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It's Official! 2020 GT500 Makes 760HP

Discussion in '2020+ Shelby GT500 Mustang' started by D'ZR1 Messiah, Jun 19, 2019.

  1. LostM

    LostM Well-Known Member Established Member

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    come on man, thats not what hes saying nor what is happening

    your car makes 370hp factory. dynos 325 because 15%. you strap twin turbos on it, now it makes 1000hp dyno, you really think its 1200 CHP?

    somehow it took 180hp to run the same drivetrain/ancillary components
     
  2. GT Premi

    GT Premi Well known member Established Member

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    Okay, this convinced me. Not the speed to which you spin it, but rather the rate that you get it up to speed. Don't know why I never considered that before. But yes, the faster you attempt to get those components up to speed, the more energy they will consume. The ol' "a body at rest remains at rest, yada yada yada" is what made it click for me.
     
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  3. Rubenk

    Rubenk Wasn't me. Established Member

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    Ya'll are way overthinking this.

    Drivetrain losses are always a percentage. The more work you put in, the more you lose, because science. It isn't the same % every time, and definitely not the same across different setups, but will always be a %.
     
  4. AustinJ427

    AustinJ427 Well-Known Member Established Member Beer Money Bros.

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    I understand what you are saying, and can see the point of view, but I think youre getting hung up on the ultimate temperature being the power sap when it's the energy losses that build to the higher temperatures. It doesn't matter if the axle is running 150 degrees or 300 degrees at that point, you're right about it probably being a 1% difference in power, but it's when you force a lot more power through the system is when you have greater losses.

    Again, think about running your car on the dyno at 4,000 rpm with as little throttle input as possible to maintain, it might not even take 20 hp to spin the drivetrain, but at full load and 500+ hp running through it, we are losing a lot more than 20hp.

    I don't think the losses are perfectly linear, but I feel it's probably close. That's why we always have a range when talking about dyno losses.

    These waters get horribly muddy when we look at engines that are under rated by manufacturers and dyno sheets from different dynos. This all seems so pointless.

    The trinity makes what? 580 wheel? So 80hp to "spin" that drivetrain, that seems fair. If we put a 1.6 from an old UK mondeo in it, is it really going to require 100 throttle just to spin the drive train while it has no load on a dyno? No, not at all, it will probably push the car along just fine on the street, it won't be fast but it would probably run doors with a 2CV, with an engine that supposedly makes as much power as it takes just to spin the tires.

    For what it's worth, the BSFC (brake specific fuel consumption) for unleaded is .45-.50 gallons per hour per horsepower. So if we need 80 horsepower to spin that drive train with no load or wind resistance, it will consume 5.8 gallons per hour on the low end (6.4gph on the high end). That's 10 mpg at 60. It could probably do better than that with wind resistance at whatever RPM and just maintaining throttle.

    I think I've got my point across, more power=more losses, less power=less losses. And again, this seems so pointless.
     
  5. Snoopy49

    Snoopy49 Well-Known Member Established Member

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    I don't want to throw gas on a fire that may be almost out, but are we through with the 850 HP gross debate?
     
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  6. 03Cobra05GT

    03Cobra05GT Well-Known Member Established Member

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    FFS I hope so lol.
     
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  7. Tob

    Tob Salut! Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Sooo.....900hp then?



    :)
     
  8. 03Cobra05GT

    03Cobra05GT Well-Known Member Established Member

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    Absolutely. When you factor in the ratio of air to foot pressure and then divide that by the amount of hp felt on the butt dyno, you just have to extrapolate the correct density of the shart that came out and you will land right around 900 hp.
     
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  9. ON D BIT

    ON D BIT Finish First Established Member

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    He’s saying whp does not lose power from crank horsepower. I’ve never seen that or heard that. Manufacturers test both, customers test whp. Whp is always a lot lower than crank.

    I’ve never seen it different. He says no, all I am asking is to show my whp is not lower than crank.

    “Before we ran the car we decided to run a few calculations, keeping in mind that horsepower and torque ratings from the factory are measured at the flywheel and not at the wheels. Rear wheel numbers should result in a 10-15-percent power loss through the driveline, which meant the dyno numbers were looking for should be in the following neighborhood.”
    85113F71-7B8F-4246-A13F-C5D88ED00BD7.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
  10. SlowShelby_TX

    SlowShelby_TX New Member Established Member

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    I have always thought this to some degree. My thinking was back when I had my DSM but it applies to everything. If you calculate "x" percentage loss from a stock car on a certain dyno, and then say you triple the whp..do you really think you triple the loss? I do not. Sure, the increased power sure creates increased heat through the drivetrain hence the increase in coolers and wasted energy, which is increased loss....I just dont think it is a fixed value. Granted, I am an accounting and finance guy and work with chemical engineers in the oil industry, not mechanical ones.
     
  11. nxhappy

    nxhappy Vette Killer Established Member

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    its gonna be 670-680WHP stock. But really, who gives a ****? won't matter if you can't hook, or if you can't shift. Also doesn't matter when racing a c8 hahaha
     
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  12. Rubenk

    Rubenk Wasn't me. Established Member

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    You're exactly right, it's not a fixed value. It is always a percentage.
     
  13. Need 04 Wine

    Need 04 Wine Well-Known Member Established Member Established Member

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    Yes....and what shift cause dct.


    Sent from my POFS iPhone in a rage cause this is the third try.
     
  14. SlowShelby_TX

    SlowShelby_TX New Member Established Member

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    I will preface this with my education. or lack there of in this area...I would presume it takes "x" amount of force to spin a driveshaft that weighs "y" at a certain rpm. It seems to me that that value will be fixed, regardless of output. Now, the hydraulic heat lossed it makes some sense would increase, but for some parts, it just does not. It is surely a percentage, but I would wager it is not a fixed percentage through identical drivetrains with different outputs.
     
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  15. SlowShelby_TX

    SlowShelby_TX New Member Established Member

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    You do realise it is a two pedal dct? I think shifting is covered. Traction is always an issue, but it will certainly be faster than a c8. It will be 8-10 mpH ahead in a quarter, and if you knew your colon from your elbow, that means it will be a much faster car in the real world.
     
  16. tt335ci03cobra

    tt335ci03cobra Well-Known Member Established Member

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    Show me where I said that. I never once said an engines hp is what will show up at the wheels.

    You’re trolling. Stop it.
     
  17. biminiLX

    biminiLX never stock Established Member

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    Not worried because DCT and R888Rs :)
    Release the damn car for testing already!
    -J
     
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  18. nxhappy

    nxhappy Vette Killer Established Member

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    you're sure about the quarter huh? I don't think so. It will be a heavy pig.
     
  19. nxhappy

    nxhappy Vette Killer Established Member

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    forgot it was DCT, my bad.
     
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  20. biminiLX

    biminiLX never stock Established Member

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    Yes on the quarter because DCT and more torque and rpm.
    -J
     

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