Home Defense- Gun Question

[VettTheRipper]

if a criminal isn't armed you do not have the right to use deadly force.

You don't know what you're talking about. If you're afraid for your life or believe your life or the life of your family is in imminent danger, you can use deadly force. Maybe there have been instances, in certain states, under certain laws, where a homeowner was found negligent in shooting an unarmed intruder but these are extremely RARE.

 

[Nucking Futs]

I got a dumb question. I read the ENTIRE post and keep hearing about pump shotguns. I have used them but if I were to have a shotgun of any type why would you not get a semi-automatic shotgun?

I shot a semi-automatic shotgun Benilli and it shot as fast as I could pull the trigger. I would think if someone was in your home and your life was on the line I wouldn't want to take the time to chamber the gun every time I needed to shoot. I would just want to keep pulling the trigger until the intruder was stopped.

Both types of shot guns were 12 gauge and both kicked like a mule. I guess some semi-automatic's aren't as reliable as the pump?

 

[VettTheRipper]

I got a dumb question. I read the ENTIRE post and keep hearing about pump shotguns. I have used them but if I were to have a shotgun of any type why would you not get a semi-automatic shotgun?

I shot a semi-automatic shotgun Benilli and it shot as fast as I could pull the trigger. I would think if someone was in your home and your life was on the line I wouldn't want to take the time to chamber the gun every time I needed to shoot. I would just want to keep pulling the trigger until the intruder was stopped.

Both types of shot guns were 12 gauge and both kicked like a mule. I guess some semi-automatic's aren't as reliable as the pump?

Benelli's are awesome guns. Problem with a semi is during rapid fire situations. While you can keep pulling the trigger as fast as you can....you'll end up with a lot of holes in your cieling. Muzzle lift is a problem due to the massive recoil and it takes lots of restraint and practice to get good with one. In reality, a pump is all you need as it will rarely take more than one shot.

 

[VettTheRipper]

O Ye of Prodigious Ignorance...wow.

...should we cut him some slack, since he is a newbie and has no idea who FordSVTFan is??? Both on the board and in real life??? He hath lain himself at your feet, fattened for the slaughter.

With the phrase "SVT Killer" in his username...how much slack do you think he'll get here? op:

 

[Wildpony]

If I could get a class 2 permit I would like to have a Benelli M1 Super 90 "Entry Gun" They have a 14" barrel and the extra pistol grip w/ full stock. I do have a regular Benelli 21" Super 90 field but I only live in a 1 bedroom apt and I don't think it would be the right choice for the small space. I know if I hit someone though at the range inside the apt., it would be ugly...
The only other gun I have that I feel I can use in the apt. is my Super Redhawk in .44mag. I know that is over kill but until I get a auto or smaller revolver that's what I use. I bought it for hunting. I keep it under the bed and fully loaded with Winchester Black Talons (until I can get some of those speciality loads that don't go through 3 -4 walls ). I made up some 180 grain JHP loads , bored out the tip enough to fit a large pistol primer, shooting this at a 5gallon water pail did more damage than the regular load. I won't use it as a defense load cause I believe the prosecutor would have my butt in court if not using factory ammo. I don't think they want to see any reloaded ammo being used -custom or not.
Also to the cops on here, doesn't the majority of handgun battles(shootouts) happen under 20 ft.,regardless of inside or outside??

 

[CobraSusie]

I think having a gun for safety is very wise :burnout:

 

[Sonik Blur]

Just wanted to chime in, I've got a Kimber Custom TLE/RL II .45 ACP with an M9 Tactical light for my home and I have only been required to pull it out once. The reason I'm posting is that you may want to consider a firearm with a rail for a tactical light. A guy broke into my old house in Chicago and I heard him so I got the gun out and didn't have to fire because the blinding light from the tac light was enough to scare him. I don't have any kids so I keep it reatively close to my bed...After the police left, I checked the gun and found out that I didn't even have any rounds in the mag!! I totally forgot to reload after I went to the range a week before...So, In essence, the tac light was more of a deterent than the gun. But if the $hit hit the fan, I wouldn't be here today...never gonna make that mistake ever again.

-Mike

 

[hillie16]

You must be a great instructor because if a criminal isn't armed you do not have the right to use deadly force. There are levels to the use of force and the last level is deadly force and may only be used when all others have been exhausted. By the way being an active duty garrison MP for 4 years you also have the responsibilites of regular law enforcement.

I also hope you have a good criminal defense lawyer. Because when you blow his ass away with you mighty 12 gauge and his family sues your ass then maybe you will understand.

By the way the average person who thinks they hear an intruder in their home will call the police and wait for help. They probably won't pick up their shotgun and start clearing rooms like a SWAT team. If the intruder is already in their bedroom it won't matter if he has a pistol or a shotgun their pretty much screwed. Have a nice day. :bash:

Being an MP, doesn't mean you know real police work. They aren't they same. FordSVTFan, being a federal agent, and myself being an experienced police officer DO KNOW, and in this case my friend, you are wrong. There was a recent case exactly like this locally, where a guy broke into an occupied apartment, was shot and killed by the occupant WITH A SHOTGUN. It was found to be a justifiable homicide, and the family of the intruder filed a suit which was thrown out. Remember also that civilians are not bound by a use of force continuum policy.

 

[FordSVTFan]

You must be a great instructor because if a criminal isn't armed you do not have the right to use deadly force. There are levels to the use of force and the last level is deadly force and may only be used when all others have been exhausted. By the way being an active duty garrison MP for 4 years you also have the responsibilites of regular law enforcement.

I also hope you have a good criminal defense lawyer. Because when you blow his ass away with you mighty 12 gauge and his family sues your ass then maybe you will understand.

By the way the average person who thinks they hear an intruder in their home will call the police and wait for help. They probably won't pick up their shotgun and start clearing rooms like a SWAT team. If the intruder is already in their bedroom it won't matter if he has a pistol or a shotgun their pretty much screwed. Have a nice day. :bash:

I like to consider myself a great instructor.

I dont know where you get your info, but once again you are WRONG!!!

To use deadly force as a CIVILIAN, in most jurisdictions you only need to feel that your life is in danger! You dont need to wait and see if the unarmed intruder is a Judo Expert. You dont need to wait and see if the unarmed intruder is a grappling expert. You dont need to wait and see if he opens a knife out of concealment. You dont need to wait and see if he has a hidden weapon/firearm. If an intruder is advancing on your or your family you have the right to protect yourself with the amount of force necessary to stop that advance.

Additionally, yes there are 5 (five) levels of the continuum of force. But these are specifically for law enforcement(not civilians), hence the first level: OFFICER PRESENCE. second level: verbal commands. third level: soft techniques forth level: hard techniques. fifth level: deadly force.

While remembering that a soft technique as well as a hard technique can be a deadly weapon if used improperly.

Again SGT. Active Duty Garrison MP, I work with plenty of former MPs and not one of them says their MP days even compare to real on the street police work. So have a nice day, yourself. :-D

 

[Chas]

Just wanted to chime in, I've got a Kimber Custom TLE/RL II .45 ACP with an M9 Tactical light for my home and I have only been required to pull it out once. The reason I'm posting is that you may want to consider a firearm with a rail for a tactical light. A guy broke into my old house in Chicago and I heard him so I got the gun out and didn't have to fire because the blinding light from the tac light was enough to scare him. I don't have any kids so I keep it reatively close to my bed...After the police left, I checked the gun and found out that I didn't even have any rounds in the mag!! I totally forgot to reload after I went to the range a week before...So, In essence, the tac light was more of a deterent than the gun. But if the $hit hit the fan, I wouldn't be here today...never gonna make that mistake ever again.

-Mike

I would take the sound of a 12 gauge pump over a flashlight anyday. I'm not busting on you but I've got to say training is most important aspect of an emergency situation. An untrained person may not know what to do if they drop the hammer on someone and hear a click. Do you have have a loaded mag nearby and would you be able to load it under pressure? It sounds easy but its not. What if you had a misfire or a jam, have you trained for it? Would you be able to hit a moving target with your aderinilin pumping? If you miss were is that bullit going? I wouldn't risk my life or the lives of my family and neighbors if I didn't know the answers to these questions. Using a hand gun for home defense is very risky. Rack the slide on a 12 gauge and it will be heard thoughout your house and is unmistakable. Besides do you really want someone to die in your house? Everytime you walk over the spot you'll think about it. You'll never be able to watch another scary movie with out thinking about the ghost upstairs. You might come home and find memoreales with rebel flags or puddles of malt liqure on the floor. ;-)

 

[EvergreenSVT]

Benelli's are awesome guns. Problem with a semi is during rapid fire situations. While you can keep pulling the trigger as fast as you can....you'll end up with a lot of holes in your cieling. Muzzle lift is a problem due to the massive recoil and it takes lots of restraint and practice to get good with one. In reality, a pump is all you need as it will rarely take more than one shot.

Um, no. Its easier to keep a semis muzzle down than a pump from short stroking.

 

[The BigSHO]

Maybe... But semi autos jam.

Majority of law enforcement uses 12 gauge pump. Mostly Remington 870 Police...

That's good enough for me. :thumbsup:

 

[VettTheRipper]

Um, no. Its easier to keep a semis muzzle down than a pump from short stroking.

Maybe for you and maybe for me, but not for some "Joe" that decides on a whim to buy a semi 12 to keep under his bed.

As for me I have a Mossberg Defender that has never short stroked but of course, I always put some "sack" into it. When it comes to a shotgun, although I'd love a Benneli auto, a pump is all I need. My .45 is an auto, my AR is an auto, and my M1A is an auto. If my shotgun jams it really doesn't matter since I'm holding a .45 in the other.

 

[Wildpony]

Maybe... But semi autos jam.

Majority of law enforecement uses 12 gauge pump. Mostly Remington 870 Police...

That's good enough for me. :thumbsup:

Yes this is true, but is it because the departments don't want or can't spend the $$ on a Benelli or some other auto?

Some of the departments around here are using 9mm or .40 carbines instead of shotguns. I have heard before one of the reasons is that the women cops can't hang with the shotguns loaded w/slugs or BS..

 

[OhOneSnake]

I got a dumb question. I read the ENTIRE post and keep hearing about pump shotguns. I have used them but if I were to have a shotgun of any type why would you not get a semi-automatic shotgun?

Why not a semi? Because the sound of a pump action c0cking will scare away a good percentage of intruders. ;-)

 

[Groovyash]

I also hope you have a good criminal defense lawyer. Because when you blow his ass away with you mighty 12 gauge and his family sues your ass then maybe you will understand.

Find me case law where someone succesfully prosecuted a criminal or civil case on the grounds that someone used "too much gun" when the shooting was otherwise justified. You won't find any, because it's never happened.

Dan

 

[Calebp]

What do I put besides "To protect myself & my family" without sounding like an idiot?

"All Lawful Purposes"

 

[METHICAL]

A lot being said about the sound of a pump shotgun being shucked scaring the intruder away. It might do that; it'll definitely give your position away, and possibly attract some blind shooting in your direction. Don't rely on movies and TV for knowledge of firearms and their use.

 

[The BigSHO]

Majority of Law Enforcement use/prefer pump 12 gauge... Enough said.

 

[OhOneSnake]

A lot being said about the sound of a pump shotgun being shucked scaring the intruder away. It might do that; it'll definitely give your position away, and possibly attract some blind shooting in your direction. Don't rely on movies and TV for knowledge of firearms and their use.

Debating the value of the sound of a c0cking 12 guage has nothing to do with TV or Movies. I hardly think many here are relying on TV or Movies for our knowledge of firearms and their use.

As for giving your position away, this aint the jungles of Southeast Asia, its your home. You position in the middle of the night is pretty easy to guess....the bedroom.

Anyone wishing to do you harm coming into your house would much rather you NOT be armed, and will have second thoughts when they know your armed and waiting for them to come through the doorway. This is of much greater value to a citizen than being stealthy. I think you're the one watching too many movies, Rambo.