Downshifting to First

[TemplateType]

When I first got this car, I was never able to get it into first above about 20mph. Then I read this from the 2013 Mustang owners manual:

Do not downshift into position 1 when your vehicle is moving faster
than 15 mph (24 km/h). This may damage the clutch or transmission.

I did not see any warnings like that in the GT500 supplement manual and I had read another user an this forum saying he had shifted to first doing about 30mph before, so I am wondering if it only applies to the other mustang transmissions. I have been noticing that double clutching makes it much easier to get down into any gear, so I gave it a try with first gear today at about 25mph and it went right in. So the question is: is it safe to down shift this tremec 6060 to first at speed? Is double clutching needed for it, or did I just need to wait longer for the synchros to match speeds? I am still pretty new to how all these parts work, so hopefully this is not an embarrassingly stupid question.

 

[ThomasL]

The owners manual is garbage for these cars. It also recommends shifting into 5th at something absurd like 43mph. Since these cars reach over 60mph in 1st, I wouldn't think a downshift around 30 would be all that bad I just wouldn't do it often. I'm curious about this though as i've never really tried or had the need to make a down shift like that into 1st.

 

[BrunotheBoxer]

Personally I never downshift to 1st.

 

[Troponin]

Personally I never downshift to 1st.

Me neither. Stems back to being taught that you really don't need first unless you're coming to a complete stop, and it's more work than it's worth.

 

[2011 gtcs]

I have done a couple 20 rolls and downshifting into 1st, never seem to hurt anything

 

[TemplateType]

For those saying they do not downshift to first, is it because there is some reason to think it might cause damage or is it just an inconvenience? I would think if you were on a low speed turn on a road course or autocross, or if you just wanted to punch it from a roll, it would be useful to have the extra power available in first gear.

 

[BrunotheBoxer]

For those saying they do not downshift to first, is it because there is some reason to think it might cause damage or is it just an inconvenience? I would think if you were on a low speed turn on a road course or autocross, or if you just wanted to punch it from a roll, it would be useful to have the extra power available in first gear.

See post #4.

 

[Pete Grimaldi]

See post #4.

Agreed!

Pete

 

[mnewxcv]

exactly. first is for starting from a stop. however if youre rolling slow enough to want to be in first to hit it from a roll, just rev match the shift and it shouldnt be a big issue.

 

[raustin0017]

With 600 HP / lbs of torque....2nd gear is what I use unless I'm stopped. I never need to use 1st unless coming to a complete stop.

 

[Troponin]

With 600 HP / lbs of torque....2nd gear is what I use unless I'm stopped. I never need to use 1st unless coming to a complete stop.

lol Even with my stock GT, I still don't feel the need to shift in to first. I bet with 600hp, 2nd starts to feel like first.

Some of it is finesse with the clutch and throttle too. I can pull out in second without lugging the engine or riding the clutch hard. I learned to drive a stick by pulling out without using the throttle at all, a feat some people have told me that is impossible until I show them. When I taught my little bro to drive a stick, I taught him to do the same, and when my brother told our dad how I was going to teach him, our dad said "Bobby, you can't pull out without the throttle, just let me teach you" lol

Anyway, I suppose if you're racing, first gear could be an option, but it's a fine line between time lost with shifting vs the extra tq first will offer.

 

[Cman01]

It wouldn't be something that I would do all the time. Most times 2nd is fine to have it in gear just before you need to accel. but if you do d/shift to 1st make damn sure you blip the throttle to match revs before letting out the clutch or you could seriously damage stuff.

 

[Bad Company]

I've downshifted to first at fairly high speeds, roughly 35-40 mph. Now the reason is to have the engine in the RPM band to facilitate a smooth transition of power at the sweet spot in the RPM range of the engine while taking on a cloverleaf on ramp with a posted safe speed of 20mph at 50mph and higher at corner exit. I feel that keeping the engine at the higher RPM allows me to balance the car comfortably while accelerating around the sweeping curve of the ramp to the exit of the corner. Yes, I heel and toe to enter the ramp in first gear and match engine RPM to the gear I want. Yes, I'll have to shift quickly on corner exit to 2nd gear. But I feel that holding first gear through the long sweeping turn gives me more control of the car in the mid-portion of the corner. This allows me to carry more speed through this mid-section of the corner to have the higher exit speed to begin with. Can it be done in 2nd gear? Sure, but will my exit speed be as fast? I don't think so. Now what about the guys with built engines that can turn 7800 RPM? Do you think that they'll want to be in first or second if they can hold the gear longer than a stock engine on corner exit? Downshifting and upshifting is nothing more than matching the engine RPM to the road speed and the work being performed at that moment. These cars have synchronizes for each and every gear to facilitate easy shifts without matching engine RPM to the gear and road speed. Every tractor trailer you see on the road today doesn't. Some of the modern trucks will have a computer to do the shifting for the driver(matching RPM and road speed to the gear for the work load of the engine), but it is still a mechanical gear box without synchronizes. To drive a truck with a standard transmission you either learn quickly how to match engine RPM to the road speed and work you want to do or you don't drive the truck. To heel and toe a GT500 to bring the RPM up to match the RPM to the gear with road speed of the car is much easier on the internal parts of the transmission, along with less chance of upsetting the balance of the car and the traction of the tires with the pavement at high speeds

 

[mullens]

Downshifting to 1st at speed is also very hard on the clutch and puts quite a strain on internals. Just not a good thing to do IMO.

 

[Bad Company]

This is what heel and toe is for............matching engine RPM to the gear you are selecting with the road speed you're traveling at that moment in time. Do it correctly and you don't even need to use the clutch. This is called float shifting and is practiced by 95% of the truck drivers on the road today that don't have synchronizers in the manual transmissions of the trucks they drive. The other 5% double clutch every shift performing the same function of matching engine RPM to the gear chosen at that road speed.

Use the same practices of matching engine RPM/gear selection/road speed and you have no extra wear and tear on the car. An experienced truck driver can get a million miles out of a manual non-synchronized transmission without a gear/clutch/driveline failure. Why do you think a car transmission can't?. Truck transmissions are know as synchro-mesh this is because they don't have a friction ring in the synchronizer to speed up or slow down the gear you are choosing. They have what is know as a sliding clutch. This is nothing more than a steel ring which the shift fork moves with an inner and outer spline that engages both the mainshaft of the transmission and the gear. As it is moved into neutral from one gear to the next the driver must raise or lower engine RPM with the clutch engaged/locked to match the gear speed so the sliding clutch will engage the next gear. Otherwise it will grind and be a missed shift.

Synchronizers in a car manual transmission are nothing but a friction surface that does the same thing. Match gear speed to engine RPM and road speed..........and you have no wear on the transmission. If you're good at this you will not have any extra clutch wear either. Why? Because you are releasing the clutch at a matched engine RPM with the gear and road speed also.

Now if you don't match these components of the shift than you are putting a strain on everything in the driveline, whether it is downshifting from sixth to third at 65mph or third to first at 35mph

 

[Cman01]

Not matching revs as you d/shift can also lock up your rear axle and cause a crash and is more of a requirement when you shift into the lower gears from higher ones (especially if you skip gears as you d/shift).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0tekS8r4qU

 

[mnewxcv]

if you downshift ever, you should rev match. No reason not to, and it saves wear and tear.