Future boss with an n/a 5.8L?

[tt335ci03cobra]

Anybody think it would be awesome/feasible that the next variation of the boss became a boss 351 and had an n/a version of the new gt500 motor?

Being aluminum, weight wouldn't be too bad, and if the design integrated a 10.5+/1 compression with a 7k redline, it could easily make 550hp n/a and be a strong contender as the ultimate road race mustang.

Imagine a 3550# leguna model with launch control and 550hp/500tq... It would easily out pace even a zl1 camaro in a drag race and possibly carry a higher top speed.

Anyways, feel free to bring up reasons why it's not feasible/a bad idea, I wanna make buzz with the idea in case the right eyes from ford see the buzz and consider it in a future design/proposal meeting

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

I would like to see them put a better connecting rod, wrist pin, and different cams in the 5.0 Boss, and then tune it to an 8K red line with optional race trim capability to 9K. Then fix whatever else breaks or needs tweaking/fixing during durability testing.

The resulting power increase would be similar to an NA 5.8 but would have the more advanced coyote architecture and variable cam timing, and when not being revved to the moon would get better fuel economy.

I love the light weight of the coyote based engines, the specific output and potential for FULL TILT BANZAI race applications.

The 4.0 BMW V8 is an 8K engine.

Thoughts?

 

[Nathan'sTsi]

I am sure they will offer a Boss 351 eventually. Who knows which block/family it will be based on.

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

An 8k boss 302 is very plausible as the current one hits 7500 with ease. This is a great idea. This line up would be legendary:

335hp v6 with requisite chassis/drivetrain improvements

445hp (7250rpm) gt with ""

475-490 (8250+rpm) boss 302 ""

550hp (7250+rpm) boss 351 ""

650+hp (7000+rpm)gt500 ""

850hp supersnake ""

 

[5 DOT 0]

The current Boss 302R in unrestricted Grand Am GS trim is run up to 8,200-8,300 RPM and is putting out close to 500 HP . My bet it the 2014 Boss 351 uses the 5.8 in the 2013 GT500 sans blower and puts out 500 HP at 7,000 RPM.

 

[BOOSTD5.4]

I am saving my pennies NOW!

A BOSS 351........ AWESOME!

Mike

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

I think if we do see a Boss 351 it will also be a 2013 S197 and not a 2014 new chassis platform.

Ford and Porsche both tend to really do up the top models of the last editions at the end of a chassis design run, in this case the S197. The SN95 ended with the Terminators and Mach 1s.

I'll be surprised if they keep using the DOHC 5.8L 2013 engine for very long, what with smaller displacement high output turbos being as fuel efficient and powerful as they are.(have cake and eat it too) I think the top output engine will eventually be a twin turbo version of a very high revving 5.0L Coyote/Boss.

I do think the new 5.8L will enjoy a long successful life in the FRPP catalog though, as well as the improved parts it has that can be used on other engines in that family.

 

[ponyboyisaac]

If they raised the rpms on the boss 302, put direct injection like its designed to use, and up the compression I think we would see some great gains without to much cost. 500hp n/a mustang from the factory is pretty realistic now a days.

 

[TXPD]

the 95 cobra r was built to grand am gs class specs it won races and championships. the 2000 cobra r was not built to the specs for a race class and was never effectively raced at all.

the current boss 302r is built to grand am gs specs. the boss 302S is built to world challenge gts specs. the class specs for these classes are not going to make a significant jump in hp and so any 500hp+ boss 351 project would not be supported by the available programs. you cant have the ultimate road race car when it has no place to race and prove it.

try to keep that in mind. to my knowledge the current boss engine is already restricted in both grand am and world challenge. piling further horsepower will just be a waste of time.

 

[Fat Boss]

If the Ford Racing guys are saying, "history is repeating itself" then they very well could make a 351 car with the 2014 model year. I for one would love to see it. Love seeing all new HiPo Fords. Great info on the Boss 351 here:1971 Ford Mustang Boss 351 | Hemmings Motor News

 

[5 DOT 0]

I think if we do see a Boss 351 it will also be a 2013 S197 and not a 2014 new chassis platform.

You're assuming the new platform will be a 2014. What if it's a 2014 1/2?

 

[chuckstang]

I would like to see them put a better connecting rod, wrist pin, and different cams in the 5.0 Boss, and then tune it to an 8K red line with optional race trim capability to 9K. Then fix whatever else breaks or needs tweaking/fixing during durability testing.

The resulting power increase would be similar to an NA 5.8 but would have the more advanced coyote architecture and variable cam timing, and when not being revved to the moon would get better fuel economy.

I love the light weight of the coyote based engines, the specific output and potential for FULL TILT BANZAI race applications.

The 4.0 BMW V8 is an 8K engine.

Thoughts?

not sure if you are aware that the current boss 302 can already turn 8k rpms no problem

 

[TXPD]

i dont get the heat for a boss 351. the boss 302 was built to homologate body and performance parts for the trans am series and resulted in a championship. the boss 351 was a blvd cruiser that was much heavier and not built for a racing series. the boss1 is to the boss2 what a 69/70 Shelby GT350 was to a 65 GT350.

 

[5 DOT 0]

i dont get the heat for a boss 351. the boss 302 was built to homologate body and performance parts for the trans am series and resulted in a championship. the boss 351 was a blvd cruiser that was much heavier and not built for a racing series. the boss1 is to the boss2 what a 69/70 Shelby GT350 was to a 65 GT350.

I agree with you but that doesn't mean Ford won't make a 351. Personally I hope they are done with the Boss name in 2013.

 

[Nathan'sTsi]

i dont get the heat for a boss 351. the boss 302 was built to homologate body and performance parts for the trans am series and resulted in a championship. the boss 351 was a blvd cruiser that was much heavier and not built for a racing series. the boss1 is to the boss2 what a 69/70 Shelby GT350 was to a 65 GT350.

I think most enthusiasts don't care for historically accurate, they just want more "go". If a 444hp Boss is fun, then a 500hp one would be even better

 

[rezcobra]

i dont get the heat for a boss 351. the boss 302 was built to homologate body and performance parts for the trans am series and resulted in a championship. the boss 351 was a blvd cruiser that was much heavier and not built for a racing series. the boss1 is to the boss2 what a 69/70 Shelby GT350 was to a 65 GT350.

It did well in Nascar. Engine builders found ways to alter the stock heads to where they were flowing excellent and thus getting the heads banned from Nascar. But in drag racing the 351 was king for several years under Bob Glidden. But then he could build just about any engine to put out its max... an some!

 

[TXPD]

more go. to what end? thats my point. ford and ford racing have done a strong job of building a complete business model around their mustang road racing program. starting with the fr500c and s and progressing to the boss 302 r and s, ford developed turn key race cars that generate aftermarket component business at ford racing and specialty model street cars at ford motor division.

its comprehensive and its entirely based on the race cars racing. build a street car that replaces the race cars and is not legal to race and the entire structure fails. a boss 351 in the 500hp range would not fit into either the grand am gs class or the world challenge gts class.

thats my whole point. there's a lot more involved than one street car model.

 

[Grant808]

I would like to see them put a better connecting rod, wrist pin, and different cams in the 5.0 Boss, and then tune it to an 8K red line with optional race trim capability to 9K. Then fix whatever else breaks or needs tweaking/fixing during durability testing.

The resulting power increase would be similar to an NA 5.8 but would have the more advanced coyote architecture and variable cam timing, and when not being revved to the moon would get better fuel economy.

I love the light weight of the coyote based engines, the specific output and potential for FULL TILT BANZAI race applications.

The 4.0 BMW V8 is an 8K engine.

Thoughts?

No way. The BMW is an 8k engine because it has less than 3" stroke...and way undersquare. I'm glad Ford went to 7,500+ with the 5.0 with the architecture as is.

I'm not wishing for more displacement next year, but if they do bump up to 351 cubes, I'd like to see more torque mostly...the HP can be 450 and I'd be good if it still revved past 6,800 and had say 440+ TQ stock.

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

more go. to what end? thats my point. ford and ford racing have done a strong job of building a complete business model around their mustang road racing program. starting with the fr500c and s and progressing to the boss 302 r and s, ford developed turn key race cars that generate aftermarket component business at ford racing and specialty model street cars at ford motor division.

its comprehensive and its entirely based on the race cars racing. build a street car that replaces the race cars and is not legal to race and the entire structure fails. a boss 351 in the 500hp range would not fit into either the grand am gs class or the world challenge gts class.

thats my whole point. there's a lot more involved than one street car model.

-What racing class do gt500's fit into?
-what racing class do gt500 super snakes fit into?
-what racing class do California special 5.0 gt's fit?
-what racing class do v6 trac pack's fit?

that's all we are saying point. Just because it won't fit a racing class doesn't mean it won't/can't sell.

How awesome would an n/a 500hp+ track tuner mustang at 3500#'s be? Yes it would not be fieldable but it still would be bad ass. It could be a zl1 crusher for $45k, he'll 50k loaded with nav and all.

A small run of 7,500 cars a year could easily sell out, and the only real necessary improvements would be different pistons, and some transplanted cooling/handling mods from the 2013 gt500 like electronic shocks, carbon drive shaft etc.

Ford has all the parts on the shelf minus pistons and some internal tweaking, I'm just saying why not utilize all the parts and sell a ton of hi po incredible stangs to make your competition that much less significant while using up extra quantities of parts you already stock? It helps secure a need for those parts for all models as it alleviates the burden of cost that the current smaller flock of vehicles have to entail such as r&d, distribution etc. for marginal unit variable costs, which are ideal costs, you can help recover and profit for existing expenditures.

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

No way. The BMW is an 8k engine because it has less than 3" stroke...and way undersquare. I'm glad Ford went to 7,500+ with the 5.0 with the architecture as is.

I'm not wishing for more displacement next year, but if they do bump up to 351 cubes, I'd like to see more torque mostly...the HP can be 450 and I'd be good if it still revved past 6,800 and had say 440+ TQ stock.

I know a little bit about 5.4 building, not near as much as I should but a little bit.

It's definitely true that the long stroke of the 5.4 modular is not ideal for high rpm, and even complete race block builds by al papito don't like the high side of 9k rpms so yes that distinction is definitely a valid one against the 8k rpm BMW v8.

That said though, a 5.8l at a healthy and feasible 7000-7150rpms (7300+ is scary on relatively production class 5.4's) could easily make 500hp considering a that the BMW motor is making 414-450hp with only 4.0-4.4L's.

If ford shot for only 86.5hp/L, it could make 500hp safely all day long with a meaty torque curve. If they shot for the same efficiency as the boss 5.0(444hp/88.8hp/L which is unrealistic as that spins 7500rpm) it could make 515hp.

Considering ford has the motor spinning to 7k already in gt500 supercharged specification, it possible they could get an n/a version to spin to 7250-7500 and make 500hp.