Ok i brought my truck to the dealer cause i've been having some issues with my tranny, when i de-accelerate, it makes like a jerking feeling. I was told by some it may be the torque converter lockup is engaging and disengaging. Well the dealer took my truck for a ride and said it was fine other than it shifts really hard. Ok here's the deal tho, i had this tranny issue for awhile now , so i talked to a few people from this site and nloc, and they said maybe try to put in a FTVB to maybe get rid of the problem. So i did it last year and it didnt really do anything to help , it just made my shifts harder and more responsive. Ive had the valve body on for about 4 months and it runs great, but the jerking problem hasnt went away from the get go. The truck shifts fine and drives fine but now the dealer is saying its the valve body that is causing my problem even though i told them i had this problem looked at before by them and also before i put the FTVB in. So my question is could you please tell me for the dealer that this FTVB won't hurt my tranny or my truck and it's actually better for my truck so i can print this out for my dealer to prove to them that the problem is not the valve body and to look elsewhere for the problem Thanks guys! I already know its not the valve body i just need some back up from you guys.
Need some help/back up to prove dealer wrong
- Thread starter NeverEndn
- Start date
i would email the vendor you got the valve body from and have them put in their word to back up their product they sold you.
They wont believe a bunch of strangers just because they drive Ls. Sorry bud. Contact your vendor. That way they cant say anything.
You screwed yourself when you told them it's modded with the FTVB. You should take it out and then take it in for work. Printing this out won't do you any good either, the dealer will do anything to get out of a warranty claim.
Zurok said:
No i already talked to the Rep and he said he doesnt care if i mod my truck cause i know him good he is not going to void my warranty, but i just need some of your opinions so that i can show him that the Valve Body doesnt hurt the tranny!, warranty is not an issue i have my warranty weither i mod it or not , i just need some feedback Thanks!
The FTVB produces quicker and firmer shifts resulting in less wear on the internal clutches. This in return will result in extended life of the tranmission and adds a smile to everyones face 
.. Stan
.. Stan
NeverEndn said:
If this is the case why is he wanting opinions/facts from strangers and not taking your word for it? In a sense if he is requesting this info than he is sort of voiding or trying to void your warranty right there? You sound a little mixed up :shrug: ... Stan
Dealerships are STUPID!!! They know nothing about anything except that you modified your truck and that is the reason it's broke...They don't look at the fact you have been in there numerous times to get it looked at BEFORE you modded it...Now that it is modified, you're screwed...If they haven't fixed it by now...They aren't going to do shit about it..>Chalk this down as a loss.
Sorry and good luck
Sorry and good luck
NeverEndn said:
Of course! Its called verbal judo...he was only setting you up to get the information he needed.
Should have kept that information on the DL and not told anybody at the dealership.
Back to the problem...
Is your overdrive light flashing?
Thx Stewart!
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All you do is take it out and take it to another ford dealership!!! it works!! i know people that have done it before... Not me cuz mine is a 99 and i only had it for a year now...
I'D WIN said:
LOL...sorry bro, I can't resist.
I'm 100% certain you meant verbal. ;-)
Stewart
PS - NeverEndn, I don't mean to be a prick, but if you're truly naive enough to believe your rep doesn't care if you're modded or not, plus if you truly believe posting something like this here will help your cause, then Lord help ya, amigo.
Stewart
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Do a google search, "Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act" Basically the part that concerns a buyer of aftermarket automotive products is that a dealer or manufacturer cannot void or charge for a warranty service based on use of aftermarket products unless a failure is a DIRECT result of use of the aftermarket product and they will have to prove how. I know most read this and laff, but to tell you the truth, the Auto Manufacturs save a LOT of cash by denying warrenty work for after market parts to the vast majority who do not know the laws, then they do by fixing everything. So by only paying a setlement and fixing the few who do know the laws, and take them to court, they safe a shit ton of cash.
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K guys, for thank you for your help , but for the others i know the rep guy personally and he does not care about the mods i do to my truck he does not need this for his own amusment it is just for him to get a better understanding what i had added to my truck which would be the valve body. I basically need this to show him that the problem could be elsewhere and that the problem is not caused by the FTVB , other than that he doesnt care about the mod and is still going to work on the truck and try to fix the problem i am just dont want them to directly look at the FTVb as being the problem when i know its not , and so does the rep its only for the guy who will be working on it, my truck goes back in tomorrow. Put it this rep had an 04 Lightning come in with 6lb pulley chip and 75 shot of NOS and the guy ran 87 octane a blew his motor up and this Rep still warrantied the motor , yes the guy got a whole new motor, this rep is awesome!
If it sounds too good to be true, it is too good to be true... my .02 cents, Stan
http://www.chickenears.com/transmission_faq.htm
and from the man himself:
http://www.chickenears.com/accumulator.htm
Some guys use the term FTVB as a "generic" term for valve vody mods. Clarification (no disrespect intended): is your valve body by Gregg Evans, maker of the original FTVB- Factory Tech Valve Body). If not, then you technically do not have a FTVB.
and from the man himself:
http://www.chickenears.com/accumulator.htm
Some guys use the term FTVB as a "generic" term for valve vody mods. Clarification (no disrespect intended): is your valve body by Gregg Evans, maker of the original FTVB- Factory Tech Valve Body). If not, then you technically do not have a FTVB.
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LightningMAS
Banned
FTVB is badass!!! i love mine since the day i put it in..
Here is the info you seek:
Shift Kits, Line Mod Valves and Accumulators
By Gregg Evans
Developer of the Factory Tech Accumulator
I see a lot of questions about Shift Kits, Line Modulator Boost Valves and Accumulators. As a transmission repairman I'd like to share my thoughts on the subject.
What most people are looking for in transmission strategy is a quicker, firmer shift, or more technically a shorter shift duration. Shift duration is how long it takes for a shift to occur, or the amount of time that the clutches are slipping. A shorter shift duration has a performance feel, and generally is better for the clutches, because the wear on the plates happens during this slip. Shortening duration also will reduce heat, which is responsible for most automatic transmission failures. The way to reduce shift duration is to increase the engagement pressure of fluid to the clutch during the shift.
One way to increase pressure in an electronically controlled automatic is to have the PCM (or an aftermarket chip) command the EPC (electronic Pressure Control Solenoid) to increase pressure. Doing this will give the desired result, but at a cost. Many systems could in theory raise and maintain Line Pressure at the expense of either the Lubrication circuit or overworking the pump assembly. By the time symptoms appear of the damage this can do, the damage is done and the repairs can be very expensive. If the lube circuit is starved in order to maintain pressure to the accumulator, the first obvious indication could be when the output shaft welds itself to the rear case bushing, a catastrophic failure that would essentially destroy the transmission. If you have a chip that raises Line Pressure above the factory settings, make sure your tuner has made provisions to avoid this. Also, some transmissions that have used software to raise Line Pressure have shown longer term (12-18 months) damage to the pump assembly caused by the extra load placed on the pump. --
The alternative to raising Line Pressure with software is to use a mechanical 'shift kit' to raise Modulated Pressure or more simply, a set of valves and springs in the accumulator valve body. The term 'Shift Kit' is a trademark of a transmission aftermarket company, so I avoid using it when I can. Since the accumulator is hydraulically 'downstream' of the EPC, a mechanical shift kit does not interrupt any lubrication failsafes and since it is using modulated pressure boost (through the Line Modulator Boost Valve) it does not place any additional load on the pump. I have seen 3 basic variations of mechanical shift improvers, a 'Line Pressure Mod Valve' ($89-$99), a 3 springs and a valve (about $150, basically a Line Mod Valve and 3 additional springs) and a full accumulator ($225, a Line mod valve, springs, lower control springs and lower control valves installed into a new or rebuilt accumulator valve body). I'm not going to be coy about it, I designed, build and indirectly sell the Factory Tech Accumulator, so instead of trying to act neutral (I'm not) Ill tell you why I think the kit I build is a better kit, a better value and better for your transmission.-
First, an accumulator is a fairly straightforward assembly. In the 4R100, there are 3 shift bores, and 1 line pressure/throttle bore. The 3 shift bores are identical, and different springs are set in them to control the reaction of the accumulator piston to hydraulic pressure, this reaction translates into shift duration on the shift controlled by that bore. All of the bores are fed pressure by the Line Modulator Boost Valve, which reacts to the Throttle Valve, controlling this circuit boosts line pressure into all of the shift bores. If you change the Line Modulator Boost Valve and raise line pressure throughout the body, the individual shift bores are no longer 'tuned' properly and the reaction in the shift bores will be out of calibration for the elevated line pressure. For this reason, you need to recalibrate the shift bores, both in the top circuit (above the accumulator piston) and below (the 321-310 circuit). Also, in the 2001 model Lightings, I have found that increased pressure in the lower circuits caused the 321 valves to 'side load' or bind up due to asymmetric application of hydraulic pressure during the shift, resulting in a 'bang shift'. A Line Mod valve fails to address these conditions. My last (but not least) concern with a Line Mod valve is cost; I don't think you get much bang for the buck if you pay $89 for a Line Modulator Boost Valve. I've been very upfront about this, I use a part very similar to this as part of the Factory Tech/PSP Accumulator. In many ways, I think the part I use is higher quality, my valve and sleeve are made from stainless steel and most of the other ones I see have aluminum sleeves. This can cause problems in the long run too, as the steel valve cycles though an aluminum sleeve, the sleeve wears faster than the valve and after a time this results in pressure loss and sloppy shifts, the condition the part is designed to correct. Also, unlike most of the parts I have personally seen, I use an O-Ring seal to prevent pressure leaking out of the circuit. ----
The second popular option is the 3 springs and a valve shift kits. Using this type of kit recalibrates the upper circuits to the elevated line pressure, but still ignores the side loading of the lower control valves. The kit of this type that I have seen also uses an aluminum sleeve/steel valve, and again, the cost is high, for the extra $50 give or take, you get 3 springs and more detailed instructions.-
For the Factory Tech Accumulator Shift Kit, I start with a new Accumulator Valve body, Genuine Ford Part (F81Z-7G422-AA, List Price at your dealer is $165 +/-), I add a Line Modulator Boost Valve (about $20), recalibrate the upper circuit with different springs ($12) and upgrade the lower circuit springs and use a valve designed to cycle more freely in the bore to prevent both side loading and binding. (I won't tell you the price, a guy has to have a few secrets). My lower circuit '310' valve is designed to preload the clutch at less than line pressure, taking the variability out of the shift control. Although it looks very much like the kits available elsewhere, the control of the shift is much more precisely controlled this way, accounting for the much better performance you get from a Factory Tech Accumulator. My point is, I've heard from quite few people who bought the other kits and asked themselves (and me) "Is this it?" I paid $XXXX for this? I honestly hope that no-one ever got one of my kits and asked that question. The fact is, the final retail price of the Factory Tech Accumulator is less than the list price of the components that go into it, and my distributors makes a profit, too. -
And finally, I have my reputation. Read the "moods" on bulletin boards to see who my customers are, do a search for Factory Tech, and after you see who they are, E-Mail them and ask how they like the kit. As of this writing, I've sold or given away (for the first year I made them for people I work and didn't even charge them above what I paid for parts) about 2000 accumulators and exactly one customer has let me know he wasn't satisfied, and in the end I even satisfied him. (he had installation issues, after the part was in right, he loved it). When the '01 Lightings first came out, the side loading issues on the lower circuit became evident, and I replaced 2 units after I redesigned the accumulator. Other than these cases, I know of NO customers who have had complaints about my parts. Just consider this, if you buy XXX parts, and have a problem, what's the chance of you getting the home number of the guy who designed it? If you bought it used off of E-Bay? If you have one of my parts and you have a problem, Ill fix it. That means if it needs to be replaced, you get a new one, no matter where you got it, it means that if you have a question about installation or performance that you cant get a good answer to, you can get in touch with me and if I need to talk to you to make it clear, Ill send you my home number, or call you. There is no-one selling parts for Lightnings that has built more 4R100s than me, I know this box and I stand behind what I build, because I want to sell you that Diesel Monster Box when you want it, when you're ready for it, not when you grenade the tranny and need it.-
Thanks,
- Gregg Evans-
Shift Kits, Line Mod Valves and Accumulators
By Gregg Evans
Developer of the Factory Tech Accumulator
I see a lot of questions about Shift Kits, Line Modulator Boost Valves and Accumulators. As a transmission repairman I'd like to share my thoughts on the subject.
What most people are looking for in transmission strategy is a quicker, firmer shift, or more technically a shorter shift duration. Shift duration is how long it takes for a shift to occur, or the amount of time that the clutches are slipping. A shorter shift duration has a performance feel, and generally is better for the clutches, because the wear on the plates happens during this slip. Shortening duration also will reduce heat, which is responsible for most automatic transmission failures. The way to reduce shift duration is to increase the engagement pressure of fluid to the clutch during the shift.
One way to increase pressure in an electronically controlled automatic is to have the PCM (or an aftermarket chip) command the EPC (electronic Pressure Control Solenoid) to increase pressure. Doing this will give the desired result, but at a cost. Many systems could in theory raise and maintain Line Pressure at the expense of either the Lubrication circuit or overworking the pump assembly. By the time symptoms appear of the damage this can do, the damage is done and the repairs can be very expensive. If the lube circuit is starved in order to maintain pressure to the accumulator, the first obvious indication could be when the output shaft welds itself to the rear case bushing, a catastrophic failure that would essentially destroy the transmission. If you have a chip that raises Line Pressure above the factory settings, make sure your tuner has made provisions to avoid this. Also, some transmissions that have used software to raise Line Pressure have shown longer term (12-18 months) damage to the pump assembly caused by the extra load placed on the pump. --
The alternative to raising Line Pressure with software is to use a mechanical 'shift kit' to raise Modulated Pressure or more simply, a set of valves and springs in the accumulator valve body. The term 'Shift Kit' is a trademark of a transmission aftermarket company, so I avoid using it when I can. Since the accumulator is hydraulically 'downstream' of the EPC, a mechanical shift kit does not interrupt any lubrication failsafes and since it is using modulated pressure boost (through the Line Modulator Boost Valve) it does not place any additional load on the pump. I have seen 3 basic variations of mechanical shift improvers, a 'Line Pressure Mod Valve' ($89-$99), a 3 springs and a valve (about $150, basically a Line Mod Valve and 3 additional springs) and a full accumulator ($225, a Line mod valve, springs, lower control springs and lower control valves installed into a new or rebuilt accumulator valve body). I'm not going to be coy about it, I designed, build and indirectly sell the Factory Tech Accumulator, so instead of trying to act neutral (I'm not) Ill tell you why I think the kit I build is a better kit, a better value and better for your transmission.-
First, an accumulator is a fairly straightforward assembly. In the 4R100, there are 3 shift bores, and 1 line pressure/throttle bore. The 3 shift bores are identical, and different springs are set in them to control the reaction of the accumulator piston to hydraulic pressure, this reaction translates into shift duration on the shift controlled by that bore. All of the bores are fed pressure by the Line Modulator Boost Valve, which reacts to the Throttle Valve, controlling this circuit boosts line pressure into all of the shift bores. If you change the Line Modulator Boost Valve and raise line pressure throughout the body, the individual shift bores are no longer 'tuned' properly and the reaction in the shift bores will be out of calibration for the elevated line pressure. For this reason, you need to recalibrate the shift bores, both in the top circuit (above the accumulator piston) and below (the 321-310 circuit). Also, in the 2001 model Lightings, I have found that increased pressure in the lower circuits caused the 321 valves to 'side load' or bind up due to asymmetric application of hydraulic pressure during the shift, resulting in a 'bang shift'. A Line Mod valve fails to address these conditions. My last (but not least) concern with a Line Mod valve is cost; I don't think you get much bang for the buck if you pay $89 for a Line Modulator Boost Valve. I've been very upfront about this, I use a part very similar to this as part of the Factory Tech/PSP Accumulator. In many ways, I think the part I use is higher quality, my valve and sleeve are made from stainless steel and most of the other ones I see have aluminum sleeves. This can cause problems in the long run too, as the steel valve cycles though an aluminum sleeve, the sleeve wears faster than the valve and after a time this results in pressure loss and sloppy shifts, the condition the part is designed to correct. Also, unlike most of the parts I have personally seen, I use an O-Ring seal to prevent pressure leaking out of the circuit. ----
The second popular option is the 3 springs and a valve shift kits. Using this type of kit recalibrates the upper circuits to the elevated line pressure, but still ignores the side loading of the lower control valves. The kit of this type that I have seen also uses an aluminum sleeve/steel valve, and again, the cost is high, for the extra $50 give or take, you get 3 springs and more detailed instructions.-
For the Factory Tech Accumulator Shift Kit, I start with a new Accumulator Valve body, Genuine Ford Part (F81Z-7G422-AA, List Price at your dealer is $165 +/-), I add a Line Modulator Boost Valve (about $20), recalibrate the upper circuit with different springs ($12) and upgrade the lower circuit springs and use a valve designed to cycle more freely in the bore to prevent both side loading and binding. (I won't tell you the price, a guy has to have a few secrets). My lower circuit '310' valve is designed to preload the clutch at less than line pressure, taking the variability out of the shift control. Although it looks very much like the kits available elsewhere, the control of the shift is much more precisely controlled this way, accounting for the much better performance you get from a Factory Tech Accumulator. My point is, I've heard from quite few people who bought the other kits and asked themselves (and me) "Is this it?" I paid $XXXX for this? I honestly hope that no-one ever got one of my kits and asked that question. The fact is, the final retail price of the Factory Tech Accumulator is less than the list price of the components that go into it, and my distributors makes a profit, too. -
And finally, I have my reputation. Read the "moods" on bulletin boards to see who my customers are, do a search for Factory Tech, and after you see who they are, E-Mail them and ask how they like the kit. As of this writing, I've sold or given away (for the first year I made them for people I work and didn't even charge them above what I paid for parts) about 2000 accumulators and exactly one customer has let me know he wasn't satisfied, and in the end I even satisfied him. (he had installation issues, after the part was in right, he loved it). When the '01 Lightings first came out, the side loading issues on the lower circuit became evident, and I replaced 2 units after I redesigned the accumulator. Other than these cases, I know of NO customers who have had complaints about my parts. Just consider this, if you buy XXX parts, and have a problem, what's the chance of you getting the home number of the guy who designed it? If you bought it used off of E-Bay? If you have one of my parts and you have a problem, Ill fix it. That means if it needs to be replaced, you get a new one, no matter where you got it, it means that if you have a question about installation or performance that you cant get a good answer to, you can get in touch with me and if I need to talk to you to make it clear, Ill send you my home number, or call you. There is no-one selling parts for Lightnings that has built more 4R100s than me, I know this box and I stand behind what I build, because I want to sell you that Diesel Monster Box when you want it, when you're ready for it, not when you grenade the tranny and need it.-
Thanks,
- Gregg Evans-
Yes it is from Greg Evans at Factory Tech, it has the name and his signature on the valve body. Thanks guys for your help appreciate it!
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