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GT500 beats cars 2-3x its price at Road Atlanta

Discussion in '2020+ Shelby GT500 Mustang' started by LostM, Sep 13, 2019.

  1. P5Boy

    P5Boy Member Premium Member Established Member

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    I still say my argument that the new GT500 has jumped the shark. Consider these Lighting Lap times:
    #2 2019 ZR1 2:39.5
    #3 2017 Ford GT 2:43.0
    #9 2016 Viper ACR 2:44.2
    #10 2015 Z06 2:44.6
    #13 2018 ZL1 1LE 2:45.7
    #19 2017 Grand Sport 2:47.1
    #35 2016 GT350R 2:51.8
    #43 2019 Mustang GT PP2 2:53.8

    If the new GT500 doesn't beat the #13 spot, it's jumped the shark. I can tell you from my own experience (VIR is my home track), that a 2:45 on VIR Grand is getting it done. Grand isn't the pro circuit configuration, they short track the 4K foot back straight, but a 2:45 is hauling the mail...

    Shouldn't the new GT500 beat a ZL1 1LE to be relevant? Else, it's an over priced Mustang Boat destined for the 1/4 mile?
     
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  2. ON D BIT

    ON D BIT Finish First Established Member

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    Lightning lap is a joke and fully inaccurate. I’m still not sure why it’s quoted so often.

    Any decent lap comparison will have one professional driver running the vehicles.

    Yes the GT500 is faster than the ZL1. No the C8 will not be faster than the c7Z06
    We are seeing glimpses that the GT500 will compete and may be faster than the c7Z06.
    No I don’t believe the GT500 will be faster than the c7ZR1.
    No I don’t believe the GT500 will put up a .26 at Road Atlanta like the GT3RS has. That is 4 seconds faster than the Z06.
     
  3. P5Boy

    P5Boy Member Premium Member Established Member

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    I agree that there's variances and hence why I cited my experience with VIR, but in any case, no matter who is/was driving, a 2:45 on grand is hauling the mail.

    I've been on full with a ZL1 1LE and it whipped me pretty good (I do 2:10 in my 13 GT500), came in under 2:00 if I remember right. A sub 2:00 on full is usually good enough to place in TT1. And depending on who's in TTU that weekend, TTU.

    Time will tell where it lands. I don't think it [it's impact] will be like the 13 GT500s. Will there be an apology letter [to Camaro Nation] from Oppenheimer for the 2020 GT500 (like there was for the 2013 GT500)?
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  4. blk02edge

    blk02edge Well-Known Member Established Member

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    All I know is LostM will be out there personally setting bone stock track records in his tuned/modded base model
     
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  5. ON D BIT

    ON D BIT Finish First Established Member

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    11 500 3:04.0
    13 500 3:00.6
    11 500 2:58.48

    16 350R 2:51.8
    15 Z28 2:50.9
    The 15 Z28 is over a second slower on a number of shorter tracks.

    Yes these numbers do not add up.
     
  6. P5Boy

    P5Boy Member Premium Member Established Member

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    Is a 2015 Z28 the same as a 2018/2019/2020 ZL1 1LE?

    What were the conditions?

    VIR is a "big" track in it's Full configuration. Grand is kinda big, the big front straight is there but the back straight is short tracked (but still decent length).

    VIR is a track where big horsepower pays off. It's not a tight technical track. There's turns which bring the average speeds down but there's 3 places where big horsepower pays off (and big brakes).

    All I am saying is that the new GT500 must whip the current model ZL1 1LE shouldn't it? I am pointing out that the ZL1 1LE isn't a slouch (or pedestrian) on a road coarse.
     
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  7. ON D BIT

    ON D BIT Finish First Established Member

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    Those are lightning lap times made by the writers at CD.

    There have been re-pavings in the last 10 years making it a lot faster. Plus tire technology helps a lot.

    If the gt500 is putting up numbers similar or faster than the current z06 is that not significantly faster than the zl11le?
     
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  8. P5Boy

    P5Boy Member Premium Member Established Member

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    2020 GT500 to C7 Z06 w/Z07 comparisons might make me regret buying a Corvette track car. ;-)

    I'd take back all my criticisms and proclaim the 2020 GT500 as a super value! I'd be pretty happy. Take that Chebby!

    My general gripe is that $75K Mustang isn't _really_ a Mustang is it (if it can't beat the halo Crapmaro)? The reason why Mustang has the following it does is because it's been (hands down) the market leader on Pony Car value. At the current prices (and dealer markups), other options come into play where historically, only the Mustang lived in that market slot. I'm on the fence as to weather this is a good thing or a bad thing for the Mustang.

    If $100K+ Mustangs had/provided value, Shelby American would be making 5K units per year.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  9. ON D BIT

    ON D BIT Finish First Established Member

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    Value is all skewed in today’s market place. A F250 has an msrp of $80k. Jeeps are selling for over $50k. 2020 TRD Off Road is now $45k msrp.

    The 15 Mustang GT with PP and recaro was $35k. 5 years later it’s close to $50k.
    Put in perspective the $15k 5.0 of the late 80’s is now $50k.
    The $80/90k mustang is now close to the $80/90k vette and the $200k 911T in performance.

    It’s be nice to have a base Mustang GT/5.0 performance at $35k again.
     
  10. KILLERARMY

    KILLERARMY Member Established Member

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    Lightning Round at VIR 2019 Camaro ZL1 1LE.

     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
  11. Klaus

    Klaus Premium Member Premium Member Established Member

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    Here us how I would think of it:
    $35k in 2015 dollars is $40k in 2019 dollars. The $50k mustang that you are referring to is a PP2 and it is not $50k it is more like $42 to $45 out the door. It would take at least $10k to get the 2015 PP1 to the level of a 2019 PP2 and the you would still be stuck with the 2015. It is actually the 2015 that is a shittier value, not the 2019.

    There is a difference between price and value. I bet you could get a flip phone for less than a Iphone 10. It does not mean it is a better value.
     
  12. ON D BIT

    ON D BIT Finish First Established Member

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    Inflation from oct 14 to today is $35k goes to $37,960 so $38k.
    PP2 with Recaro and no other options is $46820 msrp. In CA that’s $52k otd if you pay msrp.
    $10k upgrade where? I see wider wheels and stickier tires with handling tuning.

    The big difference is there was no magna ride in 15.
     
  13. ON D BIT

    ON D BIT Finish First Established Member

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    Why does everyone post LL? You could not have a more disproportionate comparison even if the owners themselves drove than lightning lap.
    1 Pro driver same day comparison.
    1 Pro driver driving cars same weekend should be fairly consistent conditions.
    Why Car and Driver does not do this is beyond me...
     
  14. Klaus

    Klaus Premium Member Premium Member Established Member

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    gen2 coyote vs gen3
    4piston vs 6 piston on rear
    sport cup 2s with seriously bad ass rims
    does 19 have active exhaust?
    aero bits

    tires and rims alone are what $5k?
     
  15. ON D BIT

    ON D BIT Finish First Established Member

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    I get $3.5k for the tires($500)and wheels($300).
    Like I said earlier, magnaride is biggest difference.
     
  16. Tob

    Tob Salut! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I spent the past couple of days at Road Atlanta with George from MGW. Kohr had a rough go but I had the oportunity to pick a few brains and had a lot of fun. We just drove to his factory in a '19 ZR1 and there is no ****ing way the pig labeled "GT500" could even come close. The ZR1 is an absolute rocket with wheels on it. We also had the opportunity to take a close look at a couple of C8's as well as a sectioned chassis that is making rounds at the IMSA races. At this point the ZR1 can easily handle the C8 as well. Interesting to read Jim Mero's comments...

    Retired Corvette Ride and Handling Engineer Jim Mero 'Worries' About the New C8 Corvette - Corvette: Sales, News & Lifestyle
     
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  17. Tob

    Tob Salut! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Looks like it has been addressed, partially anyway.

    9b1212e5006f2af1e74579cabea0581f.png

    Do a factory rear seat delete to a Base car and you're at 4140 lbs. I'm guessing the CFTP car is around 4080 lbs.
     
  18. Cman01

    Cman01 hello Established Member

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    Still heavy no matter how you slice it.
     
  19. Tob

    Tob Salut! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Not saying otherwise. Just another data point.
     
  20. Klaus

    Klaus Premium Member Premium Member Established Member

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    Add ACR to this list, too. It is laughable that there is a debate that GT500 has any hope with hanging with this on any track that requires turning and braking.
     

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