

With the CC plates pushed ALL THE WAY forward and ALL THE WAY outboard the best I can get is -1.7 camber (wanted between -1.2 and -1.5) and +7 caster (can get +6.8 on passenger side). Toe is not an issue.

At these settings the CO springs are hitting the outside edge of the shock tower.

The car has no structural damage and the ride hide is only MILDLY lower than stock.

The K-member is a modified (by MM) unit designed to work with the Hellion turbo kit. Sadly, I have no idea what modifications they made.

I have spoken to 3 different people at Maximum Motorsports and gotten 3 different answers, none worthwhile. I have not heard back form Hellion, but expect little as they are really not strong on tech.

Is there anything I can do with another spindle? I'm totally at a loss here.......
TIA
Don

 

[BADBOYSPACK]

You can losen the front sub frame and get a little adjustment out of it.

 

[ShelbyGuy]

i'd take it to an alignment shop where they've actually done a mustang or two before. adjust camber at the bottom of the strut where it meets the knuckle before trying to move the c/c plates.

who is telling you that you want 7 degrees of caster? without adjusting the bump steer you will have made the car unstable with that much caster.

of course there's no problem with toe. that gets set last. if you cant get caster and camber right, you wont get toe right either.

i suspect the problem lies between the alignment rack and the toolbox.

 

[johnny-longtors]

i'd take it to an alignment shop where they've actually done a mustang or two before. adjust camber at the bottom of the strut where it meets the knuckle before trying to move the c/c plates.

The work was done in part by a Ford tech who is familiar with Mustangs. We did this after hours at a FoMoCo dealer. We just could not see a way to get any play at the knuckle...

who is telling you that you want 7 degrees of caster? without adjusting the bump steer you will have made the car unstable with that much caster.

I wanted it bewtween 3 & 5 - I should have been clear. 7 is the _lowest_ we can get it to go... I have a full bump-steer kit and a compliment of rack bushings to get everything straight.

i suspect the problem lies between the alignment rack and the toolbox.

Totally possible as there are a ton of aftermarket parts at play here. I'm looking into the spacers and bearing plates on the CC plates. It's been suggested that I may have them on backwards.

The worst part of this is that the phone tech folks at MM have been of no help - my past experiences (maybe 4 years ago) were great... but they seem rather clueless at troubleshooting thier own parts these days... If anyone knows a particular body I should talk to please post up....

Thanks guys -
Don

 

[ShelbyGuy]

the spacers on teh c/c plates are to get the shock in the middle of its travel. as you lower the car, you reduce bump travel. raising the top of the shock, relative to the top of the strut tower, gives the shock its normal range of travel back.

couldnt get any play at the knuckle? thats how the cars are aligned stock. the stock upper strut mount is held in place with a rivet, not just bolts. in order to set camber on a stock car without c/c plates, you adjust it where the strut meets the knuckle. they also make "camber bolts" which are eccentric bolts to help get the negative camber out of lowered cars.

you cant get LESS than 7 degrees out of it? weird. something aint right. like the poster above mentioned, perhaps its an issue with the aftermarket k-member not being within tolerances.

i dont know of a particular person to talk to, but a tram gauge and the body measurement sheet out of the shop manual would be a great place to start.

im less apt to rag on the tech right now given what you've described. something aint right somewhere and now im inclined to think its either the k-member or its placement under the car.

see what a body shop wants for an hour on the frame rack.

 

[AMB]

johnny-longtors

You can swap the MM CC Plates from side to side get more/less CAMBER !! I hade to do this when I changed to the Griggs !!


AMB

 

[FOURCED]

The tires will be pushed 3/4" forward as the MM k-member with the standard offset a-arms move the wheelbase forward by 3/4". If you opt for the offset a-arms then the wheelbase goes abou 1 1/2" forward and that really would cause some fender rubbing problems

Did you make sure to square the k-member in relation to the chassis? I'm sure this was done but it could cause the symptoms you're stating. The k-member should be square to the rear control arm attachment points (where rear control arms bolt up/or IRS subframe front attachment points). You should have used a plumb bob to get the K square... measuring front to back and then diagonally as well.

ShelbyGuy I too am wondering what you are referring to as far as setting camber where the strut meets the steering knuckle? I took the shocks loose last night (taking springs out) and when I loosened up the bolts from the strut to the knuckle there wasn't much of any play there whatsoever. As far as I can visually tell the holes in the knuckles have no "oblong" shape to them. There might be at best 1/16" of play in between the two when the bolts are loose. What am I missing here exactly?

Hope this helps some Don.



Shannon

 

[Mr. Mysti]

ShelbyGuy I too am wondering what you are referring to as far as setting camber where the strut meets the steering knuckle? I took the shocks loose last night (taking springs out) and when I loosened up the bolts from the strut to the knuckle there wasn't much of any play there whatsoever. As far as I can visually tell the holes in the knuckles have no "oblong" shape to them. There might be at best 1/16" of play in between the two when the bolts are loose. What am I missing here exactly?

Hope this helps some Don.



Shannon

I have herd of this before also, yet I have no play between my strut and knuckle and the bolts are about the same size as the holes they go into. I'm sure you could get something out of eccentric bolts, but the stock ones are not eccentric.

 

[ShelbyGuy]

top hole in the strut is oval while the bottom one is round.

 

[tractioncontrol]

He is right, you can gain or lose a half of a degree of camber with the strut bolts. Lift the car on the jack points, loosen the bolts, get a helper to pull on the top of the tire as you tighten it. That will not stop the rubbing though, that is caused by the caster. If it was my car I would try swapping sides on the caster camber plates. I am a little unsure of the k-member setup due to the various choices when purchasing them (stock mounts, suspension upgrades etc) but some k-members push the tire forward 3/4" to gain caster.
If everything else (motor etc) fits correctly, I would think it is in the caster camber plates.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The CC plates can be installed in a negative "race" configuration and a positive "street" configuration. Do you have them in the "street" configuration?

Pictured is the positive configuration. Notice that the part that sticks out on the top plate (closest to master cylinder) points to the INSIDE of the car.

Just swapping the top plates from driver to passenger side changes this configuration. The MM stickers always go towards the front.

From the specs you provided, it sounds like they are in the negative position.

You don't get any caster adjustment from the strut to spindle bolts. Eccentric bolts are available, but you shouldn't need them with your setup.

You aren't going to be able to get the caster angle you want until you get your camber dialed in.

The MM K moved the wheels 3\4 towards the front of the car on its own, so that is normal.

Ashley

 

[johnny-longtors]

Thanks for all the input guys. Sadly the answer is much simpler - the struts I was sold (and have paid TrueChoice an assload of cash to rebuild and modify) were not those for an SN-95 Mustang but are for a FOX-III chassis. It's now a matter of drilling / elongating the holes to (hopefuly) get them to fit correctly.

I did learn a useful bit of trivia - in the FOX-III era all Konis were built from Ford stock struts. If the body of the strut has a Ford part number clearly visible, it's a FOX-III part. This is straight from TrueChoice.

 

[ShelbyGuy]

thanks for posting the solution, johnny-longtorso!

 

[SoCalHarley]

I am resurecting this old post.... I just went for an alignment as I need to drop my steering rack and I have the same problem. This is the least amount of positive caster Right 7.25 and Left 6.5. Negative camber the least amount Right 1.75 neg and Left 1.125 neg. I figured it was just the plates needed to be moved which I haven't got to yet... but now seeing that his struts were wrong anyone got any ideas on this. I think just moving the base plate would fix it but does anyone else have this issue?
Thanks