Mach1 With Roots style Blower????

[na svt]

Yes that means the underdrive pullies. And ditch them means get rid of them.

What happens is they are so small and light weight that they spin way to fast and shatter the gears in the water pump. Our/any motor with no water will over heat and eventually blow up. There not worth it to have on.

they do not shatter water pump gears...they shatter oil pump gears!

they do not shatter them because they are so small and lightweight that they spin way to fast...they are too small to dampen the harmonics on the crank shaft, where the oil pump gears are driven, therefore the harmonics are transferred to the weak metal oil pump gears and they shatter. :beer:

A small diameter dampener (it's not an UDP) will not result in broken oil pump gears, especially one that has a lot of mass. I've installed many of them and none have caused this. There have been more damaged engines due to bad tunes and missed shifts than borken oil ump gears due to small diamater dampeners. The internet mechanics have kept this rumor going for years.

The March Fluid Dampener and the new Steeda dampener are great pieces and will free up some power.

Now to the parts needed for an eaton swap:
supercharger
manifold
intercooler and hoses/lines
injectors
MAF
TB
IAC
intake tube
throttle and cruise cables
03/04 cobra front cover
pulleys and pulley bridge
alternator
alternator bracket
lower pulley
03/04 dampener
heat exchanger with lines
intercooler pump
misc lines/hoses/hardware
upgraded fuel pump

The easiest thing is to buy a complete eaton swap kit from a wrecked car. I've sold two recently and you should be able to find one pretty cheap.

You'll ahve to relocate the IAT sensor to a point where it read the boosted inlet temp

We put one on a Mach, stock blower wtih a 6lb lower pulley and it made 450rwhp on a safe tune. The engine probably won't last long at that power level but it's where the owner wanted it.

Also, we did a rebuild on a eaton swap Mach and the compression was set at 8.5 to 1, it made 50rwhp less than it did with stock compression and pre-boost power sucked. Torque was down a lot across the entire range.

 

[TR03Mach1]

A small diameter dampener (it's not an UDP) will not result in broken oil pump gears, especially one that has a lot of mass. I've installed many of them and none have caused this. There have been more damaged engines due to bad tunes and missed shifts than borken oil ump gears due to small diamater dampeners. The internet mechanics have kept this rumor going for years.

The March Fluid Dampener and the new Steeda dampener are great pieces and will free up some power.

I think if I were you, I would refrain from using remarks like the one above in my posts in the future.

Here's what some of those so called "internet mechanics" as you call them have to say on the subject.


Boss 330 Racing. Al Pappito

Modular Performance. John and Mike Tymenski

Accufab Racing. John Mihovetz. NHRA AA/AT World Record Holder

Livernois Motorsports

Pauls High Performance

Sean Hyland Motorsports

VT Engines

Here is small sample of the things they’ve had to say about small diameter dampers:

Quote:
"Do you rev your engine over 6500 rpm? If you do you should worry...The next time you blast through the gears might be your last"
Al Pappito

Quote:
"We do not install small dampers on any DOHC engine builds. All our engines get Innovators West full size dampers"
Livernoise Motorsports

Quote:
"There is alot of harmonic vibration on the front of mod. cranks. The small dia. dampers do not adequately control the vibration"
Al Pappito

Quote:
"The net of all this information is to use the (stock) '96-'01 Cobra balancer (F6ZZ-6312-AB) on all manual transmission, forged crank applications"
Sean Hyland

Quote:
"It appears that if you want your engine to live a happy life keep your stock vibration damper/pulleys"
Al Pappito

Quote:
"Cheapo balancers just do not work with powdered metal gears"
J. Mihovetz

Quote:
"Food for thought..I just rebuilt a '98 cobra it has spent the last five years as a road race car. The bone stock engine had never had a wrench on it, including the rusty stock damper sitting right where it was bolted in 1998. 20,000 mi at full throttle. This thing was totally worn out .guess what....The flats on the crank and the stock pump looked great.
In contrast...A slightly famous Factory stock cobra after a mid season NMRA teardown showed a problem. After 500 street miles and about 35 quarter mile passes the rotors had beat depressions about .040.'' deep into the drive flats where the pump contacts the crank. That engine was wearing a small dia. underdrive damper"
Al Pappito

Quote:
"There also seems to be increased instances of oil-pump failure when some brands of underdrive pulley kits are used. I believe this is due to inadequate damping with the reduced-diameter harmonic balancer"
Sean Hyland

Quote:
"After building truckloads of modular engines a pattern has emerged. Most all oil pump failures involve underdrive pulleys"
Al Pappito

Quote:
"If anyone will spend $5000+ to rebuild an engine, $400 for a damper should be one of the first things. I'm using an ATI"
VT Engines

The point that seems to keep getting lost on people like you, is not that the oil pump gears will definitely fail if you use underdrive pulleys, or small diameter dampers, but rather, the amount of horsepower gained is not worth either the investment, nor the risk that there will be a failure. There are considerably safer ways to make the 8-10hp that are typically gained on a modular 4v engines.

 

[na svt]

I think if I were you, I would refrain from using remarks like the one above in my posts in the future.

...the amount of horsepower gained is not worth either the investment, nor the risk that there will be a failure. There are considerably safer ways to make the 8-10hp that are typically gained on a modular 4v engines.

My point is this, there is no more risk to running a high quality small diamater dampener than there is getting an aggressive tune or power shifting at 7k. I personally know of three failed oil pump gears, two were on 4vs that had stock dampeners and the other had a piggyback style BBK underdrive pulley.

I ran a March Fluid Dampener on my cobra, spun it to 7500 plus, it had a powder metal gear oil pump, the oil pump did not break and the crank looked excellent when the dampener was removed.

I don't see John Tymensky quoted but I do see his name.

Mihovetz referred to "cheapo balancers", not the higher quality small diamater dampeners currently made.

VT, I've seen their quality, nuff said.

Sean Hyland, "There also seems to be increased instances of oil-pump failure when some brands of underdrive pulley kits are used. I believe this is due to inadequate damping with the reduced-diameter harmonic balancer." Once again, he's talking about underdrive pulley kits, not small diamater dampeners, there is a difference.

Those references you posted are old, very old.

If you are gonna turn the engine 8k plus, go with an innovators west dampener or something similar, but for a stock engine a March fluid Dampener or the new steeda dampener will work fine.

 

[scotmach]

Also, we did a rebuild on a eaton swap Mach and the compression was set at 8.5 to 1, it made 50rwhp less than it did with stock compression and pre-boost power sucked. Torque was down a lot across the entire range.

That's pretty interesting but not surprising.

 

[1983camhead]

If I'm correct the 5 speeds came with 8 bolt forged crank and auto's with cast six bolt. And I dont think the slugs are forged on either.

 

[na svt]

What was that again Tonto?


Nice lob toss yourself. My swing hit it over the fence, but yours was only a double. :lol::beer:

Help stamp out and abolish redundancy.

 

[ponygt65]

Help stamp out and abolish redundancy.

You never played organized baseball; I'm guessing. :shrug:

 

[na svt]

You never played organized baseball; I'm guessing. :shrug:

I have since I was 5yrs old and still do. I guess that means I've been playing organized baseball/softball for about 41 years.

 

[PCPRO]

I agree with Todd. I've been running the Steeda for quite some time now, with no problems at all.

 

[ponygt65]

I have since I was 5yrs old and still do. I guess that means I've been playing organized baseball/softball for about 41 years.

Well, let's see, you've been playing longer than I've been alive and you've never heard the phrase "lob toss"?
[ame="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=lob+toss&rlz=1R2HPIA_enUS350&aq=f&oq=&aqi="]lob toss - Google Search[/ame]

I agree with Todd. I've been running the Steeda for quite some time now, with no problems at all.

No one ever said it was a guarantee way to shatter your oil pump.


Let me turn it around and see if any of it clicks. If you were investing money, would you invest in the fund that has a 45% return, or the 35% return?.....(IE: higher chance of better return for your money?....WITH more risk)

 

[na svt]

Well, let's see, you've been playing longer than I've been alive and you've never heard the phrase "lob toss"?)

Never. We either lobbed or tossed the baseballs, but never both.

Let me turn it around and see if any of it clicks. If you were investing money, would you invest in the fund that has a 45% return, or the 35% return?.....(IE: higher chance of better return for your money?....WITH more risk)

Every mods carries some risk. The risk resulting from a high quality small diameter dampener is a small one. How many people do you know of on any of the forums experienced broken oil pump gears? I know of two in 5 years on the forums, one had a stock dampener and the other had piggyback style underdrive pulleys. I know of no one that has ruined a crankshaft with them either.

 

[ponygt65]

Never. We either lobbed or tossed the baseballs, but never both.

It's a term...like 'fast pitch', 'slow pitch softball', and 'fast pitch softball'. Apparently it's another one of those darn CA things. :lol:

Every mods carries some risk. The risk resulting from a high quality small diameter dampener is a small one. How many people do you know of on any of the forums experienced broken oil pump gears? I know of two in 5 years on the forums, one had a stock dampener and the other had piggyback style underdrive pulleys. I know of no one that has ruined a crankshaft with them either.

Every person has their own choice to make. Some think the risk isn't worth it, some don't think it matters. It's nothing more than getting information out there. If you remember i had the Steeda pulley set installed in my DSG. After I did, I 'heard' about it and researched it. After I went back and forth reading from both sides, I decided to have them taken off. It was my personal choice. I did not have the $$ to risk it.

And I doubt a catback or drop in filter carry any risk. :lol::beer:

 

[na svt]

It's a term...like 'fast pitch', 'slow pitch softball', and 'fast pitch softball'. Apparently it's another one of those darn CA things. :lol::

I dunno, I lived in California for 20 years and left only 7 years ago...

Every person has their own choice to make. Some think the risk isn't worth it, some don't think it matters.

...but is there a risk with the March and new Steeda dampeners?

 

[ponygt65]

I dunno, I lived in California for 20 years and left only 7 years ago...




...but is there a risk with the March and new Steeda dampeners?

I had the revised dampeners and still decided it wasn't worth the risk. The new ones had just come out (mid 04) and there wasn't any real feedback. Again, I personally wasn't willing to add 'that' risk to it. it had intake spacer, midpipe, cai, catback, and tune. I had an extended warranty on it. I chose not to put it on my Ab, because that car was blown and I wasn't willing to take the added risk on that either.