Is it worth it? Setup comparison 2cents wanted

[apex svt]

Throw in your 2 cents

Trying to think through this to see if I can get good gains relatively “cheap” or even worth it.
Current setup:
Steggy 4 3.1/8# lower
Stock fuel pumps w/bap
Stock injectors
2400 maf
200 shot on a stand-alone (C-16)
93 pump

Since there are some deals out there for used 2.3’s Whipple/TVS I’ve been kicking around the idea of upgrading. But when do the gains outweigh the cost?

running 93 pump I can turn a 2.3 up to low to mid 600’s. But I think I’m hitting the breaking point.
Fuel pumps
Dual fpdm
Wire upgrade
Injectors
Race gas/E-85(requiring a return)
Maybe a new maf

The car has trapped 138 and the Eaton is fun, but more power on tap and lowering the kill pill seems like a recipe for 9’s.

it seems like I’m going to take a huge leap to gain some power. Judging by trap speed I believe I’m sitting around 700hp on the sauce.

Throw your thought out

 

[BlckBox04]

Upgrade the blower.
/Thread

 

[01yellercobra]

I'd say upgrade the blower. At least then the power is on tap all the time. No worries about filling the bottle. Or filling it less since you wouldn't need as big of a shot. I think there are a couple cars on here running a returnless system on E85. But then it comes down to how much power do you want to make.

 

[ITSTOCK]

As a 2.3 whipple owner (with a 3.4 crusher ready to go on) and a previous eaton/nitrous owner, don't waste your money on the 2.3 whipple. Stick with your current setup if your goals are only 2.3 deep. You have a cheap, reliable, proven setup.

When you're ready to step up, go big, but for now, it's not worth it to only have the 2.3.

 

[apex svt]

As a 2.3 whipple owner (with a 3.4 crusher ready to go on) and a previous eaton/nitrous owner, don't waste your money on the 2.3 whipple. Stick with your current setup if your goals are only 2.3 deep. You have a cheap, reliable, proven setup.

When you're ready to step up, go big, but for now, it's not worth it to only have the 2.3.

This is sort of what I was thinking. That the gains here don’t seem massive until you jump to the next size up blower.
But, a turned up 2.3 with 100 hit?
Didn’t you end up spraying your 2.3?

 

[BlckBox04]

This is sort of what I was thinking. That the gains here don’t seem massive until you jump to the next size up blower.
But, a turned up 2.3 with 100 hit?
Didn’t you end up spraying your 2.3?

save your money and upgrade to one of the newer blowers and a fuel system, it's 100% worth the money

 

[Black Gold 380R]

As a 2.3 whipple owner (with a 3.4 crusher ready to go on) and a previous eaton/nitrous owner, don't waste your money on the 2.3 whipple. Stick with your current setup if your goals are only 2.3 deep. You have a cheap, reliable, proven setup.

When you're ready to step up, go big, but for now, it's not worth it to only have the 2.3.

I'm with Itstock on this. You would basically be spending money to end up right where you're at. Why do that? At this point it's go big or go home for you. Unless you feel your current set up is unreliable or a hassle, I wouldn't change it.

 

[c6zhombre]

What's your hp/TQ goal?
What's your budget?
What configuration?

If the budget and HP is unlimited...and you want to stay blower.....the gen5 3.0 is the way to go.

If the budget is limited....and HP goal is around 800....look for a gen4 2.9. Or you could always pick up a 2.3 used....run E85 max effort spin....then SPRAY it. Should do 800.

If budget and config unlimited....go turbo and auto. This will always end up the fastest setup of all. But it's a major undertaking and the car will lose some of its terminator DNA during the transformation.

 

[apex svt]

What's your hp/TQ goal?
What's your budget?
What configuration?

If the budget and HP is unlimited...and you want to stay blower.....the gen5 3.0 is the way to go.

If the budget is limited....and HP goal is around 800....look for a gen4 2.9. Or you could always pick up a 2.3 used....run E85 max effort spin....then SPRAY it. Should do 800.

If budget and config unlimited....go turbo and auto. This will always end up the fastest setup of all. But it's a major undertaking and the car will lose some of its terminator DNA during the transformation.

My thought was to hit close to the 800 mark. Gain 100-200hp on motor and lower the spray to 100hp. To try and eek in some 9 second passes.
Being budget friendly (never possible).
Used Whipple/vmp 2300-2500
Injectors 300
Tune 350
Sell ported blower 500-600
Be in it for $2,500ish

The snag is I’ll most likely need
Maf: as a 2400 will be running out of steam at close to 700hp

GT pumps minimum. From what I’ve read duel fpdm are needed for this.

Then run it on E-85 or get a pump and race gas tune.

Which really blows the budget part out of it. As others are saying I think I’m at the go big or go home stage.

 

[BlckBox04]

My thought was to hit close to the 800 mark. Gain 100-200hp on motor and lower the spray to 100hp. To try and eek in some 9 second passes.
Being budget friendly (never possible).
Used Whipple/vmp 2300-2500
Injectors 300
Tune 350
Sell ported blower 500-600
Be in it for $2,500ish

The snag is I’ll most likely need
Maf: as a 2400 will be running out of steam at close to 700hp

GT pumps minimum. From what I’ve read duel fpdm are needed for this.

Then run it on E-85 or get a pump and race gas tune.

Which really blows the budget part out of it. As others are saying I think I’m at the go big or go home stage.

I'm going to have a BA3000 available soon if you want to start gathering parts, I'm waiting for my ms3 pnp to come in and obviously wont need it anymore

 

[c6zhombre]

My thought was to hit close to the 800 mark. Gain 100-200hp on motor and lower the spray to 100hp. To try and eek in some 9 second passes.
Being budget friendly (never possible).
Used Whipple/vmp 2300-2500
Injectors 300
Tune 350
Sell ported blower 500-600
Be in it for $2,500ish

The snag is I’ll most likely need
Maf: as a 2400 will be running out of steam at close to 700hp

GT pumps minimum. From what I’ve read duel fpdm are needed for this.

Then run it on E-85 or get a pump and race gas tune.

Which really blows the budget part out of it. As others are saying I think I’m at the go big or go home stage.

Ya there are so many choices on which way to go.....I've sad it before on other threads....but really, it's crazy how many blowers are still being released for this car. And keep in mind another one is coming as it looks like vmp will have a 2.65 gen3R soon.

 

[Black02GT]

I'm going to have a BA3000 available soon if you want to start gathering parts, I'm waiting for my ms3 pnp to come in and obviously wont need it anymore

Going speed density?

My thought was to hit close to the 800 mark. Gain 100-200hp on motor and lower the spray to 100hp. To try and eek in some 9 second passes.
Being budget friendly (never possible).
Used Whipple/vmp 2300-2500
Injectors 300
Tune 350
Sell ported blower 500-600
Be in it for $2,500ish

The snag is I’ll most likely need
Maf: as a 2400 will be running out of steam at close to 700hp

GT pumps minimum. From what I’ve read duel fpdm are needed for this.

Then run it on E-85 or get a pump and race gas tune.

Which really blows the budget part out of it. As others are saying I think I’m at the go big or go home stage.

This, to be a decent jump you're looking, e85, return system, etc. Plus is that it'll always make that power on the street. I love my 2.3 TVS making 725hp with a 2.8 upper only. Thinking of going to a 3.0 Gen5 but honestly, might just swap to a 3.0/4#. Pretty unusable on the street anyway minus highway pulls.

If all your looking to do is track runs nitrous has less of a downside.

 

[01yellercobra]

But even if you upgrade to the "small" 2.3, you're still ahead of where you're at. The 2.3 is capable of more airflow. So if you keep your current shot you'll be making more power. If you decide to keep the total power the same for now you can drop the shot which makes it easier on parts. Both are wins IMO.

 

[c6zhombre]

But even if you upgrade to the "small" 2.3, you're still ahead of where you're at. The 2.3 is capable of more airflow. So if you keep your current shot you'll be making more power. If you decide to keep the total power the same for now you can drop the shot which makes it easier on parts. Both are wins IMO.

Good points. Also, making 700 on a 2.3 and E85 is really quite repeatable. I feel no real loss of power whether I'm at 103 IAT2....or 153. It will pull after pull even damn hot.

 

[apex svt]

All good info guys. Everyone’s posts bouncing back and forth between ideas is what I’ve been doing in my head and what I was looking for in this thread. @01yellercobra makes a good point. The bigger blower would put me ahead, although a 200 shot on top of a Whipple seems a bit startling.
But if I could get near 700hp on c-16 with minimal fuel mods it might be worth it. 100shot is the smallest I can do with my spray bar setup so that should put me close to 800.
(Currently makes 500hp on motor)
Probably 100-150hp gain on 93pump
200hp on c-16
Clip 800 on spray?
Seem logical?

 

[Black02GT]

All good info guys. Everyone’s posts bouncing back and forth between ideas is what I’ve been doing in my head and what I was looking for in this thread. @01yellercobra makes a good point. The bigger blower would put me ahead, although a 200 shot on top of a Whipple seems a bit startling.
But if I could get near 700hp on c-16 with minimal fuel mods it might be worth it. 100shot is the smallest I can do with my spray bar setup so that should put me close to 800.
(Currently makes 500hp on motor)
Probably 100-150hp gain on 93pump
200hp on c-16
Clip 800 on spray?
Seem like a logical?

Seems to follow to me.
My only argument is how much is C16? If you have access to E85 just go for it, the fuel price will make up the difference if you drive it at all normally. Renting vs Buying, if your paying $75 for 5 gallons and I'm paying $25 to fill my whole tank that $1,000 Fore system would be made up in a year. Just something to think about.

 

[KING_Asp]

Throw me in the upgrade the blower club. Boost is always there and its always fun. Plus you have all the room you want for more spray like you said. Car would be a beast and fun with a 2.3L TVS and spray. More Whipples and probably even some KB's will be for sale soon once more Gen 5 Whipple results come out.

 

[apex svt]

Seems to follow to me.
My only argument is how much is C16? If you have access to E85 just go for it, the fuel price will make up the difference if you drive it at all normally. Renting vs Buying, if your paying $75 for 5 gallons and I'm paying $25 to fill my whole tank that $1,000 Fore system would be made up in a year. Just something to think about.

@c6zhombre will probably hang me for this one, but I’m not sold on all the inconsistencies from pump to pump. Buying e85 by the drum is about $8-10 a gallon from vp or Sunoco. Could buy a pail of c16 for track outings and cruise around on 93. I like the idea of e85, just not sure right now.

 

[KING_Asp]

@c6zhombre will probably hang me for this one, but I’m not sold on all the inconsistencies from pump to pump. Buying e85 by the drum is about $8-10 a gallon from vp or Sunoco. Could buy a pail of c16 for track outings and cruise around on 93. I like the idea of e85, just not sure right now.

As far as inconsistencies from pump to pump goes an ethanol content sensor can take care of your worries. The pumps are normally pretty consistent in a given climate. The content sensor will allow you to switch between tunes with confidence knowing what fuel you have. Just have your tuner change the stoich in your tune for which fuel you are using. Works great for me so far bud. And switching between ethanol and 93 isn't bad at all. I went with a pretty maxed out returnless system before and still wound up with a return system in the end. But in the end as long as you kill all the hellcats and vettes that show up your doing your community well!!

 

[c6zhombre]

@c6zhombre will probably hang me for this one, but I’m not sold on all the inconsistencies from pump to pump. Buying e85 by the drum is about $8-10 a gallon from vp or Sunoco. Could buy a pail of c16 for track outings and cruise around on 93. I like the idea of e85, just not sure right now.

Lol. Not all, in the end, you have to do what you are comfortable with. I always advise people test their area pumps and see what they are getting % wise thru the year, northern areas will see more swings than down south. I see 87% all year. But even if you don't in your area, it's not too difficult to have 2 or more tunes in the handheld. 85%, 70%. Drop in the one that you're testing closest to, unless it's just totally testing off the map low (which is rare except for arizona it seems....pretty much e54 iirc).

If all that sucks, you can go with an aftermarket computer, ethanol sensor, dual widebands. Extremely convenient but $$$$. Of course, running race ga$$$ is pretty damn expensive over time as well.