Fence Post Experts - Driven Posts vs Handset Concrete Posts?

[Booky]

I am looking at a couple different fence companies in Wisconsin to install my 6' privacy vinyl fence.

One of the companies drives industrial strength steel pipe 4' into the ground and then installs the vinyl posts over the top with brackets.

They told me they switched from using concrete to this method several years ago because it is much stronger.

Anyone familiar with this method of setting posts and can verify if it is indeed better/stronger than handset concrete posts?

 

[HillbillyHotRod]

do not know if stronger but a concrete post will break if hit hard enough where a metal one will bend.

 

[Junior00]

Wood means upkeep, and with you covering them in vinyl I’d be worried about moisture being trapped and rotting posts at an accelerated rate. The coatings of today are not as good imho as those of old, pressure treated lumber just doesn’t last as long as 30 years ago.

Solid soil and galvanized steel posts set deep will last your lifetime. Both will work, but if you’re going vinyl I’d skip the wood and follow their method honestly.

 

[Coiled03]

Have yet to see fence posts set in concrete where the concrete didn't eventually break, and leave the post wobbling around.

 

[HEMIHUNTER]

4’ ?
So they’re using 10’ poles for a 6’
fence?
Your soil in Wisconsin is probably a lot stouter than here (FL) where we use concrete and they last.
When we set temp fences around our job sites the fence sub. Drives them in and pulls them out by hand, that’s how soft the soil is here.
How big are your posts


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[Brutal Metal]

I used a 60 lb bag of concrete for each vinyl post on my install, it stood up just fine with the 120 mph hurricane last year.

 

[HillbillyHotRod]

One thing I have noticed about the vinyl around here is it tends to get mildew on. Most likely because there is higher humidity here but ugly green mold on white vinyl looks bad.

 

[Weather Man]

If they drive them 4 feet in, they are not going anywhere. You can buy the vinyl cleaner that you mix with bleach and spray on with a 2 gallon tank sprayer and then power wash off, stuff works great.

 

[Booky]

4’ ?
So they’re using 10’ poles for a 6’
fence?
Your soil in Wisconsin is probably a lot stouter than here (FL) where we use concrete and they last.
When we set temp fences around our job sites the fence sub. Drives them in and pulls them out by hand, that’s how soft the soil is here.
How big are your posts


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I think they are about 9' posts. The steel post does not have to come all the way to the top of the 6' vinyl outer post.

I found this video and I think this is similar to what they do:

 

[derklug]

It really all depends on your soil. My first house would have had to have poles driven in 20 feet to get beyond the sand. My present house, 4 feet would be fine.

 

[HEMIHUNTER]

I think they are about 9' posts. The steel post does not have to come all the way to the top of the 6' vinyl outer post.

I found this video and I think this is similar to what they do:

That’s exactly how temp fence is done here.
Residential permanent fence is installed w/ post hole diggers and bagged concrete
Where you live and considering they’re driving 3’ plus should be fine


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[Need 04 Wine]

It really all depends on your soil. My first house would have had to have poles driven in 20 feet to get beyond the sand. My present house, 4 feet would be fine.

This....

My current place is high and dry post 2' in the ground are more solid then my last(current rental property) place. There I used 10'x4"x4" and washed rock in a 8" hole. Washed rock allows for flex and earth movement, and keeps wood "drained". Been 7 years now, after first season i added some more washed rock and pounded a couple back down with a post maul.

 

[Biff-Mach1]

If i was you i would go with a cinder block wall with galvanized posts driven atleast 4' into the ground on every 6 foot section. Plus depending on your soil, add concret and/or gravel to bottom of the post under the ground. Also make sure atleast 6 inch of the cinder block is in the ground. Then where the posts are inside the cinder blocks add cement. Guarantee you wont have any issues. Plus of you dont like the way the cinder blocks because its gray and boring then you could alaways add wooden fencing or add stone tile or add a 3/4 inch layer of cement with texture and paint it.

 

[Malern28us]

Whats the price difference?
We just had an acre of fencing done and I watched them pound in the fence posts with a post pounder. They have new equipment that can vibrate the post into the ground that literally takes 15 second to put a 8x8 post in the ground.
The quote for pounding the posts in was $1200 cheaper than digging and pouring concrete. Just saying.

 

[Equalbracket]

Lol Need a beltec to get below 20 inches here, fill with pea gravel rinse repeat.

 

[Brutal Metal]

I think they are about 9' posts. The steel post does not have to come all the way to the top of the 6' vinyl outer post.

I found this video and I think this is similar to what they do:

I used NO steel piping like those videos, like I said dug a hole, put a 60lb bag of concrete in it and laid the vinyl post in , done...
The last side of my yard that had wood didn't fair as well when the hurricane rolled through..

 

[Brutal Metal]

Whats the price difference?
We just had an acre of fencing done and I watched them pound in the fence posts with a post pounder. They have new equipment that can vibrate the post into the ground that literally takes 15 second to put a 8x8 post in the ground.
The quote for pounding the posts in was $1200 cheaper than digging and pouring concrete. Just saying.

Does that process require the steel inserts that the vinyl post goes over?

 

[Booky]

Whats the price difference?
We just had an acre of fencing done and I watched them pound in the fence posts with a post pounder. They have new equipment that can vibrate the post into the ground that literally takes 15 second to put a 8x8 post in the ground.
The quote for pounding the posts in was $1200 cheaper than digging and pouring concrete. Just saying.

The price was about the same or maybe even a little more because of the cost of the 2" steel posts and the brackets that have to be used for each post vs a couple bags of concrete.

I emailed multiple fence companies around the Madison/Janesville area and the responses I received were mixed. A couple companies already use the steel post method, a couple companies will use either method and the rest still set the posts in concrete.

The companies that drive the 2" steel posts claim they went to this method because it helps to prevent the posts from heaving and is as strong or stronger than the set in concrete.

The companies who set in concrete think the driven steel post method is just to save time and labor and feel concrete is still the best method.

Neither one has any documentation that one method is better than the other. I really think it comes down to how well the posts are set, not which method is used.

 

[Malern28us]

I used NO steel piping like those videos, like I said dug a hole, put a 60lb bag of concrete in it and laid the vinyl post in , done...
The last side of my yard that had wood didn't fair as well when the hurricane rolled through..View attachment 1467598 View attachment 1467599 View attachment 1467601

I haven't ever been to Florida and I definitely am no professional fence installer...lol.
Just know the soil and the freezing tendencies up here.
I did see a video, when I was researching to do my own fencing that was produced by Oklahoma University (I think) that suggested 12" below the frost line, fill with gravel (I don't remember the size or type...not a professional) and only put a concrete cap on around the post to prevent erosion and rotting of the post.
I think our frost line up here creates a whole set of problems you don't have in Florida. Just like we don't get hurricanes.

 

[Malern28us]

The price was about the same or maybe even a little more because of the cost of the 2" steel posts and the brackets that have to be used for each post vs a couple bags of concrete.

I emailed multiple fence companies around the Madison/Janesville area and the responses I received were mixed. A couple companies already use the steel post method, a couple companies will use either method and the rest still set the posts in concrete.

The companies that drive the 2" steel posts claim they went to this method because it helps to prevent the posts from heaving and is as strong or stronger than the set in concrete.

The companies who set in concrete think the driven steel post method is just to save time and labor and feel concrete is still the best method.

Neither one has any documentation that one method is better than the other. I really think it comes down to how well the posts are set, not which method is used.

Since you are from the same general area, I looked into renting my own post driver. I believe there are places around Columbus and Dayton to rent them (just was looking closer to me). If you can find a local Co op that has them, they rent out their post drivers for $1/post plus $50/day. I am talking if you wanted to just drive 3.5" square posts into the ground.
Hell, you can rent a metal post driver to drive your own 2" inch metal posts for around $50/day. You just have to have help getting it started.
I don't know much about vinyl fencing as I had 4", 6" and 8" posts driven in around my property. They had to put them in 36" deep. I went with agricultural fencing with woven wire because I had to find a way to keep my dogs corralled since I live on a major highway. Way different than vinyl fencing but same concept with posts.