Riddlaontheroof said:
:nonono: :nonono: :nonono:
I hope someone, somewhere, has enough $$ to open a trial to fight against this
EDR's are spying on us (must see video)
- Thread starter 1BADGT500
- Start date
:nonono: :nonono: :nonono:
I hope someone, somewhere, has enough $$ to open a trial to fight against this
i have heard of these on gm vehicles a few years ago. i'm not sure if ford has them or not.
I just looked up the WV statutes and it doesn not appear to be illegal to remove or disable an edr here.
One might say that if you have nothing to hide then you have no reason to be concerned. I'm sure that would have gone over well with the guy who had his supermarket club card purchase records show up in court showing he was buying a lot of booze on a regular basis and obviously if he purchased that amount of liquor he must have been drunk when the crime occured (I forgot what the case was about, but you get the idea).
I would start with the following assumptions:
- I think it would be very unlikely even the dealer would be able to flash-disable it.
- It has firmware that was likely written by the same types that write code for the PCM.
- It is all solid-state; it has a CPU of some type, I/O chipset, memory and drivers to fire the airbags (assuming it is the airbag control module too).
- You could probably find one in a junk yard to cut open and Google around for the chip ID's to get started, assuming it isn't bathed in epoxy which it might be.
- It's unlikely you can disable the log without getting into the code.
- The module has no real value after the airbags are deployed. Meaning, if the device was readily accessible....or it was damaged in the right way (via some distructive force, automated or otherwise)... no device, no data.
Someone with ready access to a junker on the EDR list should get the unit and cut it open and post the hires pics for us to review..
I would start with the following assumptions:
- I think it would be very unlikely even the dealer would be able to flash-disable it.
- It has firmware that was likely written by the same types that write code for the PCM.
- It is all solid-state; it has a CPU of some type, I/O chipset, memory and drivers to fire the airbags (assuming it is the airbag control module too).
- You could probably find one in a junk yard to cut open and Google around for the chip ID's to get started, assuming it isn't bathed in epoxy which it might be.
- It's unlikely you can disable the log without getting into the code.
- The module has no real value after the airbags are deployed. Meaning, if the device was readily accessible....or it was damaged in the right way (via some distructive force, automated or otherwise)... no device, no data.
Someone with ready access to a junker on the EDR list should get the unit and cut it open and post the hires pics for us to review..
Well, I need to track down the one on my L.
SID297-
Nice find. Thanks for the post. Interesting that Ford took it out of Mustangs in 2005 and it is in no Ford vehicles in 2006.
Nice find. Thanks for the post. Interesting that Ford took it out of Mustangs in 2005 and it is in no Ford vehicles in 2006.
Florida Chris said:
I'm betting it was a cost cutting measure.
1999snake said:
NOTE: This is not a list of ALL vehicles that have EDM's, this is simply a list of vehicles that have one that can be accessed (for information retrieval) by thier software systems....
If you read the first few lines it clearly states that other EDR's used on other vehicles may not be able to be accessed by their system (or something to that effect).
They list the 2004 Mustang and I am sure that all Mustangs have them now so this is only a partial list of vehicle's with EDM's which are compatible with their computer software.....
I do believe that all GT500's have one in it and all Mustangs for that matter.
The dealers do not access these for information. These are accessed whenever there is a fatality and an accident investigator is assigned to the case to investigate the accident.
One thing that scares me is the difference in estimated speeds and what the EDR said.... 50, 50-70 etc by the traffic investigators and the EDR said the guy was doing 100 mph.
If you look at the damage to the front end of his camaro (80's Iroc-Z I believe) and the side of the other car which his hit broadside with the two girls in it you can see that there is NO WAY he was going 100 mph. The damage would have been much more severe.
Was he speeding? Yes I would say he probably was but I don't know the speed limit in that case.... if he was doing say 50-70 in a 35 or 45 mph speed limit then this is even more of a tragedy than meets the eye for all involved.
Was he negligent in this case? It sure looks that way but 30 years to life for this accident because the EDM said he was travelling at 100 mph?
How is the speed monitored and does changing the tire size and gearing affect the speed which is logged into the EDM and if so would they even take that into consideration at your trial? I doubt it, they would take it for face value accurate or not and use this against you unless it showed that you were travelling at the posted speed limit but one of their "Experts" said that your vehicle was speeding at the time of the crash in which case they wouldn't even bring up the EDM because it's all about a conviction in cases like these.
How reliable is the EDM?? who knows but if he was convicted for hitting another car at 100 mph when he was really only going 15 or 20 over the posted speed limit (i.e. 50 in a 35 zone or 60-70 in a 45 zone) then how do you feel about having one of these in your car monitoring your car in a crash?
I don't like them and I don't like that they are put there against my wishes in my own car wihtout my permission or knowledge prior to purchasing the car.
I hope they got a court ordered search warrant to access the info because if they didn't and his lawyer didn't object to the retrieval without one then he was not well defended by his counsel.
I would certainly like to disconnect or disable mine if possible because these are not yet mandated by state or federal law so they are not required equipment as of yet as far as I know (if I am wrong please point me in the right direction so I can varify it).
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wals9331 said:
By the same logic anyone that builds/sells an O/R pipe would also be liable. If possible, there are ways around this issue, making the customer tighten the last screw on the device for instance--thereby making them the manufacturer--or making them for "off road" use only.
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According to several sites, Ford began working with Vetronix in 2000 and started installing them in certain 2001 vehicle.
scary world we live in
***in computers are taking over the world like in Terminator!!!
***in computers are taking over the world like in Terminator!!!
Interesting information here:
http://www.motorists.com/
IMHO any law that attempts to limit access to the data is insufficient. All the bills that I have read that attempt to do that, have a clause right in them that the limitation can be overcome via court order.
The bill listed as being proposed on the motorists site has a provision that as of 2009, the owner must be able to disable the recording aspect of the cdr. I guess they need to give the mfgrs time to incorporate an "off" switch.
Let's hope it passes.
Maybe some of us, (all of us?) can become more involved to make sure it happens.
http://www.motorists.com/
IMHO any law that attempts to limit access to the data is insufficient. All the bills that I have read that attempt to do that, have a clause right in them that the limitation can be overcome via court order.
The bill listed as being proposed on the motorists site has a provision that as of 2009, the owner must be able to disable the recording aspect of the cdr. I guess they need to give the mfgrs time to incorporate an "off" switch.
Let's hope it passes.
Maybe some of us, (all of us?) can become more involved to make sure it happens.
Id rather have no airbags, I vote, take it out.
IMO if you are against such a thing you are thinking about getting away with murder and not thinking about the other guy that just killed your two kids. If the device states facts(in question also) then so be it. Be man enough to stand up to your mistake. Now if it ever leads to a device that gives you a ticket everytime you speed we are in big trouble!! -Shane
mysticsvt said:
You have a valid point. The flip side is, little by little we're losing our privacy.
mysticsvt said:
Everything starts off like this.... they slip little things like this in on us "on the sly" (or for our own good of course) or maybe as a pilot program but with a hidden long term agenda which will no doubt bring them financial gain at our expense.....
Remember the rental car co. (Budget or Hertz maybe? I can't remember) which had little black boxes installed so they could charge you for going over a certain speed or breaking your rental contract (which they knew you would never read anyway) etc...
First they get them installed and then later mandated by law and soon just accepted by the public for a particular use or value and once they've accomplished that then they move on to the hidden agenda which of course nobody wants or likes but by then it is simply too late....
So sorry ... so sad ...
They wouldn't dare try to implement something right off the bat which everyone would be against, that's just not good business sense (like shooting yourself in the foot).
They simply figure out a use to which they will get little or no objection to, implement it until it has become "the standard" or mandated by the government and then they open up pandora's box and unleash the beast within. How convenient!
If it doesn't benefit them financially, the government's (CIty/County/State/Federal) not going to be very interested in it.
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