First time out with the Fox

wieduwilt

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It was an interesting night - and somewhat disappointing. For some reason (and I'm thinking tune), the car is retarding timing and making the rev limiter come about 800rpms sooner than it should. The rev limiter is set to 6300, but tonight the highest I saw was 5800, and the lowest was 5500.

This made it all the more difficult because I was forced to put the car in 5th to cross the line.

My first run was terrible. I don't even want to say what it was. I spun way too much off the line, and once it hit the rev limiter way early, I gave up and coasted across the line in neutral.

The second run was better, a 13.1, but still terrible.

I talked to a local tuning guy who's with Dynospeed, and he's thinking that my intake temps are too high. The PO has a very safe tune that he put on the car, and down here it's much warmer and more humid, so I really think the car needs a new tune done down here in TN to adjust to the climate change. Also, having no intercooler doesn't help either. So, I'm looking into a meth kit.

So, I left a bag of ice on the intake for about 30 minutes, then on the supercharger for about 30 minutes as well. Here's what happened:

While I was warming up the tires, there was no rev limit at all. Letting off the foot brake and goosing it sent the rpms to about 6800. But, by the time the light went green, it went back to red lining early. It was a decent launch (2.0 60'), but the red line in 4th was still about 110mph, when it should be 123mph. So, using fifth gear for the later portion of the track, I manage to run a 12.2.

I'm not happy at all with that time. So, I know I need a new tune. I could use a meth kit and some 3.55's as well (PO hit the top if 4th before he crossed the line at 123mph). What are y'all's thoughts?
 

Prototype007

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What kind of ignition system are you running? Did you pull the plugs after making a pass?

If it's hitting what feels to be a "limiter" an it's not staying at the same exact rpm every time, it makes me think you're having ignition/spark breaking down or experiencing detonation.

Assuming the gauges in your sig is in the same car, did you notice anything funny about the fuel pressure in the higher gears?
 

wieduwilt

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What kind of ignition system are you running? Did you pull the plugs after making a pass?

If it's hitting what feels to be a "limiter" an it's not staying at the same exact rpm every time, it makes me think you're having ignition/spark breaking down or experiencing detonation.

Assuming the gauges in your sig is in the same car, did you notice anything funny about the fuel pressure in the higher gears?

I pulled the plugs last night. They all looked okay, but with small traces of white residue on them.
 

19935.slow

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Can't tell anything from the plugs if you drove the car afterwards. Do you have an aftermarket tach? I highly doubt that car sees 6800. Especially if your looking at the factory tach. It wont keep up with the rpms of a vortech at all.

Sounds like valvesprings to me. The car can't retard timing and bump the rev limiter up. Valve float can happen at diff rpms at diff loads for sure.

And for future advice. Non intercooled foxes will heat up and pull timing fast and slow down. If you drive to the track let it cool off before running and cool it between rounds. Sounds like you did though.
 

wieduwilt

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Can't tell anything from the plugs if you drove the car afterwards. Do you have an aftermarket tach? I highly doubt that car sees 6800. Especially if your looking at the factory tach. It wont keep up with the rpms of a vortech at all.

Sounds like valvesprings to me. The car can't retard timing and bump the rev limiter up. Valve float can happen at diff rpms at diff loads for sure.

And for future advice. Non intercooled foxes will heat up and pull timing fast and slow down. If you drive to the track let it cool off before running and cool it between rounds. Sounds like you did though.

Yes I have an aftermarket tach. It didn't go to 6800 while making a pull, but while I was heating up the tires before my last run (when I had the bag of ice on it).
 

wieduwilt

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Is it in the 10's before it breaks up?

I wouldn't call it breaking up. It's not like a misfire or anything. It literally feels and sounds like the rev limiter. Right now I'm attributing it to the tune. PO did his own tunes on the car and it is a VERY safe tune for a much cooler, less humid climate. I'm thinking the climate down here is what's causing the problem. The car ran extremely well driving back down from NY.
 

wieduwilt

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Another thing I do have to mention is that when I came home after the track and checked the plugs, the clamp inside the spark plug wire for cylinder #8 was loose. When I tried to pull the wire off the plug, the wire came off but the metal clamp that attaches the plug to the wire stayed on the tip of the spark plug. That being lose could have caused the problem, but I still think the main issue is having a super rich tune.
 

wieduwilt

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A/F stays the same all through the RPM band at WOT. Also, fuel pressure stays normal.
 

BLK93GT

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It did the same thing when I 1st got the car together but at a little lower rpm and I dropped the plug gap and it revved clean. I think easiest way to tell is drop gap down to .023 maybe and see if it goes away. Install the Crane HI6 and open gap up and it will be good too Id bet.
 

wieduwilt

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It did the same thing when I 1st got the car together but at a little lower rpm and I dropped the plug gap and it revved clean. I think easiest way to tell is drop gap down to .023 maybe and see if it goes away. Install the Crane HI6 and open gap up and it will be good too Id bet.

The plugs are gapped at .025 right now. Should I go down to a lower gap? Say, around .020?

I did some more reading and found out that the stock ignition systems are maxed out over 400hp. I think that may be the problem because at lower RPMs, like 4500-5500, at WOT it doesn't cut out. But, when I hit around 10 PSI at after 5500 it starts to cut out. It makes sense.

Also, I wasn't sure how I felt about the Hi-6. It's used, and I've heard that MSD is better to go with. So, I got a deal on an MSD 6AL. It's on its way now. I'm gonna be installing that, I also ordered another set of Motorcraft 9mm plug wires to get rid of the bad wire.
 

BLK93GT

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The plugs are gapped at .025 right now. Should I go down to a lower gap? Say, around .020?

I did some more reading and found out that the stock ignition systems are maxed out over 400hp. I think that may be the problem because at lower RPMs, like 4500-5500, at WOT it doesn't cut out. But, when I hit around 10 PSI at after 5500 it starts to cut out. It makes sense.

Also, I wasn't sure how I felt about the Hi-6. It's used, and I've heard that MSD is better to go with. So, I got a deal on an MSD 6AL. It's on its way now. I'm gonna be installing that, I also ordered another set of Motorcraft 9mm plug wires to get rid of the bad wire.

Actually the Crane is a way better unit with an infinitely adjustable rev limiter. The car had an MSD on it when I bought it and I sold it. If you take apart the two units and looks at the internals you will see why. The failure rate on the MSD is much higher. The stock ignition is usually fine for quite a bit of power I've never had any issues in any of the foxes I have had. Go post up on corral.net asking about MSD or Crane trust me. I didn't know about the plug wire before that may be part of it. That sucks those are nice wires lol. You can fix that wire by getting a new end and crimping it on. I got those wires because they have the lowest resistance.
 

wieduwilt

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Actually the Crane is a way better unit with an infinitely adjustable rev limiter. The car had an MSD on it when I bought it and I sold it. If you take apart the two units and looks at the internals you will see why. The failure rate on the MSD is much higher. The stock ignition is usually fine for quite a bit of power I've never had any issues in any of the foxes I have had. Go post up on corral.net asking about MSD or Crane trust me. I didn't know about the plug wire before that may be part of it. That sucks those are nice wires lol. You can fix that wire by getting a new end and crimping it on. I got those wires because they have the lowest resistance.

I got the MSD because there are a lot of people around here running them with no problems. I've read a lot of good reviews on them. But, I'd the MSD craps out on me, I'll throw the Hi6 in.
 

BLK93GT

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I got the MSD because there are a lot of people around here running them with no problems. I've read a lot of good reviews on them. But, I'd the MSD craps out on me, I'll throw the Hi6 in.

They are common, just not the best or I would have kept mine lol. Have to change rpm pills, bigger size, and not as reliable. The Crane has a better rev limiter and easier to mount hence why I went with that. Not many crane failures at all. The MSD distributors are junk my cousin had his grenade. Don't let anyone talk you into one.

Normally the stock ignition is good for 500hp + easy. Seen it many times over the years and did it myself. But adding a box with allow a larger gap.
 
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wieduwilt

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They are common, just not the best or I would have kept mine lol. Have to change rpm pills, bigger size, and not as reliable. The Crane has a better rev limiter and easier to mount hence why I went with that. Not many crane failures at all. The MSD distributors are junk my cousin had his grenade. Don't let anyone talk you into one.

Normally the stock ignition is good for 500hp + easy. Seen it many times over the years and did it myself. But adding a box with allow a larger gap.

What gap should they be set to after the MSD is installed?
 

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