Military question - E7 or above for an answer.

[MPH5.0]

I have a Soldier who was told by our 1SG today that if he gets on profile tomorrow before the PT Test that he is going to flag him. Threatening that once he does that Soldier can't use his T/A, recieve awards, etc. I do realize if you are flagged under AR 600-8-2 that you can't recieve certain favorable actions, but it says no where in that regulation about flagging a Soldier because he's legitimately hurt and going on profile. No I could see if it was a Soldier that was malingering and bullshitting all the time, but this is my best Joe and he is good to go.
Just want to make sure before I go in Top's office that I got all my ducks in a row before I tell him he's wrong and can't do that. I have never heard of being able to do that and seen many 1SG's do some illegal things.

Thanks.

 

[RDJ]

you should get the mods to move this to the MILITARY forum.

 

[MPH5.0]

Didn't know there was one, thanks.

 

[heywaitfourme]

Though I did not make E-7 in the Army, it is my understanding that you can not flag an individual for failing a PT test due to a MEDICAL CONDITION. If he can prove, via the profile, it's a medical condition rendering him from passing, or even participating in, the PT test, I see no way 'Top' can flag him. If anything, his PT test should be put on hold until after his profile is no longer active. If he fails his PT test then, yes the flag, but not because he is on Profile.

Now, if he is getting on profile as a way around having to complete his "required" PT test, then yes...I'd throw a flag. But you explained that he is one of your better soldier, so I see no reason for a threat like this...but as you've said...I, too, have seem some very shady things happen in that office....

 

[R1der]

Hahaha hell no if the guy is hurt he is hurt the 1SG cant do shit about, the approving authority is above his pay grade

 

[FX4 SAPPER]

Hahaha hell no if the guy is hurt he is hurt the 1SG cant do shit about, the approving authority is above his pay grade

Yup. Besides a T cat in a profile is not grounds for flag. If he gets put on Permanent profile, which is highly unlikely if hes never been on one before, then it is possible to be flagged for promotion etc. Your 1sg only has the authority to suggest to the CO to initiate a flag. He himself cannot just put you on a flag just because of an injury. Also your Joe has 30 days from the date of profile expiration before he can take a pt test according to the AR i forget which one, which i am sure Top will see to it that he takes it the day after since hes bringing this issue up. Typical 1sg threats lol. Shit like this makes me not miss the Army. If he decides to pursue a flag, call IG. They will correct the issue. IG was on speed dial in my last unit. talk about jacked up mother ****ers.


Oh, and just to add, you might want to consult your FM on flags and profiles to be exactly sure if you are going to throw down. 1sg just care that everyone is doing the right thing so they dont have to hear it from the CO and SGM

 

[MPH5.0]

I just wanted to double check and get some other opinions. I am a SSG and never ever heard anything so stupid. This Soldier was on profile about 6 months ago for the same shoulder issue and he did the physical therapy and got better. Due to field time and other training commitments he couldn't take a PT test. Now 1SG wants him to take one and he strained his shoulder real bad and it just happens it happened a few days before a PT test.
Only thing AR 600-8-2 states is that you can flag a Soldier for failing a PT test, over weight, etc. This is what it says verbatim:

(1) Flags for APFT failure block promotion, reenlistment, and extension only.
(2) A flag is not initiated if the soldier has a limiting physical profile that specifically prohibits taking the APFT.
b. Weight control.
(1) Flags for weight control block only attendance at full-time civil or military schooling, promotion, awards and
decorations, assumption of command, and reenlistment or extension.
(2) Soldiers attending a civil or military school on the date of the flag will not be removed from such schooling.
(3) Commanders may approve reenlistments and extensions under certain medical conditions as advised by the
supporting total Army career counselor.
c. Reassignment.
(1) HQDA will reassign soldiers returned to military control from dropped from the rolls (DFR).
(2) Soldiers in receipt of HQDA reassignment instructions may depart when their case moves into the punishment
phase if the punishment does not require the soldier’s continued presence.
(3) Major oversea commanders approve intra-command reassignments.
(4) Installation commanders approve intra-installation reassignments.
(5) Flagged soldiers may be reassigned if—
(a) The flag is based on APFT failure.
(b) The flag is based on entry in the weight control program.
(c) The flag case is in the punishment phase with no restraints on liberty imposed by civil court, court-martial, or
Article 15.
(d) Reassignment is deemed necessary by installation or major overseas commanders (within their command) for the
maintenance of discipline, morale, and unit order.
d. Advance or excess leave.
(1) The General Court-Martial Convening Authority (GCMCA) may direct excess leave to soldiers sentenced by
court-martial to dismissal or a punitive discharge when the sentenced has not yet been approved.
(2) The GCMCA or designee may grant an indefinite period of excess leave to soldiers awaiting administrative
discharge in accordance with AR 600–8–10.
(3) Commanders may grant advance or excess leave when emergencies exist.
e. Unqualified resignation, discharge, or retirement.Flagged soldiers may submit requests for consideration by
HQDA.
f. Entry on AD or ADT.
(1) Flagged ARNG and U.S. Army Reserve (USAR) soldiers may not apply for AD or ADT.
(2) HQDA may direct involuntary AD or ADT for flagged ARNG and USAR soldiers.
g. Awards and decorations.Retirement awards and decorations for valor may be processed and presented to flagged
soldiers.
h. Erroneous flag will be declared void and of no effect.

 

[Duende]

Sounds like 1SG just has the ass and wants to bully a PT test out've the guy. Surprised he rolled over your opinion that way and just threatened. Well...not totally surprised, reminds me of one f'ing 1SG I had... You mother****er..

 

[203Cree]

Also your Joe has 30 days from the date of profile expiration before he can take a pt test according to the AR i forget which one, which i am sure Top will see to it that he takes it the day after since hes bringing this issue up.

Yes and no. If the profile is for more than 30 days, he has 90 days after the expiration date before he has to take a PT test.

If it were me in your shoes bro, I would personally take him to the doc. I would ask for X-rays, MRI's and whatever else is needed to make my case. I've had numerous issues with a Top trying to pull shit before as well, and I've found the more ammo you come at them with the faster they just shut the hell up.

You could always tell him that he's not actually in your chain of command and to just STFU, lol. That always makes em happy.

 

[FX4 SAPPER]

Yes and no. If the profile is for more than 30 days, he has 90 days after the expiration date before he has to take a PT test.

If it were me in your shoes bro, I would personally take him to the doc. I would ask for X-rays, MRI's and whatever else is needed to make my case. I've had numerous issues with a Top trying to pull shit before as well, and I've found the more ammo you come at them with the faster they just shut the hell up.

You could always tell him that he's not actually in your chain of command and to just STFU, lol. That always makes em happy.

Yeah i was just going off of what will probably happen. Most profiles are a week - 30 days for a non major injury from what ive encountered. I also dont think that this 1sg isnt in his COC but lol at your suggestion haha i havent seen that happen but wish i would!

 

[203Cree]

Yeah i was just going off of what will probably happen. Most profiles are a week - 30 days for a non major injury from what ive encountered. I also dont think that this 1sg isnt in his COC but lol at your suggestion haha i havent seen that happen but wish i would!

I had a lot of down time in Iraq, and I did a lot of reading.

The connection between the chain of command and the NCO
support channel is the senior NCO. Commanders issue orders through the
chain of command, but senior NCOs must know and understand the orders
to issue effective implementing instructions through the NCO support
channel. Although the first sergeant and command sergeant major are not
part of the formal chain of command, leaders should consult them on all
enlisted soldier matters and individual training.

It's effing hilarious. They ARE in your chain of concern, but if you want to go by the black and white they're not in your chain. Kinda makes em seem a bit less scary eh? :lol1:

 

[The Manalishi]

The 1SG sounds like a retard.

 

[Silver2003Cobra]

this is more of an Army question, not a military question.. since it dosn't apply to the Navy, (and I doubt any other branches of the service)..

 

[tankerman1981]

If the soldier is on profile there is no way he could flag the soldier..all he can do is reschedule the PT for that soldier... the soldier has the time on profile and then double the time as the profile to recover before he would be required to take one..ie.. if your profile is for 7 days.. you have the 7 day profile and then have 14 days of recovery after the profile...soo in reality in 3 weeks they could reschedule but most would just wait a month or so... TOP is just trying to push his weight around and most of the time with some people it works because they dont want to cause waves but as the NCO Creed states you know your soldiers and will place their needs above your own so I say call his bluff and I dont see anything that could happen other than maybe a pissed off TOP...lol

 

[MPH5.0]

Well he tried, and he failed. He layed into me for saying he was out of his mind for suggesting it. oh well. Thanks for all the input.

 

[Luckyeod28]

Whatever you do, don't be an ass about it. If he is your best guy then get him his profile and 1SG won't have a leg to stand on. At the same time, knowing that your right and sort of rubbing his nose in WILL come back to you at some point. Understand his point of view and how many worthless piles are in the Army and cut him some slack....and make sure that your soldier isn't flaggable for something else.

 

[TaraFirma]

might want to contact IG about this a$$hole too. He won't stop being like this just because he failed at flagging someone this time.

 

[usmcrebel]

this is more of an Army question, not a military question.. since it dosn't apply to the Navy, (and I doubt any other branches of the service)..

it applies for the Navy/ USMC as well....been there done that bro. they tried to flag me for the same thing and i have a degenerative nerve disorder...i LOL'd and got yelled at some more...If you are LOD/ LIMDU or whatever the different branches call it that says you can't do XYZ then no matter how much they yell ccream and threaten they aer still powerless to make you do whatever XYZ is.