Ethanol and E85 Might Do More Environmental Harm then Good

[JSpeed]

The effects of making large quantities of Ethanol are far reaching and tremendous. As I read this article it started to look like a disaster in the making.

Please read:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070311/ap_on_sc/ethanol_q_a

 

[baldNittos04]

Interesting article, still very speculative

 

[Mr. Mach-ete]

There are pros and cons on every subject under the sun. I feel that we must do something, anything, to rid us of the dependency of middle eastern oil. This country has the capability to produce corn like no other.

 

[wvmystichrome]

One con about the ethanol production is the cost of meat of all types are going to rise. I read an article yesterday saying that Corn supplies for consumption and for feeding livestock are going to fall tremendously because all the companies that are buying it up for ethanol production. They said many cattle, poultry and prok farms would be cutting back on their herds because there will not be enough corn to feed them. Who really knows.

 

[99cobrablack]

Water is the biggest issue, the plants in Iowa, Illinois ect. don't have the problem but any refinery west of the Missouri River is a problem (In my eyes) the amount of water it takes to produce ethanol is outragous. You get out here where there is a shortage of water where states sue each other for using too much and its not good. The water is scarce for crops in the first place, let alone the water for the ethanol plants.

 

[TrueBlueGT]

That article is looooaaaded with inaccuracies, assumptions, and just plain bs about the effects of ethanol production. Taking into account the greenhouse gases produced & chemicals used during the production phase of corn shows a ridiculously biased point of view (or simply an effort to stir up those unaware of modern agricultural process). Yes, production produces greenhouse gases & uses chemicals but the caveat to the scenario is the fact that those acres would be in production anyway (most likely - but not necessarily - in corn). The benefit to the producer as a result of ethanol production is a higher quantity demand for his product which = higher commodity prices. Either way, the commodity would be grown and said gases would be expelled....at least this way, the producer makes more money & we loosen the stranglehold if ever so slightly that OPEC has on us.

Yes, it is going to impact food prices. You don't reallocate ~12.5% of production capacity to a different venue without having some reverberations through the rest of the market. What we may see is more of the previously non-tilled acres (conservation reserve program or CRP) taken out of reserve and put back into production.

I could go on about this but don't feel like typing more right now. As a final thought, the author discussed the negative aspects of ethanol. One of the listed negativities was 'social unrest' in mexico over increased prices of tortillas which are a staple food. I don't know about the rest of you red-blooded americans, but I'm so goddamn sick of all the pandering to mexico/mexicans that I could scream. Fck mexico. Send all the illegals back there & let them grow their own goddamn food. I'd take a more stable fuel supply over anything mexico has to offer the US.

[steps off soap box]

I'm going to get some more coffee now.....


PS: WVmystic....don't get too wound up about meat prices yet. We'll do what we've always done when the price of one feedstuff increases....feed something else. In this case, milo is becoming a much more popular feedstuff but it too has it's use in the ethanol industry. As I said, there will be reverberations through the economy. It all stems from our insatiable & ultimately unsustainable thirst for fuel. In the grand scheme of things though, the american consumer spends less than 12% of his/her per annum income on food. That % is by far the very lowest in the world and, although prices will go up some as a reaction to increased production prices, it won't be economy-collapsing type increases.

 

[THX 138]

solar panels on roof of every building and parking lot in the southwest. Manadtory plug-in hybrid car production. US energy problem solved.

 

[junk94]

That article is looooaaaded with inaccuracies, assumptions, and just plain bs about the effects of ethanol production. Taking into account the greenhouse gases produced & chemicals used during the production phase of corn shows a ridiculously biased point of view (or simply an effort to stir up those unaware of modern agricultural process). Yes, production produces greenhouse gases & uses chemicals but the caveat to the scenario is the fact that those acres would be in production anyway (most likely - but not necessarily - in corn). The benefit to the producer as a result of ethanol production is a higher quantity demand for his product which = higher commodity prices. Either way, the commodity would be grown and said gases would be expelled....at least this way, the producer makes more money & we loosen the stranglehold if ever so slightly that OPEC has on us.

Yes, it is going to impact food prices. You don't reallocate ~12.5% of production capacity to a different venue without having some reverberations through the rest of the market. What we may see is more of the previously non-tilled acres (conservation reserve program or CRP) taken out of reserve and put back into production.

I could go on about this but don't feel like typing more right now. As a final thought, the author discussed the negative aspects of ethanol. One of the listed negativities was 'social unrest' in mexico over increased prices of tortillas which are a staple food. I don't know about the rest of you red-blooded americans, but I'm so goddamn sick of all the pandering to mexico/mexicans that I could scream. Fck mexico. Send all the illegals back there & let them grow their own goddamn food. I'd take a more stable fuel supply over anything mexico has to offer the US.

[steps off soap box]

I'm going to get some more coffee now.....


PS: WVmystic....don't get too wound up about meat prices yet. We'll do what we've always done when the price of one feedstuff increases....feed something else. In this case, milo is becoming a much more popular feedstuff but it too has it's use in the ethanol industry. As I said, there will be reverberations through the economy. It all stems from our insatiable & ultimately unsustainable thirst for fuel. In the grand scheme of things though, the american consumer spends less than 12% of his/her per annum income on food. That % is by far the very lowest in the world and, although prices will go up some as a reaction to increased production prices, it won't be economy-collapsing type increases.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I know our projected corn crop this year is something in the range of 3-4 times larger then last year. Guys are taking cotton out and planting corn in its place.

The place I see it hurting is the special crops. Non GMO beans is one area. Why would guys go through the trouble to raise non GMO's when they can plant corn and get 4+ bucks for it. Its going to be a crazy year at our river terminals with all the corn this year, but this is just on black ink on white paper. We will see how things go in about 6mths

 

[SnkBtn99]

Isn't breathing air hazardous to your health?

 

[Ride Along]

True blue beat me to it. I work for a company that produces ethanol (for now only in France, but our Iowa plant used to produce it), and I wasn't aware of any dangerous byproducts. We use everything, it isn't like we take the ethanol out and dump the rest into the Mississippi. I saw two separate studies that cited the energy output ratio at 1.6. We use byproducts in animal feed and other products. Our artificial sweetener process uses more dangerous chemicals than the ethanol production lines do. The article definately stops and makes you think, and I'm not saying I'm pro-ethanol, but to say, "If you make ethanol from corn, the environmental benefits are limited. When you consider the greenhouse gases that are released in the growing and refining process, corn-based ethanol is only slightly better with regard to global warming than gasoline." is a broad statement. I don't see any sources cited in his article. I just worry about folks reading this, and telling their friends that ethanol will ruin our environment.

link to a good page with some facts about ethanol:

http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/altfuel/eth_energy_bal.html

 

[Double"O"]

Isn't breathing air hazardous to your health?

i heard that breathing air and swallowing your own saliva are the leading causes of cancer these days

 

[harry gilbert]

Personally, I like ethanol. Why waste it by burning it in a car? I'd rather drink it!

 

[ElGato]

"Some even argue that it takes more energy to produce ethanol from corn than you get out of it, but most agricultural economists think that's a stretch. "

The "ethanol is a net energy loss" crowd are citing research that takes into account the solar energy used to produce the corn. anyone else see this as a problem?

 

[wvmystichrome]

That article is looooaaaded with inaccuracies, assumptions, and just plain bs about the effects of ethanol production. Taking into account the greenhouse gases produced & chemicals used during the production phase of corn shows a ridiculously biased point of view (or simply an effort to stir up those unaware of modern agricultural process). Yes, production produces greenhouse gases & uses chemicals but the caveat to the scenario is the fact that those acres would be in production anyway (most likely - but not necessarily - in corn). The benefit to the producer as a result of ethanol production is a higher quantity demand for his product which = higher commodity prices. Either way, the commodity would be grown and said gases would be expelled....at least this way, the producer makes more money & we loosen the stranglehold if ever so slightly that OPEC has on us.

Yes, it is going to impact food prices. You don't reallocate ~12.5% of production capacity to a different venue without having some reverberations through the rest of the market. What we may see is more of the previously non-tilled acres (conservation reserve program or CRP) taken out of reserve and put back into production.

I could go on about this but don't feel like typing more right now. As a final thought, the author discussed the negative aspects of ethanol. One of the listed negativities was 'social unrest' in mexico over increased prices of tortillas which are a staple food. I don't know about the rest of you red-blooded americans, but I'm so goddamn sick of all the pandering to mexico/mexicans that I could scream. Fck mexico. Send all the illegals back there & let them grow their own goddamn food. I'd take a more stable fuel supply over anything mexico has to offer the US.

[steps off soap box]

I'm going to get some more coffee now.....


PS: WVmystic....don't get too wound up about meat prices yet. We'll do what we've always done when the price of one feedstuff increases....feed something else. In this case, milo is becoming a much more popular feedstuff but it too has it's use in the ethanol industry. As I said, there will be reverberations through the economy. It all stems from our insatiable & ultimately unsustainable thirst for fuel. In the grand scheme of things though, the american consumer spends less than 12% of his/her per annum income on food. That % is by far the very lowest in the world and, although prices will go up some as a reaction to increased production prices, it won't be economy-collapsing type increases.

I agree with most of all you said. I was talking about an article that I had just seen the day before about meat producers complaining about shortages OR proposed shortages. Look at Brazil they now are 100% fully functioning on Ethanol produced from their own corn. I hope the US will be able to be 0% dependant on foreign oil in the future. I know we will have higher prices on somethings as it is a cost consideration that is acceptable if it keeps us from being held hostage by foreign oil.

 

[ElGato]

Look at Brazil they now are 100% fully functioning on Ethanol produced from their own corn. I hope the US will be able to be 0% dependant on foreign oil in the future. .

Instead we'll be held hostage by foreign ethanol. Bush is pulling some sort of deal with Brazil as we speak. Looking for link.:read:

 

[T-Bolt]

Ethanol rocks. What some people don't realize is that it has an octane rating of 105. You know what that means; more boost!